What is going on with Rodgers?

[Un4GivN]

Hate to even keep this going....but......how does the Seattle game have anything to do with Aaron Rodgers and your assertion that he isn't a good leader? The guy played the game on 1 1/2 legs. I assume since this thread is talking about Aaron Rodgers, this is what you are implying?

The Packers lost the Seattle game not out of frustration but because the defense folded up like a cheap suit and the Special Teams screwed up not once, but twice.

That isn't a point that he brought up...

Playing hurt in itself is not leadership, this is made up by media. If you hurt your team more than you help, that isn't leadership that is selfishness. Rodgers definitely was better than whomever was backup last year. But just saying playing hurt has nothing to do with leadership. Going to work hurt and sitting there *****ing all day, doesn't make you a good leader.

But that game was not even close to lost on defense... Wilson ended the game with 200 yards 1 TD 4 INTS and a rating of 16... lol Rodgers played one his poorest game I have seen as did the offense in general. I believe Aaron personally was something like 19-34 170 1TD 2INTS. He was injured but given that he just dismantled the Cowboys the week before i doubt that was the root cause.

And actually folding is a sign of frustration. Ever think the offense scoring 22 points off of 5 turnovers might be upsetting to the defense after a while? Having 8 out of 10 drives they start from the 9:20 in the second, till the end of the game not have more than 4 plays? That is almost 3/4 of the game with two drives over 4 plays. Sad.

The Packers offense was alarmingly bad that day. The blame ended up going to play calling and the onside kick but there was soo much more. The defense was the only reason Green Bay was even in that game. I don't blame them for that game at all. There is plenty to go around but I think frustration may have actually hit a headway with the team which is what you seen after as well. And with the changes.

 

[longtimefan]

I blamed offesnse as well for seattle

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That isn't a point that he brought up...

Nor did he bring up frustration as a reason for the Packers losing to Seattle, you did that all on your own. You want to imply that the offense (Rodgers) frustrated the defense by not scoring more on 5 turnovers and it was this frustration which finally caused the defense to fail. I suppose the punt team and onside kick team were equally as frustrated with Rodgers and the offense, thus their big gaffes?

Playing hurt in itself is not leadership, this is made up by media. If you hurt your team more than you help, that isn't leadership that is selfishness. Rodgers definitely was better than whomever was backup last year. But just saying playing hurt has nothing to do with leadership. Going to work hurt and sitting there *****ing all day, doesn't make you a good leader.

This whole paragraph makes no sense. Again, in your round about way, you are trying to imply that Rodgers showed no leadership skills by playing on a torn calf muscle, but was just being selfish and sat around *****ing all day. What you also fail to recognize is where we were playing (one of the toughest venues in the NFL) and who we were playing against. As bad as you think our offense was, the Seahawks defense was just that good, despite having to defend the field after 5 turnovers.

And actually folding is a sign of frustration

Yes the Packers defense was awesome that day, for about 55 minutes and then they let up, not out of frustration with the offense or their own execution that day, but due to over confidence of seemingly having the game won. I'm guessing they were frustrated as hell after the game, but complacency that turned to panic by the defense (and special teams) while Aaron Rodgers was on the sidelines cost us that game way more then a below average day for the offense against a very good defense.

 

[TJV]

I don't need a lesson in positive vs. negative reinforcement and I brought that up with more with regard to Lombardi than Rodgers.

Just to prove you have no idea what you are talking about in business...

Just to prove you don't read what you actually write, you wrote "Some of the people I work with daily make more in a year than he will make in his career of being a professional athlete." That has nothing to do with a person's net worth "more in one year" is clearly their annual compensation. Regarding severance packages, you wrote in the first person, "Some of the people I work with daily..."

You've posted you are a manager. If the owner/CEO is overseeing what you're doing on a daily basis you're probably in trouble. Given what you wrote about your career, I don't believe you work daily with multiple people who make in excess of $200M/year.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

That isn't a point that he brought up...

Playing hurt in itself is not leadership, this is made up by media. If you hurt your team more than you help, that isn't leadership that is selfishness. Rodgers definitely was better than whomever was backup last year. But just saying playing hurt has nothing to do with leadership. Going to work hurt and sitting there *****ing all day, doesn't make you a good leader.

But that game was not even close to lost on defense... Wilson ended the game with 200 yards 1 TD 4 INTS and a rating of 16... lol Rodgers played one his poorest game I have seen as did the offense in general. I believe Aaron personally was something like 19-34 170 1TD 2INTS. He was injured but given that he just dismantled the Cowboys the week before i doubt that was the root cause.

And actually folding is a sign of frustration. Ever think the offense scoring 22 points off of 5 turnovers might be upsetting to the defense after a while? Having 8 out of 10 drives they start from the 9:20 in the second, till the end of the game not have more than 4 plays? That is almost 3/4 of the game with two drives over 4 plays. Sad.

