2022 Salary Cap Riddle/Thread/Discussion

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tynimiller

tynimiller

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Not a fan of Lock and his contract #. Also, tag and trade DA (if it can be done) was an assumption in what I shared. Moves to make it possible under the cap would be needed but I suspect could work. If even, trade one, knowing you will tag and trade the other in essentially the same deal. Trading 12 means you could tag 17 I suspect... so... work out the process. If that is happening under good terms, suspect 12, 17 and DEN would oblige. And the Pack gets their picks. I'd rather have Carrol, the picks, and Mariota on a prove it than Lock.

There is zero chance Gute wastes valuable draft equity and fa money to have three potential starting QBs. If we see Rodgers leave you will give keys to Love and have a cheaper veteran back up merely as a stop gap should love get injured or he truly suck worse that anyone can predict.
 

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There is zero chance Gute wastes valuable draft equity and fa money to have three potential starting QBs. If we see Rodgers leave you will give keys to Love and have a cheaper veteran back up merely as a stop gap should love get injured or he truly suck worse that anyone can predict.
You are likely correct, though, IMHO, that would be a yuuuge mistake. At no time in his college nor pro career has he shown smarts, the ability to throw an accurate ball, nor the 'it' factor. Time to admit the mistake now and correct it, if we move on from 12 and 17.
 
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tynimiller

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You are likely correct, though, IMHO, that would be a yuuuge mistake. At no time in his college nor pro career has he shown smarts, the ability to throw an accurate ball, nor the 'it' factor. Time to admit the mistake now and correct it, if we move on from 12 and 17.
no one knows what type of NFL QB he is yet. Those that know the best would be the staff, and if they know he has no chance we will know well before draft ends and see love released or cut or traded. I’d bet a ton against that happening.
 

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no one knows what type of NFL QB he is yet. Those that know the best would be the staff, and if they know he has no chance we will know well before draft ends and see love released or cut or traded. I’d bet a ton against that happening.
How many good qbs are there? Anything in his past that gives you confidence Love is 'it?' None for me. Let's get better, if we can't keep 12.
 

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Not a fan of Lock and his contract #. Also, tag and trade DA (if it can be done) was an assumption in what I shared. Moves to make it possible under the cap would be needed but I suspect could work. If even, trade one, knowing you will tag and trade the other in essentially the same deal. Trading 12 means you could tag 17 I suspect... so... work out the process. If that is happening under good terms, suspect 12, 17 and DEN would oblige. And the Pack gets their picks. I'd rather have Carrol, the picks, and Mariota on a prove it than Lock.
I have read the QB class this year is underwhelming. In that case, skip the seasoned vet, skip the QB gamble. Take one of the 2nds you get (or lower) and throw it at Baltimore for sign and trade for Huntley. Or sign someone like Mitch turd biscuit for a look see while evaluating Love.
 

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I have read the QB class this year is underwhelming. In that case, skip the seasoned vet, skip the QB gamble. Take one of the 2nds you get (or lower) and throw it at Baltimore for sign and trade for Huntley. Or sign someone like Mitch turd biscuit for a look see while evaluating Love.
I'd kinda like to see that just to watch the internet explode.
 

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I'd kinda like to see that just to watch the internet explode.
Like my head did when I saw his name? ;) Why do some think Mitch Trubisky has shown anything more than Love has, at this point? Trubisky has shown he makes 1 read, looks to run & or throws a ball up for grabs to his tallest receiver. No thanks.
 

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I have read the QB class this year is underwhelming. In that case, skip the seasoned vet, skip the QB gamble. Take one of the 2nds you get (or lower) and throw it at Baltimore for sign and trade for Huntley. Or sign someone like Mitch turd biscuit for a look see while evaluating Love.
It's a stretch but if we could get Huntley for a 2nd that we'd get in a trade for Rodgers, that would include an additional 1, 2 (LAR) 2, and next year's 1 from DEN... that would be compelling. Not likely but, certainly interesting to ponder. Not sure we are able to keep Adams or if he'd want to... a trade would mean additional cap room and more picks...
 

