Discuss competency of Brian Gutekunst -- Fire him?

[Firethorn1001]

When was Jacob's arrested? I can't remember at the moment. Gute and company had to know there was a chance he'd be suspended if he was found or plead guilty. For them not to have better options in the RB room we have presently is a fireable offense frankly.

It was May 26. If you give the Packers a few weeks to get information that puts it around June 10th to start realistically thinking of doing something. At that point, what is really available as a FA or a trade. They had limited draft capital with notable holes to fill and they probably believed that they could get by 1 more year with Jacobs/Lloyd and a 3rd body. Just can't crush Gute on the RB front. Anyone out there in June/July going to be better than what they had then?

Now crushing him on O-line... absolutely

 

[Pugger]

It was May 26. If you give the Packers a few weeks to get information that puts it around June 10th to start realistically thinking of doing something. At that point, what is really available as a FA or a trade. They had limited draft capital with notable holes to fill and they probably believed that they could get by 1 more year with Jacobs/Lloyd and a 3rd body. Just can't crush Gute on the RB front. Anyone out there in June/July going to be better than what they had then?

Now crushing him on O-line... absolutely

I guess I have a difficult time believing we couldn't find somebody better than Lloyd on another team's PS.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I don't know why not? Before he can make dumb moves to try and save his job. And put someone in to learn the situation better before draft time. I hope Gutenkust doesn't do our draft next year. And I hope we have some new scouts.

Thanks gopkrs. After thinking more about this after tour comment, it may make more sense to change the GM than to change the HC, at least during the season. Of course this also assumes there are good candidates for GM that could replace Gluten for the long-term.

 

[DABIGZ]

I guess the Rams should fire everyone. They just lost by 1 score to the Denver Broncos led by Bo Nix. Time to reshuffle the Franchise!

I see what you're doing and I;m trying to take you seriously, but it's getting hard to do with the little snide comments..

Really? Comparing a nip and tuck game, AT Denver, that was decided by one score (and again some questionable ref calls...) to what we did on Thursday night?

 

[milani]

I see what you're doing and I;m trying to take you seriously, but it's getting hard to do with the little snide comments..

Really? Comparing a nip and tuck game, AT Denver, that was decided by one score (and again some questionable ref calls...) to what we did on Thursday night?

I am seeing two trends in the NFL so far 3 weeks into the season:

1) Numerous QBs getting injured.
2) Yellow flags flying like mosquitoes in the tropics.

Neither are good for the game.

 

[easyk83]

At this point, I don't know what the perfect world is for you to have a new GM.

You've turned this into a new GM shouldn't be hired until the situation is better for them and now worrying about LVN, Bullard and Cooper.

I'll just back out of the conversation.

Following a plot has become harder in this era of instant gratification. Anywho, we are without cap space, will not have a first round pick until 2028 and around that time Parsons K will turn into a wrecking ball both for cap space and for our ability to trade him. Gute put his own FO into a financial strait jacket, his ability to make mistakes has been limited by said blunder. Yes, good young players who should become franchise cornerstones likely will be lost to free agency due to said deal, this too is part of the problem.

What some of you arent considering, is what kind of twit would want the job for the next year or so?

 

[Half Empty]

Following a plot has become harder in this era of instant gratification. Anywho, we are without cap space, will not have a first round pick until 2028 and around that time Parsons K will turn into a wrecking ball both for cap space and for our ability to trade him. Gute put his own FO into a financial strait jacket, his ability to make mistakes has been limited by said blunder. Yes, good young players who should become franchise cornerstones likely will be lost to free agency due to said deal, this too is part of the problem.

What some of you arent considering, is what kind of twit would want the job for the next year or so?

As with so many things now in pro (actually, in college, too) sports, lots of twits would want an eight-figure contract with a buy-out provision netting most of it.

 

[adambr2]

It’s surface scratching. Kinda like the Media does. You take a slice of truth and embellish it. Colin cowherd would agree his take is Matt doesn’t “sell” anything to his Team. He then goes on to tout how the Harbaugh Brothers “sell” their idea and it invigorates their team. Through 3 weeks they have a combined record of 2-4? How is that supposed to invigorate me??

Harbaugh is 0-2 in postseason since coming to LA and he was blown out of both losses by a combined 15-48!! Is that who you use to argue how much better a Coach you are than MLF is? You can’t make this stuff up it’s like people use an opportunity when someone is down to pile on. It’s weird and it’s contagious on top of it.

