Discuss competency of Brian Gutekunst -- Fire him?

[OldSchool101]

By the Way. Fire Nick Sirianni!! Philly just got humiliated by a mixture backups Tyler Bagent and Case Keenum. Time to erase Philadelphia and start from scratch

 

[DABIGZ]

By the Way. Fire Nick Sirianni!! Philly just got humiliated by a mixture backups Tyler Bagent and Case Keenum. Time to erase Philadelphia and start from scratch

Sirianni Has been on the nerves of Eagles fans before, bought himself some grace when he won a SB. Guy is crap. If I remember right, there was an incident where he had a media conference after a tough loss and he brought his KIDS to the dang thing.

 

[adambr2]

Brian Gutekunst responded to the franchise desires and he did it without hesitation with ZaDarius, Preston, Adrian and Billy in 2018.
It was a universal plea by our own fan to be more aggressive in FA. WE asked for that. I asked for that. If we exclude or are excusing Free Agents or trades contributions? we are actually pushing back against our own wishes and consensus desires for outside help.

This is NOT a condemnation on Ted Thompson. He was well above average leaguewide in acquiring talent. That talent kept us competitive and even netted us 1 Super Bowl. Ted probably Wins a direct GM to GM comparison based on his involvement with netting that Lombardi in his 6th season. Yet let’s not kid ourselves. Brian Gutekunst didn’t relocate to Green Bay in 2018. He’s a long time tenured member of our talent acquisition team. He’s also kept us very playoff competitive since taking over in 2018.

By no means has Brian Gutenkunst been a failure. He’s revered as one of the better GM’s in the league by his own peers. Even naysayers can’t yet discount Jordan Love. THAT was 100% Brian and he took a ton of criticism for that Draft pick. He doesn’t look so foolish now trading a RD4 pick to trade up to what #26? How many recent or current GM’s or Peers have drafted a player at #26 overall area or later and nailed a franchise starting QB?
It’s a short list

Lamar Jackson
Brock Purdy
Dak Prescott
Jordan Love
Jalen Hurts

I liked the signings of both the Smiths and the Amos signings. I think Gute has had some very effective free agent signings, but many of them were very short term.

I don’t discount Jordan Love, I like Jordan Love, but when you consider the value of using a 1st and 4th on him, you also need to consider the fact that that was a 1st round pick sitting on the bench for 3 years first, not providing value. Everyone else on your list — Lamar, Purdy, Hurts, Dak, etc, were starting much earlier on in their rookie contracts. In fact, this is why we were essentially forced to pay Jordan Love $55M a year despite having little regular season data to go on - he sat most of his rookie contract. I’m not saying the pick was bad in hindsight, but you need all of the context to fairly evaluate it. It was a first round pick that really didn’t pay off until he was approaching free agency.

I also don’t think you can compare Jordan to those other names, not yet. Lamar has won MVP and Dak finished top 2. Hurts has won a Super Bowl. Purdy is probably the closest comparable, but he’s won his division, been a Pro Bowler and finished #6 in MVP voting.

Finally, I’d push back some on the narrative that TT was never aggressive in free agency. It’s true that he preferred to draft and develop, but Ryan Pickett was a big signing. Julius Peppers was a splash signing. And Charles Woodson may be the biggest blockbuster signing outside of perhaps Reggie White in franchise history.

 

[adambr2]

Nick Collins never hit All Pro-1

Also you can’t count and Drafts past 8 seasons, because Brian has only had 8 potential drafts that would count (we have not complete 2026 Draft season)

In addition, TT never had a Rookie All Pro-1—so you’d exclude last years draft (2025) which makes it a 7 year max model to compare effectively.

Rodgers only had 1 All Pro—1 (2011) within TT first 7 drafts and it was barely (year 7). So that negates his 3 late career awards (-3)


The count including the same volume of equal qualifying seasons is 5
Aaron -1 (year 7)
Davante-1 (year 7)
Linsley- 1 (year 7)
Matthews- 1 (year 2)
Bakhtiari- 1 (year 6)

Gutenkunst also has 5 All Pro-1 Bids in tenure. They came from
Keisean Nixon (2)
Devondre Campbell (1)
Xavier McKinney (1)
Micah Parsons (1)
in Green Bay AFTER Brian signed them. Acquiring talent should be taken in full context. If not let’s exclude Brett Favre, Reggie White and Ron Woodson from all conversations going forward. Those were all trades or FA acquisitions.