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Not that I would want to get rid of Jaire, but if you can trade him and get great value in the deal, it sure is better than not being able to resign him after next season.

I don't think it would sit well with Rodgers, but if the Packers find themselves not being able to resign Davante, a similar principle might apply. Tag him and trade him. Problem is, if you tag him, I think you have to clear the cap space first?
At some moment you need to spend $ on elite (esp young) talent. If you are trading 12 - and even 17 - you need $ to sign and extend Jaire and others. It'd be a huge mistake to trade 12 and then also Jaire, who is a cornerstone player for the future. Only reason you'd trade him? If his injury is bad enough that he will have trouble tackling in the future - then you get what you can for him. If you go the route of trading 12, 17 and Jaire, then you have no locker room chemistry, no belief the Packers are in it, everyone thinks they will be traded. This is a team that if they do run it back with 12, is a contender. Even without, they could be with their OL, run game, and D.
 

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At some moment you need to spend $ on elite (esp young) talent. If you are trading 12 - and even 17 - you need $ to sign and extend Jaire and others. It'd be a huge mistake to trade 12 and then also Jaire, who is a cornerstone player for the future. Only reason you'd trade him? If his injury is bad enough that he will have trouble tackling in the future - then you get what you can for him. If you go the route of trading 12, 17 and Jaire, then you have no locker room chemistry, no belief the Packers are in it, everyone thinks they will be traded. This is a team that if they do run it back with 12, is a contender. Even without, they could be with their OL, run game, and D.
In a total rebuild, I think any player is on the table, especially if their future with the team may only be a year or 2. I'm not saying it would be easy seeing Jaire traded, but frees up a lot of cap money, adds more draft capital and you could resign Douglas and pair him up with Stokes.

Lots of decisions to make in Green Bay if Rodgers is gone, determining a realistic window to be back in contention is one of them and will serve to guide most of their decisions.
 
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tynimiller

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At some moment you need to spend $ on elite (esp young) talent. If you are trading 12 - and even 17 - you need $ to sign and extend Jaire and others. It'd be a huge mistake to trade 12 and then also Jaire, who is a cornerstone player for the future. Only reason you'd trade him? If his injury is bad enough that he will have trouble tackling in the future - then you get what you can for him. If you go the route of trading 12, 17 and Jaire, then you have no locker room chemistry, no belief the Packers are in it, everyone thinks they will be traded. This is a team that if they do run it back with 12, is a contender. Even without, they could be with their OL, run game, and D.

A lot of the decision on Jaire (best example) is if you’re truly seeking one full rebuild year. If so everyone, or nearly everyone, is available for discussions so you can build draft equity and maximize future $ as well. Personally I love a defense of the future built around Jaire, Gary and low key Barnes (sign him now at his cheapest to a three year deal). This is then added to if you trade away a Rodgers and Davante with some FA cash spent on maybe Campbell and youngish Douglas. Your defense will be above average to stout and you can spend some serious draft equity on offense and perhaps a top flight EDGE or iDL as well. Love proves either direction he is going in 2022 and then you again use serious draft equity and cash to build again and 2023 is my goal year to be pushing in a perfect scenario for wildcard and 2024 is my goal for division again.
 

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A lot of the decision on Jaire (best example) is if you’re truly seeking one full rebuild year.
I think at this point you also have to take into consideration his shoulder. I don't expect it to be an ongoing issue, but I think many thought that about Kevin King and other players.

I think some people get the impression that I don't like certain players like Jaire or Bahk, when I brought up was giving him a huge contract smart. It isn't that I don't like them or that I don't recognize how good they are, I'm just saying its a lot of money and that makes it a huge decision that needs to be thought out clearly. In some cases you are talking about the salary of 4-10 players for one guy. As much as I want the Packers to continue being 13-4 every season, I know when Rodgers leaves, the likely hood of a big drop off is probably higher than some want to believe. Add to that the cap predicament, this rebuild isn't going to happen in 1 season.
 
