2018 Season = Philosophy Change

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McKnowledge

McKnowledge

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You conveniently forgot to mention Datone Jones and Demarious Randall and Carl Bradford. Kevin King is already showing injury concerns too. It's not just the "Soft 12" either. He finds soft guys to play defense wherever he seems to go to draft players.

He has also spent valuable draft capital on the likes of Rollins, Frackrell, Khyri Thornton and Jerel Worthless. No wonder our defense sucks.

Good point. The sports firm, trainers or whoever handles strength and conditioning should all be fired. Packers need to get some true and living, thorough sports science nerds, and figure a better system for minimizing injury and maximizing production. It cannot be a fluke, every damn year, at least a quarter of the roster is either injured or on IR.
 
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He has also spent valuable draft capital on the likes of Rollins, Frackrell, Khyri Thornton and Jerel Worthless. No wonder our defense sucks.
Yes. Don’t forget 1st round Datone Jones and 2nd round Mike Neal. What kind of legacy did they leave??
Ted Thompson had missed terribly on 1st and 2nd day Defensive draft picks.
Oops didn’t see the Datone reference until after this postb
 

brandon2348

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Good point. The sports firm, trainers or whoever handles strength and conditioning should all be fired. Packers need to get some true and living, thorough sports science nerds, and figure a better system for minimizing injury and maximizing production. It cannot be a fluke, every damn year, at least a quarter of the roster is either injured or on IR.

That wouldn't be a bad idea but they really need to stop letting TT draft defensive players all together. I actually like a lot of his 2017 draft but too little too late as a whole.
 

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I hear you...well read you. The Jaguars have impressed me more than the Rams with their moves. True they don't have AR12...that's the point. We do. We do. Its time for the Packers to get creative this offseason. I think any first round pick outside the top 12 should be trade for more picks, depending on the final record. The construction of this roster is weird. Its not balanced.

You know, I can't think of a single roster that is. Every team has strengths and weaknesses, which is why any team can beat any other team if the matchup favors them.
 
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Then we can look at players he allowed to walk. Julius Peppers is averaging .83 sacks per game in 2017
Julius averaged .58 sacks per game in the 43 games with GB.
How does a guy who started 43 of a possible 48 games for us allowed to walk in FA without an offer and then go and sign a 3.5Mil deal and just 1.6 guaranteed! Then goes on to produce at a sack rate of a 144% increase over his production in GB.
That’s more sacks already than 2 of his 3 years in GB with 7 games to spare.
Oh that’s right! We have Fackrell. What was I thinking!!!
 
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Carl 2

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Answer: Restructure or go somewhere else, and risk being on a team that doesn't utilize him correctly.

And replace him with who? No, hes' not elite anymore, but he's still a valuable part of the defense.

Fans here continually act like every move happens in a vacuum that would affect nothing else or cause no other moves to be made.
 

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Good point. I think Thompson wants to hit "home runs" with the unknown types, the grinders, the "other guys". I think he has an aversion to players from the SEC & ACC. Lawson > Biegel all day.
like that time he drafted Eddie Lacy?
The more and more I think about it, thing that stands out to me most is that we have consistently been plagued by injuries, however we choose to put all our eggs in one basket with guys like CM3.
On Defense, the concept of a particular player or two having a catastrophic effect on our overall performance has not been successful. We more often than not overpay a player like CM3 at 13Million. We end up getting the equivalent of 6Million a year worth of production because he’s playing with injury or missing games. In this case and many similar cases we would be better off finding 2 solid players for roughly half (4-8Million) to fill his spot and give us some depth. We picked up Ahmad Brooks for less than 4M. We could’ve had 4 Ahmad Brooks type players for Clays salary.
Injuries are going to happen, We have to change our way of thinking and making sure that the dropoff in production from #1 to #2 at a given position is mitigated. Maybe even no dropoff with some good fortune.
There are some positions like RB that you can grab a guy like Jonathan Franklin and get bear immediate results. OLB is a specialty position that takes several years to refine. We can’t rely on the hopeful Vince Biegels of the world to be difference makers day 1.
TT is too busy bargain shopping and trying to save a nickel at the Dollar Tree, partly because he’s forced to after he’s Blown his *** of cash in 1hr at Sax 5th Ave.
The problem with that is every year a lot of those guys are prove themselves to be done in the league. and Brooks was available under kind of unique circumstances this year. but regardless, as happy I was we did sign him, he's missed most of this season too. Sure we could sign 4 Brooks types players, but how many years see's 4 Brooks type players that are available and then all 4 will sign with the same team knowing at least 1 or 2 of them are going to just sign a year contract and retire because they're done or sign a one year because they're coming off injury and want to light up the league and cash in again. some of those guys aren't going to want to go split time with 3 other vets at one position. They want to showcase and shine and cash in. Remember, he needs more OLB's, OT's, DB's, and RB's too. Where do the roster spots come from?