“Acquiring talent should be taken in full context”.

I agree.

Micah Parsons cost two 1st round picks and Kenny Clark. That is not the same as hitting on Day 3 picks like Linsley and Bahktiari and getting high value out of them for years.

That is not a condemnation of the Parsons trade, though I have (and had at the time), mixed feelings about it both ways.

I think both TT and BG have been around long enough that it’s easy enough to paint any narrative that one wants to depending on how you want to view the statistics.

The biggest thing for me is, and always will be, that one built a championship team, and one has not.

 

[DABIGZ]

“Acquiring talent should be taken in full context”.

I agree.

Micah Parsons cost two 1st round picks and Kenny Clark. That is not the same as hitting on Day 3 picks like Linsley and Bahktiari and getting high value out of them for years.

That is not a condemnation of the Parsons trade, though I have (and had at the time), mixed feelings about it both ways.

I think both TT and BG have been around long enough that it’s easy enough to paint any narrative that one wants to depending on how you want to view the statistics.

The biggest thing for me is, and always will be, that one built a championship team, and one has not.

Bingo.

 

[gopkrs]

Sirianni Has been on the nerves of Eagles fans before, bought himself some grace when he won a SB. Guy is crap. If I remember right, there was an incident where he had a media conference after a tough loss and he brought his KIDS to the dang thing.

I think that's funny

 

[adambr2]

Sirianni Has been on the nerves of Eagles fans before, bought himself some grace when he won a SB. Guy is crap. If I remember right, there was an incident where he had a media conference after a tough loss and he brought his KIDS to the dang thing.

Pat Murphy the Brewers manager brings his kids to postgame press conferences all the time.

 

[DABIGZ]

Pat Murphy the Brewers manager brings his kids to postgame press conferences all the time.

I don't follow baseball, so I wouldn't know... but it matters in context. I'm sure when Murphy brings his kids its usually after a win or a special moment. Sirianni brought his kids after a controversial moment in a 20-16 win over the browns after he was caught on camera arguing with fans

https://awfulannouncing.com/nfl/nick-sirianni-criticized-kids-postgame-press-conference.html

 

[adambr2]

I don't follow baseball, so I wouldn't know... but it matters in context. I'm sure when Murphy brings his kids its usually after a win or a special moment. Sirianni brought his kids after a controversial moment in a 20-16 win over the browns after he was caught on camera arguing with fans

https://awfulannouncing.com/nfl/nick-sirianni-criticized-kids-postgame-press-conference.html

Oh no, probably 30-40 times this season and I’d say more after losses than wins, lol

 

[Heyjoe4]

That’s exactly what I said. By week 4-5 we’ll start to get a better indicator of our status at OL

That said someone was speaking forward to needs which is fine. Like you indicated V it’s probably premature, but this is a forum of ideas so I guess we can all have at it. It’s still good to pipeline a good OL each year imo. Guys injure. Guys retire unexpectedly. Guys get traded. Etc.

Thankfully we have 6 selections in that top 55-125 area. I’d use one at OL even if we improve next couple of weeks if that makes any sense whatsoever. The worst case is we have 6-7 guys who are starter level.

The OL reminds me of the terrible safety group GB had before signing Xavier McKinney. Add two solid draft picks in Williams and Bullard, and the safety group is one of the top groups in the NFL.

Hopefully some similar magic can be worked with the OL. But Gluten will be faced with less discretionary cap for a FA(s) - and as we saw with McKinney, one big change can turnaround a group. His miss on Banks was expensive, and not just in terms of $$$.

The current OL is analogous to a perfect storm. Happens rarely, but can be devastating when it does happen.

