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CarryTheG14

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I'm very weary of his age and lack of production last year.

The hope is this system fits him, and he benefits with Parsons, LVN, and Wyatt.

I'll take this gamble as well
 

milani

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Not necessarily.
Gone: Gary, 28; Doubs, 26; Hobbs, 27; Jenkins, 30, R. Walker, 26.
FA Signed: Hargrave, 33; Franklin, 30; Moore, 25; St. Juste, 28.
Open roster spots will be filled with 20-22yr olds so it's possible the overall team age will still be youngest 3 or 5.
A few teams were close to us. Maybe we get an older backup QB to complement the maturity. And McManus is still on the roster for now.
 
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I'm very weary of his age and lack of production last year.

The hope is this system fits him, and he benefits with Parsons, LVN, and Wyatt.

I'll take this gamble as well
Age ok.. but Lack of production ??

Hargrave was #2 in Sacks (3.5) on the DL and had the #2 Lowest missed tackle rate (5.3%) on the Roster behind Blake Cashman (5.1%) he had arguably his #4 best season across his 10 year career.

In 2025 Hargrave played 537 snaps and 1 less game than Clark. Yet Hargrave outproduced Kenny Clark (748 snaps)

The Vikings Defense ranked
#7 in points allowed
#3 in yards per play allowed
#6 TIED Rushing yards allowed (KC, Saints, Houston)

#10 PFF graded DL in 2025
led by Jonathan Greenard at OLB. Hargrave wasn’t Probowl level but more that consistent Kenny Clark type player.
 
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adambr2

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Cox back. 1 year for 2.5 mil.

I'm actually really fine with the group even with Parsons' injury.

Cox looked real good at the end of the year
LVN- looked really good when healthy
Sorrell- looked very good as a rookie
Oliver has juice
Maybe I’m just misremembering but it felt to me like our pass rush was nonexistent after Parsons went down.
 
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Maybe I’m just misremembering but it felt to me like our pass rush was nonexistent after Parsons went down.
I do know that Cox Jr didn’t play normal stats until week 18 Minnesota.
Here are Cox Jr stats in his final 7 games of 2024 and Week 18 where he returned FT (48 snaps). I’m only using games where he had at least 20 snaps as he worked back from a season injury and played sparingly Week 16, 17 and had like 4 snaps in postseason.

8 contests
10 QB hits
5 Sacks
17 Tackles 10 Solo
6 TFL (Elite 35.3% rate!)

What’s incredible is he did this that with only 1 of 8 games logging more than 29 snaps. Week 19 MN he logged 48 which is his career High. Sure enough.. he got a Sack, TFL and 3 QB HITS. T

Here’s his game snap counts for the above production for Cox Jr.
22, 22, 21, 20, 20, 26, 29, 48

So that’s essentially 3 games worth of playing time. That’s legit

That would be pacing 17 games playing limited Part time or 26 snaps per game. Here’s his pace …

11 Sacks
21 QB hits
36 Tackles 22 Solo
13 TFL
 
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In other news. In the last couple of days the Lions released their LT, Taylor Decker (10 year vet) and now DT, Josh Paschal is released.
Both had missed time with back injuries and Decker had even considered retiring. I’m not privy to the condition of either but he’s been Goffs blindside since arriving in Detroit. That’s a RD1 and RD2 who leave Detroit. Decker was a Probowl LT in 2024, but fought through some injuries last year.

The Bears did acquire #60 overall from Buffalo for the trade of DJ Moore. However No North team outside of GB is schedule to see any compensatory selection in 2026 other than us. Currently OTC is showing a
4th Willis
4th Romeo
5th Quay
* Rasheed Walker ??

That number might adjust as more contracts get added and help the average. With the abundance of medium to larger contracts Anyone under $11mil annual is out of the formula, such as Enagbare. That number could still rise and put Quay into 6th RD or Romeo into 5th Round status depending. Any 1 or 2 Players like Haasan Reddich, Aaron Rodgers, Joel Bitonio, Jonah Williams or Raheed Walker.

Haasan Redditch (misspell to avoid deletion) should be a focus. He played under Rich Gannon also. He’s fallen off a cliff but perhaps a 1yr prove it deal would get him on track.
 
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CarryTheG14

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Age ok.. but Lack of production ??

Hargrave was #2 in Sacks (3.5) on the DL and had the #2 Lowest missed tackle rate (5.3%) on the Roster behind Blake Cashman (5.1%) he had arguably his #4 best season across his 10 year career.