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tynimiller

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I hear ya for sure. It’s kinda the reason why at times I’d rather a team gamble if you’re going to gamble with projecting future contracts do it with a guy like Barnes. Has been a solid starter and continued to mature, played balls out (most games) when asked this year seeing less snaps due to Campbell playin Godly - but that was the second straight year Barnes overachieved expectations of what and who he is. Instead of one year, sign the man to an average three or heavy backloaded fourth four year for a guy that appears to at WORST your second starting inside LB for as long as he is here.

Paying massive money for any position other than QB is just vastly too much of a gamble at times - and can truly destroy a team if it doesn’t succeed.
 

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Paying massive money for any position other than QB is just vastly too much of a gamble at times - and can truly destroy a team if it doesn’t succeed.
Agreed. The worst contract is the one that you pay a player due to his best work and then you get less than that moving forward. Of course I would love to have the top CB in the NFL on the team, who wouldn't? However, is there any guarantee that it will be Jaire for the life of a huge contract? It isn't really all about how much you pay, its a matter of did you get what you paid for and what was the opportunity cost of paying that player. Some posters screamed bloody murder over King getting the 1 year deal he got, imagine if Jaire's play drops off and he is making 5 times what King made this season.

As Tyni said, get too many of these high end contracts and suddenly your way over-leveraged with a small handful of players.
 
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tynimiller

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I truly think Gute and Ball know they got over-leveraged and this isn’t going to be their typical process once or if Rodgers is gone. Doing things this way is the way to lose your job once the crash happens…they risked it and are fighting the wave rising now.
 

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I truly think Gute and Ball know they got over-leveraged and this isn’t going to be their typical process once or if Rodgers is gone. Doing things this way is the way to lose your job once the crash happens…they risked it and are fighting the wave rising now.
Yes and it obviously was worth the risk, when you have #12 behind center. However, if he isn't going to be there and its #10 for at least one year, you really need to map out a long term plan, with contingencies of building a great team around an average QB. The offense is nowhere near stocked to be successful with an average QB running it. The defense is fine, but I doubt you can keep all those pieces and improve the offense, even if Rodgers and Adams are elsewhere.

One thing they can't do is assume Love is the next HOF QB and keep ignoring the receiver position. The offense needs to flip from one that has a great QB making below average guys look good, to one where above average receivers make an average QB look good.
 
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tynimiller

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Yes and it obviously was worth the risk, when you have #12 behind center. However, if he isn't going to be there and its #10 for at least one year, you really need to map out a long term plan, with contingencies of building a great team around an average QB. The offense is nowhere near stocked to be successful with an average QB running it. The defense is fine, but I doubt you can keep all those pieces and improve the offense, even if Rodgers and Adams are elsewhere.

One thing they can't do is assume Love is the next HOF QB and keep ignoring the receiver position. The offense needs to flip from one that has a great QB making below average guys look good, to one where above average receivers make an average QB look good.


I honestly and truly believe Love only needs to be an Alex Smith type QB with some active legs type level for MLF and Gute to build a contender - perhaps not a SB favorite but a contender. We’re on the same page for the groundwork of long term. If we see Rodgers and Adams gone, I pray Gute works draft equity not solely this year but into the future - contingency on Love not being the future. Imagine if he is solid, Alex Smith/David Carr type level….those picks can keep hit low and talent young for years
 

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I honestly and truly believe Love only needs to be an Alex Smith type QB with some active legs type level for MLF and Gute to build a contender - perhaps not a SB favorite but a contender. We’re on the same page for the groundwork of long term. If we see Rodgers and Adams gone, I pray Gute works draft equity not solely this year but into the future - contingency on Love not being the future. Imagine if he is solid, Alex Smith/David Carr type level….those picks can keep hit low and talent young for years
One thing I am pretty sure of, if you are lucky enough to have a FHOF QB, you don't have to be quite as perfect with the other 21 positions. However, if you have an average QB, you are going to need to make up for it in another way. I don't think 1 player can quite have the same impact as a QB can. When the Bears traded a small fortune for Mack, I think many thought that was a move that would instantly make them a championship contender. Great player, but too easy for other teams to scheme around. Meanwhile he is eating up the salary of 2-6 decent players. I think maybe that is why I am a bit hesitant on a huge deal for Jaire, it isn't because I don't like him, it is because Clark already eats up a ton, Gary will when his time comes and you have a solid rookie and potentially Douglas to play CB.