I don't see a quick or easy way out of this mess, at least not this season. Gluten did pick up a vet OL from some team's practice squad. It's not much but it beats rolling with the current lineup.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think we have sufficient talent at most of the positions. As was stated earlier OL is an issue that wasn't adequately addressed. Our pass rush will be ridiculous with LVN and Parsons terrorizing QBs in a few weeks.

Agreed, and with this Parsons, the team can remain relevant with a top-5 D. I believe D is more important than O anyway. It will hopefully keep games close.

 

[adambr2]

The Packers’ 2022 Draft class continues to pay dividends

It will be tough to top the depth and range of contributions that the Packers got from their 2022 draftees.

www.acmepackingcompany.com

This argument is a pretty strong one that Gute has been better at drafting than is sometimes perceived.

Using Pro football references value chart, the Packers have gotten the best value in the league out of their draft picks from the 2022-2025 draft classes, and the 4th best in value relative to the expected value for those draft spots.

 

[DABIGZ]

The Packers’ 2022 Draft class continues to pay dividends

It will be tough to top the depth and range of contributions that the Packers got from their 2022 draftees.

www.acmepackingcompany.com

This argument is a pretty strong one that Gute has been better at drafting than is sometimes perceived.

Using Pro football references value chart, the Packers have gotten the best value in the league out of their draft picks from the 2022-2025 draft classes, and the 4th best in value relative to the expected value for those draft spots.

Which is why, even though I started this thread, I would do some coaching change first. His last few drafts have been great. Ad on to the fact others have said, in that other players (particularly O-line players) are doing better elsewhere with different coaching... yeah, I start to wonder where the main issues lie.

 

[CarryTheG14]

I swear the people who want to fire Gute have ZERO idea on what goes on around the rest of the league.

 

[Guacamole]

Brian Gutekunst responded to the franchise desires and he did it without hesitation with ZaDarius, Preston, Adrian and Billy in 2018.
It was a universal plea by our own fan to be more aggressive in FA. WE asked for that. I asked for that. If we exclude or are excusing Free Agents or trades contributions? we are actually pushing back against our own wishes and consensus desires for outside help.

This is NOT a condemnation on Ted Thompson. He was well above average leaguewide in acquiring talent. That talent kept us competitive and even netted us 1 Super Bowl. Ted probably Wins a direct GM to GM comparison based on his involvement with netting that Lombardi in his 6th season. Yet let’s not kid ourselves. Brian Gutekunst didn’t relocate to Green Bay in 2018. He’s a long time tenured member of our talent acquisition team. He’s also kept us very playoff competitive since taking over in 2018.

By no means has Brian Gutenkunst been a failure. He’s revered as one of the better GM’s in the league by his own peers. Even naysayers can’t yet discount Jordan Love. THAT was 100% Brian and he took a ton of criticism for that Draft pick. He doesn’t look so foolish now trading a RD4 pick to trade up to what #26? How many recent or current GM’s or Peers have drafted a player at #26 overall area or later and nailed a franchise starting QB?
It’s a short list

Lamar Jackson
Brock Purdy
Dak Prescott
Jordan Love
Jalen Hurts

funny, Love is not a franchise starting QB..but he is a starting QB for now. In the mean time, how bout that OL? Soft, I'd say

 

[DABIGZ]

I swear the people who want to fire Gute have ZERO idea on what goes on around the rest of the league.

But the fact we've signed THREE older FA vets for the o-line is a direct indictment on the talent we "supposedly" had. Rember Gute before the season saying he "was nervous about guys getting poached"? Yeah... I don't think so bud.

 

[DABIGZ]

Regardless, to his credit, Gute did SOMETHING.

Now the ball is in Lafleur's hands. He has 3 new guys to work with to get the ship turned around If the o-line is still lacking? That's a huge indicator that our issue is with coaching

 

[adambr2]

This is in no way a criticism of the moves we made, they had to be done. Our O-line coaching is so bad that the only way around the problem is to find longtime veterans who already know the position and don’t need to be coached up.

But has an offensive line ever been in such shambles that 3 free agents off the street might literally be 3 of our best options?

 

[Magooch]

Regardless, to his credit, Gute did SOMETHING.