In 2025 Hargrave played 537 snaps and 1 less game than Clark. Yet Hargrave outproduced Kenny Clark (748 snaps)

The Vikings Defense ranked
#7 in points allowed
#3 in yards per play allowed
#6 TIED Rushing yards allowed (KC, Saints, Houston)

#10 PFF graded DL in 2025
led by Jonathan Greenard at OLB. Hargrave wasn’t Probowl level but more that consistent Kenny Clark type player.
He is definitely an upgrade from what we got. I generally am weary of older players who have regressed from the prior year. Hopefully it's just scheme related where he was asked to take up space and blockers. I hope that's the case. Love the signing, but it comes with risk.
 

CarryTheG14

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Maybe I’m just misremembering but it felt to me like our pass rush was nonexistent after Parsons went down.
You're not wrong at all.

I truly believe Gary is an addition by subtraction. He was DREADFUL the 2nd half of the year.

I'm probably one of the biggest LVN guys you'll find. I really liked what I saw from him, and I would take a risk and extend him before the blowup. He just needs to stay healthy.

I'm also really excited for Sorrell, he looked like a player. Year 2, we'll learn a lot.

Cox looked good in his limited opportunities, maybe he puts it together.

I don't think I've ever seen Oliver play but hear he has a lot of athletic traits you want who fell due to injury. That sounds like a good lottery pick for me.
 

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Maybe I’m just misremembering but it felt to me like our pass rush was nonexistent after Parsons went down.

Two things can be true - that the likes of LVN and others were absolutely looking better, LVN looks freaking amazing a few of the last couple games.... AND pass rush dropped after Parsons went down.

However, of course it did. You're talking about a guy that seems to have two motors inside his body and was averaging just hsy of 6 pressures a game....a game....

Guys over 5.5: Aidan Hutchinson / Josh Hines-Allen and Micah Parsons

Myles was 4.94
Verse 4.7
 

CarryTheG14

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He is definitely an upgrade from what we got. I generally am weary of older players who have regressed from the prior year. Hopefully it's just scheme related where he was asked to take up space and blockers. I hope that's the case. Love the signing, but it comes with risk.
Listening to some people it seems like his pass rush win percentage was still pretty high. Gannon knows how to use him best, so lets do it. Get a NT or two and oyu gotta feel good about the D-line now. Really good. Lot of juice
 

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Two things can be true - that the likes of LVN and others were absolutely looking better, LVN looks freaking amazing a few of the last couple games.... AND pass rush dropped after Parsons went down.

However, of course it did. You're talking about a guy that seems to have two motors inside his body and was averaging just hsy of 6 pressures a game....a game....

Guys over 5.5: Aidan Hutchinson / Josh Hines-Allen and Micah Parsons

Myles was 4.94
Verse 4.7
Well yes, you expect a drop off after Parsons, for sure. But there’s a difference between that and being non-existent.

Hopefully as @CarryTheG14 mentioned though, other guys who will see more opportunities without Gary here will give us an addition by subtraction boost.

One thing I struggle with is trying to understand why Gary could look so good in the first half and so bad in the second. Part of it can be attributed to Parsons but his drop off started before that.

Not that it is our problem anymore but it was disappointing. It looked early on like the Parsons addition was going to really unlock all the other pass rushers.
 

CarryTheG14

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Well yes, you expect a drop off after Parsons, for sure. But there’s a difference between that and being non-existent.

Hopefully as @CarryTheG14 mentioned though, other guys who will see more opportunities without Gary here will give us an addition by subtraction boost.

One thing I struggle with is trying to understand why Gary could look so good in the first half and so bad in the second. Part of it can be attributed to Parsons but his drop off started before that.

Not that it is our problem anymore but it was disappointing. It looked early on like the Parsons addition was going to really unlock all the other pass rushers.
It really is weird. The hustle/urgency is what was so alarming. He doesn't seem like that kinda guy who doesn't give it his all. Maybe that athleticism is just gone.
 

tynimiller

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Well yes, you expect a drop off after Parsons, for sure. But there’s a difference between that and being non-existent.

Hopefully as @CarryTheG14 mentioned though, other guys who will see more opportunities without Gary here will give us an addition by subtraction boost.

One thing I struggle with is trying to understand why Gary could look so good in the first half and so bad in the second. Part of it can be attributed to Parsons but his drop off started before that.