You have to invest in your players you think are worth it. Look at how many people are made at not investing at Hawyard and Hyde in the past 2 years? Don't invest in Matthews, who at the time was one of the entire league's premier pass rushers? I don't even need to imagine what it would sound like in here. Should we not have invested in Rodgers because we can get a lot of journeymen back ups and not have a drop off in QB production that was never very high to begin with? Let Sam Shields walk? don't pay Nick Collins?

Injuries do suck. The Saints are finally relevant again after throwing large amounts of cash at a safety one year and then having to trade their best offensive player away to create room because he was hurt all the time and failed. Woodson worked out for us because he stayed fairly healthy. These things happen and sometimes it has nothing to do with talent evaluation. Or you draft a guy like Franklin and his career is ended after a couple games.

Every year it's a new team we need to be like. the Broncos, anybody want to change places with them? The seahawks, that's who we need to be. Sure they might beat us now, but we beat them at full strength and if you take their QB out and go at it head to head, i'm fairly confident we come out on top. Everyone said we needed to emulate them and they've always been known as a running team, even signed a RB away from us to get better and look where they are? The Jags and Rams? you know why they were aggressive? because they've pretty much resided in the basement for 10 years with brief little stints of maybe being something better than garbage and still they haven't won ****. The Rams are looking good, that's certain. There's still a lot of football left to be played.

I think Ted is always trying to balance playmakers with rotational guys we can afford to build a competitive team with and always trying to find guys to make us better. Of course it doesn't always work out, but all these "options" i see being tossed out as "answers" are only answers if they work. Which of course if we never lost all pros to injuries, or have talented guys quit, or have a HOF QB toss an INT in the endzone in games to get us to the superbowl, we wouldn't need options, we'd be too busy winning.
 

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like that time he drafted Eddie Lacy?

The problem with that is every year a lot of those guys are prove themselves to be done in the league. and Brooks was available under kind of unique circumstances this year. but regardless, as happy I was we did sign him, he's missed most of this season too. Sure we could sign 4 Brooks types players, but how many years see's 4 Brooks type players that are available and then all 4 will sign with the same team knowing at least 1 or 2 of them are going to just sign a year contract and retire because they're done or sign a one year because they're coming off injury and want to light up the league and cash in again. some of those guys aren't going to want to go split time with 3 other vets at one position. They want to showcase and shine and cash in. Remember, he needs more OLB's, OT's, DB's, and RB's too. Where do the roster spots come from?

You have to invest in your players you think are worth it. Look at how many people are made at not investing at Hawyard and Hyde in the past 2 years? Don't invest in Matthews, who at the time was one of the entire league's premier pass rushers? I don't even need to imagine what it would sound like in here. Should we not have invested in Rodgers because we can get a lot of journeymen back ups and not have a drop off in QB production that was never very high to begin with? Let Sam Shields walk? don't pay Nick Collins?

Injuries do suck. The Saints are finally relevant again after throwing large amounts of cash at a safety one year and then having to trade their best offensive player away to create room because he was hurt all the time and failed. Woodson worked out for us because he stayed fairly healthy. These things happen and sometimes it has nothing to do with talent evaluation. Or you draft a guy like Franklin and his career is ended after a couple games.

Every year it's a new team we need to be like. the Broncos, anybody want to change places with them? The seahawks, that's who we need to be. Sure they might beat us now, but we beat them at full strength and if you take their QB out and go at it head to head, i'm fairly confident we come out on top. Everyone said we needed to emulate them and they've always been known as a running team, even signed a RB away from us to get better and look where they are? The Jags and Rams? you know why they were aggressive? because they've pretty much resided in the basement for 10 years with brief little stints of maybe being something better than garbage and still they haven't won ****. The Rams are looking good, that's certain. There's still a lot of football left to be played.