I’m a big believer that continuity is good, but only to a point. You do eventually reach a point where you need new ideas and new direction, new people running the show. Things get stale.

I mean, even Andy Reid got fired. And of course it doesn’t mean he’s a bad coach - but I also don’t think Philly has any regrets. They’ve won 2 Super Bowls and been to 3 since. It just wasn’t working out there anymore.

Our best example is Mike McCarthy. Man won us a Super Bowl, has a street in Green Bay named after him. Does that mean we were crazy to move on from him? No. Things had just gotten stale and they needed a change. It also doesn’t mean that McCarthy was just a dumb coach the entire time.

 

[easyk83]

I’m a big believer that continuity is good, but only to a point. You do eventually reach a point where you need new ideas and new direction, new people running the show. Things get stale.

I mean, even Andy Reid got fired. And of course it doesn’t mean he’s a bad coach - but I also don’t think Philly has any regrets. They’ve won 2 Super Bowls and been to 3 since. It just wasn’t working out there anymore.

Our best example is Mike McCarthy. Man won us a Super Bowl, has a street in Green Bay named after him. Does that mean we were crazy to move on from him? No. Things had just gotten stale and they needed a change. It also doesn’t mean that McCarthy was just a dumb coach the entire time.

That kind of job is a load and coaches do get burned out after a while, some recover and some are just never the same again.

 

[easyk83]

As with so many things now in pro (actually, in college, too) sports, lots of twits would want an eight-figure contract with a buy-out provision netting most of it.

I mean theres always someone looking to get paid.

 

[OldSchool101]

I guess I have a difficult time believing we couldn't find somebody better than Lloyd on another team's PS.

I was initially surprised we let Wilson go. If I recall he signed a minimal $deal so I’m not sure what happened there? I just remember thinking we should’ve kept him for that amount of $$ but maybe his agent bluffed us.

I thought we go into the season Jacobs-Wilson-Lloyd with a chance Lloyd might overtake Wilson snaps as the season developed.

PS. I looked it up Wilson signed for $1.6Mil which is peanuts.

 

[DABIGZ]

I was initially surprised we let Wilson go. If I recall he signed a minimal $deal so I’m not sure what happened there? I just remember thinking we should’ve kept him for that amount of $$ but maybe his agent bluffed us.

I thought we go into the season Jacobs-Wilson-Lloyd with a chance Lloyd might overtake Wilson snaps as the season developed.

PS. I looked it up Wilson signed for $1.6Mil which is peanuts.

Which is another black eye on Gute. Before Jabobs was suspended you had Lloyd who's had no experience once so ever. None that it matters since our O-line is worse than the chargers were last year lol.

 

[BrokenArrow]

When was Jacob's arrested? I can't remember at the moment. Gute and company had to know there was a chance he'd be suspended if he was found or plead guilty. For them not to have better options in the RB room we have presently is a fireable offense frankly. Decent NFL caliber backs can make something out of nothing but the guys we have cannot. Having a historically inept OL makes the situation even more dire. IMO having a mess of an OL and crappy RBs is enough evidence to show Gute should be given a pink slip right along with MLF.

No. The performance of the OL goes directly on Butkus and MLF's shoulders. Gute can only acquire players. He doesn't coach them and the OL has gotten progressively worse since Butkus was given the job. We have fielded competitive teams year after year DESPITE the ineptitude of MLF and his buddies. I think he was given one more year to show he can get it done because of losing Parsons and Kraft. But when you fire the GM, which is what teams like the Jets, Browns, Dolphins etc routinely do to try to fix their problems, you are saying that you are wiping the slate clean and starting all over from scratch. And that's not a winning formula. If your OL is **** for various reasons, you can't expect much from everyone else from the RBs to the QB to even the defense because they wear down when the offense can't sustain drives.

 

[Magooch]

I do wonder also if a big wrinkle in the whole Gute-LaFleur dynamic and/or who's on the hot seat or not has to do simply with our organizational structure...

Some of you may recall when Policy took over and there was discussions around renewing (or not) Gute and/or LaFleur's contracts, some of that discussion entailed a possible change to the organizational structure - GB doesn't have such a "traditional" hierarchy where the HC reports to the GM and the GM reports to the president; instead for us both HC and GM report straight to the president. There was some talk about reverting that to the more traditional structure but that didn't end up happening.