Not that it is our problem anymore but it was disappointing. It looked early on like the Parsons addition was going to really unlock all the other pass rushers.

I actually felt Gary looked quite consistent during the year, which was a shell of himself and continued regression of his play, albeit still good relative to a lot of guys on rosters for sure.

So Gary averaged 3.53 pressures a game for the season + wildcard (60 total out of 17 games)

His pressures per game from Week 1 to WC are below:

5
4
4
0
4
4
5
3
2
2
4
1
4
5
4
3
6

His pressure production at least seemed quite consistent.

Gary still has immense value (depending on how one defines immense) but he is no longer a game wrecker in the pass rush category...still quite good relative to his counterparts but not the gamechanger level of money that his contract indicates he should be.
 

tynimiller

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It really is weird. The hustle/urgency is what was so alarming. He doesn't seem like that kinda guy who doesn't give it his all. Maybe that athleticism is just gone.

I plant my flag in two areas and just guessing:

- Conditioning
- Body (he has never looked the same since his injury...and seems to be compounding worse each year)
 
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It really is weird. The hustle/urgency is what was so alarming. He doesn't seem like that kinda guy who doesn't give it his all. Maybe that athleticism is just gone.
I think you’re talking Gary? As others mentioned there’s at minimum some mild concern about a drop off in Sacks. He is more regular in Pressures. Yet the bigger issue is his contract was exploding as they often do.
IMO Dallas did ok at his $19.5? annual number. IMO Gary’s play is more in line with $16-18mil area, but I understand $19m that’s just a cost of acquiring a player in 2026. I’m really ok with this one because I think our depth isn’t far behind Gary and he’s not done yet but he’s also not getting younger. Plus the RD4 kickback is compelling. I often say maybe a RD6 or pick swap for first rights over another would be team vying for his services. Yet a 4th and near $11Mil? its an incredible time to shake him imo. Lol

It’s weird how 1 player gets outright cut and another similar scenario nets a RD4 selection. It’s just like feast or famine trying to trade a player.
 

CarryTheG14

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I plant my flag in two areas and just guessing:

- Conditioning
- Body (he has never looked the same since his injury...and seems to be compounding worse each year)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he explode when he came back from his injury?

I think you’re talking Gary? As others mentioned there’s at minimum some mild concern about a drop off in Sacks. He is more regular in Pressures. Yet the bigger issue is his contract was exploding as they often do.
IMO Dallas did ok at his $19.5? annual number. IMO Gary’s play is more in line with $16-18mil area, but I understand $19m that’s just a cost of acquiring a player in 2026. I’m really ok with this one because I think our depth isn’t far behind Gary and he’s not done yet but he’s also not getting younger. Plus the RD4 kickback is compelling. I often say maybe a RD6 or pick swap for first rights over other teams. Yet a 4th and near $11Mil? its an incredible time to shake him imo. Lol
How was his pressures after Parsons went down? Outside of him being slow, I don't remember seeing Gary getting many.

His money is way too much for who he is, but I think there is a real possibility that his play has fell off a cliff.

I'm willing to bet LVN AND Sorrell are better than him next year.
 
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I actually felt Gary looked quite consistent during the year, which was a shell of himself and continued regression of his play, albeit still good relative to a lot of guys on rosters for sure.

So Gary averaged 3.53 pressures a game for the season + wildcard (60 total out of 17 games)

His pressures per game from Week 1 to WC are below:

5
4
4
0
4
4
5
3
2
2
4
1
4
5
4
3
6

His pressure production at least seemed quite consistent.

Gary still has immense value (depending on how one defines immense) but he is no longer a game wrecker in the pass rush category...still quite good relative to his counterparts but not the gamechanger level of money that his contract indicates he should be.
Good format on the pressures or makes it easy on the eyes.

I always saw some Edge as pure Pass Rushers while others are more Well Rounded players. I see Hendrickson and Crosby as that respectively, but are more top notch examples than Rashan. Not suggesting Gary is either but he falls more under the “poor man’s” version of Maxx Crosby. Gary isn’t a game wrecker like Crosby, but he’s well rounded. He’s got bend, he’s got Bull, he’s got hand technique, but he also does a really nice job of being patient and setting an Edge and you’ll rarely beat him outside. In the mold of a Preston Smith style player. Yet those guys don’t normally demand Top $$ even in their prime. In today’s market that’s the $11-$19 annual player. Gary falls square in that realm. No way do you pay him $24Mil annual and if I’m not mistaken that inflated deal gave him an inflated $ego$ concerning his monetary value and an inflated Cap hit on top of it.
Again, Dallas overpaid a smidge but they’re getting closer in line with his market. He’s worth a 2yr $35-$36Mil and Dallas took on 2yr $41.5mil I believe?
 