I think Ted is always trying to balance playmakers with rotational guys we can afford to build a competitive team with and always trying to find guys to make us better. Of course it doesn't always work out, but all these "options" i see being tossed out as "answers" are only answers if they work. Which of course if we never lost all pros to injuries, or have talented guys quit, or have a HOF QB toss an INT in the endzone in games to get us to the superbowl, we wouldn't need options, we'd be too busy winning.
Stop making sense... you are going to make some of the reactionary posters' heads explode.
 
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McKnowledge

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You know, I can't think of a single roster that is. Every team has strengths and weaknesses, which is why any team can beat any other team if the matchup favors them.

"Any Given Sunday" mantra. True. However, I think there is a formula to minimizing the risk of the losing. That formula being ball control, run first, play-action (big plays), converting 3rd downs, forcing 4th downs on defense, and creating pressure/forcing turnovers. There are in my estimation, some balanced rosters in the NFL. The Chiefs, Eagles, Patriots, Rams, Vikings, Steelers, and maybe Titans (TNF notwithstanding) that appear to have the right ingredients. All teams, with the exception of the Pats have done this through the draft too.
 
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like that time he drafted Eddie Lacy?

Lacy was solid the first two years, he got complacent (lazy) in his third season and didn't "step his game up". Plus, that pick was sort of a "no brainer", Packers needed a RB at that time.
 
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That wouldn't be a bad idea but they really need to stop letting TT draft defensive players all together. I actually like a lot of his 2017 draft but too little too late as a whole.

I wonder if its not out of the question to have two GMs? One for primarily Defense and other for Offense. Either way, management needs to make Thompson "stare at the flowers" once this season is over.
 
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He didn't "chase" anything .... he was cut.

Because he wouldn't take a paycut. Do you really think players are just cut outright? Especially those that have performed at a high level? There's always politics involved.
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And replace him with who? No, hes' not elite anymore, but he's still a valuable part of the defense.

Fans here continually act like every move happens in a vacuum that would affect nothing else or cause no other moves to be made.

No moves happen in a vacuum. However, if he restructured his deal last year or the year before, it might've freed up money for other moves (could've kept Hyde?).
 

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No moves happen in a vacuum. However, if he restructured his deal last year or the year before, it might've freed up money for other moves (could've kept Hyde?).

What would be Matthew's incentive to restructure though?
 

brandon2348

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What would be Matthew's incentive to restructure though?

I dont know? Maybe so he woukdn't end up in Cleveland?

Do you really believe teams would of lined up to pay Matthews 15 million last offseason?

Packers had all the leverage.
 

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I dont know? Maybe so he woukdn't end up in Cleveland?

Do you really believe teams would of lined up to pay Matthews 15 million last offseason?

I have no idea how I implied other teams would have paid him 15 million...

The point is deals are a two way street and the Packers can't just restructure deal without the player consenting. And as I said earlier, although Clay isn't elite anymore, he is a valuable part of the defense still.

TT keeps taking heat for Clay's deal, but his contract was a no-brainer at the time. The forum would have exploded if TT didn't resign him at the time.
 

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Lacy was solid the first two years, he got complacent (lazy) in his third season and didn't "step his game up". Plus, that pick was sort of a "no brainer", Packers needed a RB at that time.
Since that SEC draft pick doesn't count, how about more recently, Ha Ha? Does he count as a draft pick from the SEC?
 

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Since that SEC draft pick doesn't count, how about more recently, Ha Ha? Does he count as a draft pick from the SEC?

Nope. Safety was a big need. No brainier picks don't count for some reason.
 

brandon2348

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I have no idea how I implied other teams would have paid him 15 million...

The point is deals are a two way street and the Packers can't just restructure deal without the player consenting. And as I said earlier, although Clay isn't elite anymore, he is a valuable part of the defense still.

TT keeps taking heat for Clay's deal, but his contract was a no-brainer at the time. The forum would have exploded if TT didn't resign him at the time.


I have no problem with the Mattthews contract. In fact I like it. The Packers would of only eaten about 4 million in dead money if Matthews was released. Next year I believe it's zero.

Would of been the perfect opportunity to give him more "guaranteed money" with a lower cap number to free up more money.
 

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Because he wouldn't take a paycut. Do you really think players are just cut outright? Especially those that have performed at a high level? There's always politics involved.
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The Sitton situation has been discussed to death around here and no definitive conclusion can be drawn as to all the reasons involved in his dimissal, however your characterization is speculation not fact. We do know that he was under contract for the year in which he was cut, therefore ... he did not choose to leave for more money... he was not given the choice.
 