IIRC some of the motivation there in the first place was to work on reducing "friction" that had existed with TT and McCarthy - I think there was some sentiment that Ted kept things very close to the chest and worked without as much coaching input and at times it led to McCarthy feeling like he had been stuck with Ted's players rather than his guys. So the idea was that LaFleur and Gute would work collaboratively on the team building process. Makes some sense in theory but I also feel it's muddied the waters a bit when it comes to role responsibilities and "authority" (for instance, could Gute unilaterally fire Butkus? Or does that have to come from LaFleur?).

More than that however I feel like Matt has recently had a hard time committing to a scheme/direction. At times there has been a focus on changes in the run scheme to get bigger and more physical, hence guys like Banks and Belton, but then at other times it seems like we have wanted to shift more athletic and skill/shifty based rather than pure physicality. Gute then is the one tasked with finding/acquiring these guys for Matt, but it seems like they are still just not always on the same page and occasionally it feels like Gute will get a guy for one scheme fit only to have Matt turn around and decide he wants to move in a different direction...and so the result is that we end up with a hodgepodge of players without very clearly defined roles and it's all compounded by shoddy positional coaching.

So again that's not me being a Gute apologist by any means but I guess all that to say that I'm just not 100% clear on assessing a lot of our players, both as individuals and scheme fits. Hobbs for instance was a big whiff, he just flat out stunk. Looks to be trending that way with Banks. But then I look at guys like Morgan or Belton or the like and I have to question if they are simply the "wrong" players - if they are just straight up not good enough at all - or if it is more a question of scheme fit, indecision, and an inability to commit to a particular role/application for them. As I've said a million times now I don't think there's any reality in which I can say NEITHER are at fault but I guess it's also like...I also can't say with complete confidence that it is all on Gute for poor roster construction but I ALSO can't say with total confidence it's all on Matt for not getting the most out of the talent at his disposal, I guess

 

[gopkrs]

No. The performance of the OL goes directly on Butkus and MLF's shoulders. Gute can only acquire players. He doesn't coach them and the OL has gotten progressively worse since Butkus was given the job. We have fielded competitive teams year after year DESPITE the ineptitude of MLF and his buddies. I think he was given one more year to show he can get it done because of losing Parsons and Kraft. But when you fire the GM, which is what teams like the Jets, Browns, Dolphins etc routinely do to try to fix their problems, you are saying that you are wiping the slate clean and starting all over from scratch. And that's not a winning formula. If your OL is **** for various reasons, you can't expect much from everyone else from the RBs to the QB to even the defense because they wear down when the offense can't sustain drives.

When you say Gutenkust only aquires players; you make it sound like that isn't really part of the formula. Which, imho, is ridiculous

 

[BrokenArrow]

When you say Gutenkust only aquires players; you make it sound like that isn't really part of the formula. Which, imho, is ridiculous

How so? Does he coach them? Does he train them? No. That's not his job.

 

[gopkrs]

He does not pick the best players for the job. They aren't all equal.

 

[Guacamole]

and yet Gute is already signing OL guys after 3 weeks....says a lot what he did not do in the off season

 

[gopkrs]

and yet Gute is already signing OL guys after 3 weeks....says a lot what he did not do in the off season

And who knows what he's signing. The guy from, was it Miami, had really bad grades. But he was the one Gute went after. Somehow experience, even when bad, is good in his book. Looks like he could be starting so I guess we'll see. Or maybe a couple years under our tutelage and he'll improve.

 

[adambr2]

Interesting fact: Ted Thompson drafted 6 first team all pro players in 121 picks: Aaron Rodgers, Davante Adams, Corey Linsley, Clay Matthews, David Bahktiari, and Nick Collins. These 6 players combined for 11 first team all pro seasons.

Brian Gutekunst has never drafted a first team all pro player in 80 picks.

 

[adambr2]

How so? Does he coach them? Does he train them? No. That's not his job.

You don’t think it’s possible that some of his picks didn’t turn into good players not because they were poorly coached or poorly trained, but because they were bad picks and bad scouting?

 

[BrokenArrow]

You don’t think it’s possible that some of his picks didn’t turn into good players not because they were poorly coached or poorly trained, but because they were bad picks and bad scouting?

Every GM misses on some picks here and there. But overall his OL picks have been solid. Four of his picks are entrenched starter on other teams right now. Butkus is the main problem.