With Rodgers, it was a lot of watching the team and thinking "How will Rodgers be today and will our defense show up?" After Rodgers leaves, it will be "I wonder what we will see from the offense this week and can the defense keep us in the game?"
 

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Agreed. The worst contract is the one that you pay a player due to his best work and then you get less than that moving forward. Of course I would love to have the top CB in the NFL on the team, who wouldn't? However, is there any guarantee that it will be Jaire for the life of a huge contract? It isn't really all about how much you pay, its a matter of did you get what you paid for and what was the opportunity cost of paying that player. Some posters screamed bloody murder over King getting the 1 year deal he got, imagine if Jaire's play drops off and he is making 5 times what King made this season.

As Tyni said, get too many of these high end contracts and suddenly your way over-leveraged with a small handful of players.
So your approach would be to go with rookies and then trade the best ones away after 3 years for more draft picks rather than take a chance they might not be worth their new contract. Either that or hope they really aren't that good so they don't command top dollar.

What if Stokes explodes or Gary becomes the DPOY next year. You'd be salivating over the draft picks we could get and the money we would save.

Im joking sort of but at some point you have to pony up for some blue chip players who can take over a game if they need to. Its a risk but one that needs taking if you want to have more than a bunch of really good guys on their rookie contracts.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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So your approach would be to go with rookies and then trade the best ones away after 3 years for more draft picks rather than take a chance they might not be worth their new contract. Either that or hope they really aren't that good so they don't command top dollar.
Not at all and it really depends on a lot of factors and would vary from team to team and situation to situation. As far as the Packers current situation, until Rodgers future is figured out, everything else is on hold. If Rodgers stays and reworks his contract for another 3-5 years, I would do all I can to go all in over that time and keep Jaire.

What I said previously, is if the Packers are going to trade Rodgers, I think you put a Non-exclusive franchise tag on Adams and see where that takes you. If you get 2 first round picks for Adams and some nice draft capital for Rodgers, you start taking your cap numbers down. At this point you are in full rebuild mode and if they got a great offer on Jaire, yes, I would consider trading him, depending on some of the other pieces and as long as we can sign Douglas to a reasonable deal.

If the Packers go into rebuild mode, I just don't see them being all that good for a few years. Jaire just sat out a good portion of the year with a shoulder injury, I would rather not make him one of the highest paid CB's and have his cap numbers hitting just when the team might be making progress and you need to find Free agents to fill holes.

I think if we lose Rodgers and Adams, this team is going to look very different in 2022.
 

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In a total rebuild, I think any player is on the table, especially if their future with the team may only be a year or 2. I'm not saying it would be easy seeing Jaire traded, but frees up a lot of cap money, adds more draft capital and you could resign Douglas and pair him up with Stokes.

Lots of decisions to make in Green Bay if Rodgers is gone, determining a realistic window to be back in contention is one of them and will serve to guide most of their decisions.
I hear you but teams who do a total rebuild are always rebuilding. We have a great ol running game and strong young core d. If Adams and Rodgers are indeed gone then so are the smiths. With those 4, a Bakh restructure and jaire extendion we are out of cap hell. The cap likely will be higher significantly the following year with the new tv deal. What we’d need is a qb, special teams, wr and te. With the draft capital we’d get in the trade who is to say we can’t restock on the fly. What scares me is that we have been so fortunate for 30 years to have two hof qbs. What is sad is we have only 2 sbs. Yet with that core we should rebuild on the fly not tear down. IMHO.
 

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