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Speaking of actors, you neglected one of the most famous Packer QBs from the off field world. Brian Dowling.
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Yes THAT Brian (BD) Dowling from Doonesbury fame.

I was thinking of Carlos Brown who started 3 games for us in the mid 70's then became actor Alan Autry in the 80's when his acting career took off.
 

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He didn't "chase" anything .... he was cut.
LOL
"Any Given Sunday" mantra. True. However, I think there is a formula to minimizing the risk of the losing. That formula being ball control, run first, play-action (big plays), converting 3rd downs, forcing 4th downs on defense, and creating pressure/forcing turnovers. There are in my estimation, some balanced rosters in the NFL. The Chiefs, Eagles, Patriots, Rams, Vikings, Steelers, and maybe Titans (TNF notwithstanding) that appear to have the right ingredients. All teams, with the exception of the Pats have done this through the draft too.

First you're going to have to define "balanced roster." What constitutes that for you? Because the Patriots are completely one-sided. They are terrible on defense. I doubt they win a playoff game this year.
 
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like that time he drafted Eddie Lacy?

The problem with that is every year a lot of those guys are prove themselves to be done in the league. and Brooks was available under kind of unique circumstances this year. but regardless, as happy I was we did sign him, he's missed most of this season too. Sure we could sign 4 Brooks types players, but how many years see's 4 Brooks type players that are available and then all 4 will sign with the same team knowing at least 1 or 2 of them are going to just sign a year contract and retire because they're done or sign a one year because they're coming off injury and want to light up the league and cash in again. some of those guys aren't going to want to go split time with 3 other vets at one position. They want to showcase and shine and cash in. Remember, he needs more OLB's, OT's, DB's, and RB's too. Where do the roster spots come from?

You have to invest in your players you think are worth it. Look at how many people are made at not investing at Hawyard and Hyde in the past 2 years? Don't invest in Matthews, who at the time was one of the entire league's premier pass rushers? I don't even need to imagine what it would sound like in here. Should we not have invested in Rodgers because we can get a lot of journeymen back ups and not have a drop off in QB production that was never very high to begin with? Let Sam Shields walk? don't pay Nick Collins?

Injuries do suck. The Saints are finally relevant again after throwing large amounts of cash at a safety one year and then having to trade their best offensive player away to create room because he was hurt all the time and failed. Woodson worked out for us because he stayed fairly healthy. These things happen and sometimes it has nothing to do with talent evaluation. Or you draft a guy like Franklin and his career is ended after a couple games.

Every year it's a new team we need to be like. the Broncos, anybody want to change places with them? The seahawks, that's who we need to be. Sure they might beat us now, but we beat them at full strength and if you take their QB out and go at it head to head, i'm fairly confident we come out on top. Everyone said we needed to emulate them and they've always been known as a running team, even signed a RB away from us to get better and look where they are? The Jags and Rams? you know why they were aggressive? because they've pretty much resided in the basement for 10 years with brief little stints of maybe being something better than garbage and still they haven't won ****. The Rams are looking good, that's certain. There's still a lot of football left to be played.

I think Ted is always trying to balance playmakers with rotational guys we can afford to build a competitive team with and always trying to find guys to make us better. Of course it doesn't always work out, but all these "options" i see being tossed out as "answers" are only answers if they work. Which of course if we never lost all pros to injuries, or have talented guys quit, or have a HOF QB toss an INT in the endzone in games to get us to the superbowl, we wouldn't need options, we'd be too busy winning.
There have been things that have worked under this leadership and I agree that you have to take a look at the whole body of work.
I think if we wanna look in the mirror, we have to see this Defensive Philosophy is clearly not working. Especially if you consider the resources we’ve that we’ve thrown in that direction.
Further, can also reasonably argue that if we would’ve spent the balance of those same resources towards our Offense, we could have a once in a generation Offensive juggernaut.
We’ve been more than fair in regards to patience for those responsible to improve this Defense through personnel and Philosophy.
It current philosophy is failing and actually becoming a hinderance.
I’m now finding myself in the Corner of letting Dom go and consider myself neutral on ideas with changing our philosophy in the player acquisition area and TT. There was a glimmer of hope he showed us in delving into FA this year but it’s too little too late IMO.
 

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I wonder if its not out of the question to have two GMs? One for primarily Defense and other for Offense. Either way, management needs to make Thompson "stare at the flowers" once this season is over.

How does one divide the cap and draft between the two?
 

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