 

[OldSchool101]

Interesting fact: Ted Thompson drafted 6 first team all pro players in 121 picks: Aaron Rodgers, Davante Adams, Corey Linsley, Clay Matthews, David Bahktiari, and Nick Collins. These 6 players combined for 11 first team all pro seasons.

Brian Gutekunst has never drafted a first team all pro player in 80 picks.

Nick Collins never hit All Pro-1

Also you can’t count and Drafts past 8 seasons, because Brian has only had 8 potential drafts that would count (we have not complete 2026 Draft season)

In addition, TT never had a Rookie All Pro-1—so you’d exclude last years draft (2025) which makes it a 7 year max model to compare effectively.

Rodgers only had 1 All Pro—1 (2011) within TT first 7 drafts and it was barely (year 7). So that negates his 3 late career awards (-3)


The count including the same volume of equal qualifying seasons is 5
Aaron -1 (year 7)
Davante-1 (year 7)
Linsley- 1 (year 7)
Matthews- 1 (year 2)
Bakhtiari- 1 (year 6)

Gutenkunst also has 5 All Pro-1 Bids in tenure. They came from
Keisean Nixon (2)
Devondre Campbell (1)
Xavier McKinney (1)
Micah Parsons (1)
in Green Bay AFTER Brian signed them. Acquiring talent should be taken in full context. If not let’s exclude Brett Favre, Reggie White and Ron Woodson from all conversations going forward. Those were all trades or FA acquisitions.

 

[OldSchool101]

Brian Gutekunst responded to the franchise desires and he did it without hesitation with ZaDarius, Preston, Adrian and Billy in 2018.
It was a universal plea by our own fan to be more aggressive in FA. WE asked for that. I asked for that. If we exclude or are excusing Free Agents or trades contributions? we are actually pushing back against our own wishes and consensus desires for outside help.

This is NOT a condemnation on Ted Thompson. He was well above average leaguewide in acquiring talent. That talent kept us competitive and even netted us 1 Super Bowl. Ted probably Wins a direct GM to GM comparison based on his involvement with netting that Lombardi in his 6th season. Yet let’s not kid ourselves. Brian Gutekunst didn’t relocate to Green Bay in 2018. He’s a long time tenured member of our talent acquisition team. He’s also kept us very playoff competitive since taking over in 2018.

By no means has Brian Gutenkunst been a failure. He’s revered as one of the better GM’s in the league by his own peers. Even naysayers can’t yet discount Jordan Love. THAT was 100% Brian and he took a ton of criticism for that Draft pick. He doesn’t look so foolish now trading a RD4 pick to trade up to what #26? How many recent or current GM’s or Peers have drafted a player at #26 overall area or later and nailed a franchise starting QB?
It’s a short list

Lamar Jackson
Brock Purdy
Dak Prescott
Jordan Love
Jalen Hurts

 

[milani]

Brian Gutekunst responded to the franchise desires and he did it without hesitation with ZaDarius, Preston, Adrian and Billy in 2018.
It was a universal plea by our own fan to be more aggressive in FA. WE asked for that. I asked for that. If we exclude or are excusing Free Agents or trades contributions? we are actually pushing back against our own wishes and consensus desires for outside help.

This is NOT a condemnation on Ted Thompson. He was well above average leaguewide in acquiring talent. That talent kept us competitive and even netted us 1 Super Bowl. Ted probably Wins a direct GM to GM comparison based on his involvement with netting that Lombardi in his 6th season. Yet let’s not kid ourselves. Brian Gutekunst didn’t relocate to Green Bay in 2018. He’s a long time tenured member of our talent acquisition team. He’s also kept us very playoff competitive since taking over in 2018.

By no means has Brian Gutenkunst been a failure. He’s revered as one of the better GM’s in the league by his own peers. Even naysayers can’t yet discount Jordan Love. THAT was 100% Brian and he took a ton of criticism for that Draft pick. He doesn’t look so foolish now trading a RD4 pick to trade up to what #26? How many recent or current GM’s or Peers have drafted a player at #26 overall area or later and nailed a franchise starting QB?
It’s a short list

Lamar Jackson
Brock Purdy
Dak Prescott
Jordan Love
Jalen Hurts

As I said even 15 years ago. TT is so fiscally sound. But sometimes you have to take a shot.