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I think we are doing good with the players we are letting go. I think next year should be our big year if we use money now to extend the contracts that we need to do with an eye towards having cash next year for free agents. And also draft well. And I hope we get rid of the idea that rookies shouldn't play. I like the Hargrave move. I'm no expert on him but it seems I heard his name too often when we played against him.
 

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This is a bit of a tangent, but to me this suggests that not all pressures are "created equal" and there really probably could be a benefit to some sort of more advanced metric that tries to quantify the "danger" of a given pressure.

In the case of Gary, as illustrated...his total pressures remained fairly consistent over the course of the season even when Parsons went out. But what is interesting to me is that his production dropped BEFORE Parsons was gone.

For the first 8 weeks of the season Gary averaged ~3.4 combined tackles, ~1.9 solo tackles, and just under 1 TFL per game. He had 7.5 sacks along with that.
For the back half of the season... that plummeted to 2.25 combined tackles, 1.25 solo tackles, and ZERO tackles for loss or sacks week 8 or later.

Generally you would expect to see either A.) a pronounced improvement in performance, benefitting from playing alongside an addition like Parsons or B.) a steep decline coinciding with Parsons' injury but we didn't really definitively get either one. Gary saw a modest boost with Parsons added but not a huge one, and again his dropoff occurred well before Parsons went out injured. Micah didn't get injured until the Denver game, which means there'd still been 6 games in a row in which Gary didn't log a single TFL or sack in spite of relatively decent and consistent pressure production. Again this suggests to me that not all pressures are equal and not every pressure is a "dangerous" one (and it wasn't really a case of "freeing other guys up" - sometimes you might see a guy create pressures that others benefit from even if they don't log the production themselves. That didn't happen in this case; total team sack/TFL production did not improve or remain consistent tracking with Gary's dropoff either).

Of course I'm not saying we disregard pressures entirely, I'd rather have a guy who is generating them rather than not, but this is in part why for me they are a very, very limited/incomplete way to assess a player's impact. Gary's sustained pressure rate did not really benefit him, nor did it particularly benefit the team, nor did it allow him to step up when Parsons went down. Yes, production numbers themselves also don't tell the whole story - you can log tackles/stats that aren't particularly meaningful/impactful, OR have a big impact that doesn't always get you on the stat sheet, but by the same measure IMO you can log a lot of "empty" pressures too
 
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I think we are doing good with the players we are letting go. I think next year should be our big year if we use money now to extend the contracts that we need to do with an eye towards having cash next year for free agents. And also draft well. And I hope we get rid of the idea that rookies shouldn't play. I like the Hargrave move. I'm no expert on him but it seems I heard his name too often when we played against him.
I think similar on playing time, although as someone (Tyni?) pointed out recently, we actually have increased playing time for Rookies over past years. Obviously there’s some exceptions like Golden or Belton or even Morgan at the top and they get all the focus. Some of that was drafting position overlap to be prepared for? … today!
Overall we’ve got a pretty good hit rate on playing time. Quay, Wyatt, Cooper, Evan, Brooks, Kraft, Doubs, Watson etc.

On that note. In some years I would like to scratch projection players until Day 3. Occasionally plug a RD1 or RD2 with a high floor player that can pretty much start yesterday. Yet might have some risk not being super duper high upside. Using #52 this year I’d like to go after an athlete who we can plug n play without great concern. I wouldn’t even be opposed to using #84 overall and packaging a 2027 5th Rounder etc to move up earlier and get a pair that fit that bill. Especially if a player we have graded #50 (Ponds!) overall slips out of RD2 and it’s a really good CB or DT or Edge.
 
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tynimiller

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he explode when he came back from his injury?


How was his pressures after Parsons went down? Outside of him being slow, I don't remember seeing Gary getting many.

His money is way too much for who he is, but I think there is a real possibility that his play has fell off a cliff.

I'm willing to bet LVN AND Sorrell are better than him next year.

I pasted his week by week in order pressure numbers. His numbers did not drop actually and arguably rose just slightly.
 
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