Now the ball is in Lafleur's hands. He has 3 new guys to work with to get the ship turned around If the o-line is still lacking? That's a huge indicator that our issue is with coaching

I've touched on this before but I still think part of the issue has to do with a lack of harmony between Gute and LaFleur when it comes to roster construction/vision. it feels like we've been caught for a while now in this weird limbo where we can't decide if we want to be more of an outside zone finesse/movement type of team or a more downhill, physical, vertical gap type of guys. It's like early on in the LaFleur years (and before) we really leaned outside zone, but then like 2023ish to 2025 seemed to start moving away from that to a more physical and aggressive and just bigger brand of OL play...but like didn't 100% firmly embrace/commit to that shift, and now in 2026 it feels like we're already drifting away from that again. So I don't know if that's LaFleur and the coaching staff not committing to a scheme, if it's Gute just grabbing players he likes without scheme consideration or what's going on there, but it just feels like we've been stuck in a bit of a funk there.

With the guys we added, I don't know that it necessarily signifies a "push" towards one scheme or another but I see it more simply just like "You need to be able to put out 5 competent NFL-caliber guys at the end of the day, here you go"

 

[Voyageur]

My concern is more along the lines of weak coaching than lack of talent. The easiest people to blame are the players. As I watch the offensive line I see them making some solid moves but not as a unit, more as individuals and that falls on coaches because the line must operate as a unit, a solid line, that has no gaps, and no points that can be penetrated.

I'm not certain Butkus is a good coach. I'm also not convinced at this point that we have a solid replacement as a defensive coordinator over what we had in the past. Grabbing a couple of street linemen isn't going to fix this situation because in all honesty, it's not a line playing as a unit in my eyes and that's never going to change by blaming players. You need coaches that hammer the concept home.

 

[tynimiller]

My concern is more along the lines of weak coaching than lack of talent. The easiest people to blame are the players. As I watch the offensive line I see them making some solid moves but not as a unit, more as individuals and that falls on coaches because the line must operate as a unit, a solid line, that has no gaps, and no points that can be penetrated.

I'm not certain Butkus is a good coach. I'm also not convinced at this point that we have a solid replacement as a defensive coordinator over what we had in the past. Grabbing a couple of street linemen isn't going to fix this situation because in all honesty, it's not a line playing as a unit in my eyes and that's never going to change by blaming players. You need coaches that hammer the concept home.

Which is why we must have veteran line because the coaches are NOT going to do their part it seems, veterans will know more of what to do and situational awareness than guys with barely any NFL experience.

 

[Voyageur]

Which is why we must have veteran line because the coaches are NOT going to do their part it seems, veterans will know more of what to do and situational awareness than guys with barely any NFL experience.

I couldn't agree more. It reminds me of WWI. When the French army would attack across no-man's-land and get cut to ribbons by German machine gun fire, and suffer 80% casualties before even getting close enough to engage the Germans, and had to retreat. The French high command would blame it on the soldiers as being "cowards." They'd hold a lottery amongst those that survived the charge, draw a few names out and have them shot by firing squads as "cowards" to "improve morale."

That's what often happens in the NFL when it comes to whom is responsible for catastrophic failure on the field.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Which is why we must have veteran line because the coaches are NOT going to do their part it seems, veterans will know more of what to do and situational awareness than guys with barely any NFL experience.

The OL is a cerebral unit. Just having their experience on the line will improve everything.

 

[mradtke66]

The OL is a cerebral unit. Just having their experience on the line will improve everything.

This is my hope.

My worry is taking us from (hypothetically) a 30/100 to 35/100. They still improved, but we're still bad.

 

[milani]

But the fact we've signed THREE older FA vets for the o-line is a direct indictment on the talent we "supposedly" had. Rember Gute before the season saying he "was nervous about guys getting poached"? Yeah... I don't think so bud.

If the line had suffered major injuries across the board that would be a natural response. Replacing them because they cannot play at this level tells you that someone goofed. Yes. Understanding the playbook and communication are important. But simply blocking is fundamental. You either have it or you don't at this level. I loved when Bart Starr told Steve Wright " You miss that block one more time and I'm gonna kick your ***! "