The Packers offense was alarmingly bad that day. The blame ended up going to play calling and the onside kick but there was soo much more. The defense was the only reason Green Bay was even in that game. I don't blame them for that game at all. There is plenty to go around but I think frustration may have actually hit a headway with the team which is what you seen after as well. And with the changes.

The offense just isn't effective against great defenses because they aren't a great offense, even with Nelson. Need a guy who is actually a mismatch against Sherman. And the 2 INTs don't really tell the story, as one should have been an offside free play (though he probably deserved the no call for throwing a ball to Adams while Sherman was on him) and Cobb ran the wrong route on the other.

 

[Un4GivN]

I don't need a lesson in positive vs. negative reinforcement and I brought that up with more with regard to Lombardi than Rodgers. Just to prove you don't read what you actually write, you wrote "Some of the people I work with daily make more in a year than he will make in his career of being a professional athlete." That has nothing to do with a person's net worth "more in one year" is clearly their annual compensation. Regarding severance packages, you wrote in the first person, "Some of the people I work with daily..."

You've posted you are a manager. If the owner/CEO is overseeing what you're doing on a daily basis you're probably in trouble. Given what you wrote about your career, I don't believe you work daily with multiple people who make in excess of $200M/year.

And some people do make more... your definition of "make" and mine are different. You consider what is on a paycheck. I consider what assets a persons gains in year. Could be a background thing? And easily written off as.... Agree to disagree since it serves no other purpose to the Packers or the thread.

That's you're choice big guy. I have nothing to prove to you, still doesn't change the facts of what I am saying if i work at McDonald's and sleep under a bridge.

 

[Un4GivN]

Nor did he bring up frustration as a reason for the Packers losing to Seattle, you did that all on your own. You want to imply that the offense (Rodgers) frustrated the defense by not scoring more on 5 turnovers and it was this frustration which finally caused the defense to fail. I suppose the punt team and onside kick team were equally as frustrated with Rodgers and the offense, thus their big gaffes?

This whole paragraph makes no sense. Again, in your round about way, you are trying to imply that Rodgers showed no leadership skills by playing on a torn calf muscle, but was just being selfish and sat around *****ing all day. What you also fail to recognize is where we were playing (one of the toughest venues in the NFL) and who we were playing against. As bad as you think our offense was, the Seahawks defense was just that good, despite having to defend the field after 5 turnovers.

Yes the Packers defense was awesome that day, for about 55 minutes and then they let up, not out of frustration with the offense or their own execution that day, but due to over confidence of seemingly having the game won. I'm guessing they were frustrated as hell after the game, but complacency that turned to panic by the defense (and special teams) while Aaron Rodgers was on the sidelines cost us that game way more then a below average day for the offense against a very good defense.

Let's try to make this easier...

Showings of frustration in play calling, catching ability, blocking... Hanging your head, throwing up your arms. No matter who you are. Does that help a team win a game? And is it possible that it has a negative outcome on the other players involved?

Then ask yourself... Does Rodgers do this? And could he improve?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Let's try to make this easier...

Showings of frustration in play calling, catching ability, blocking... Hanging your head, throwing up your arms. No matter who you are. Does that help a team win a game? And is it possible that it has a negative outcome on the other players involved?

Then ask yourself... Does Rodgers do this? And could he improve?

Let me know when you find a robot to play QB for the Packers. *hangs his head and throws his hands up in frustration*

 

[longtimefan]

Let's try to make this easier...

Showings of frustration in play calling, catching ability, blocking... Hanging your head, throwing up your arms. No matter who you are. Does that help a team win a game? And is it possible that it has a negative outcome on the other players involved?

Then ask yourself... Does Rodgers do this? And could he improve?

Brady does it

 

[Un4GivN]

Let me know when you find a robot to play QB for the Packers. *hangs his head and throws his hands up in frustration*

Deflection instead of admitting he could do better.

Brady does it

Ohh look what we have here, deflection instead of admitting he could do better

But you're right... Brady was even worse than Rodgers earlier in his career.Until someone told him that it hurts his team and chances for victory. Then he admitted his error to national media and has been much much better over the past 2-3 years, and won a super bowl oddly enough.

Live and learn... All I am saying is Rodgers hasn't yet. And a boost in leadership skills could go a long ways for receivers lacking confidence to win 1v1's. Especially young ones. Which could be contributing to the problem the Packers are seeing.

 

[longtimefan]

Ohh look what we have here, deflection instead of admitting he could do better

.

Ok...smart ***

You spouted off on how you know rodgers and how his neighbors have issues..

Most of us have issues with you because of you refusal to come clean. That is a good reason as why your getting grief in this thread..

I have told you that once in a convo..

Now you want to say I am deflecting?

Thats ironic, dont cha know eh?

And thats not me as a mod ...just trying to give a little hint of the statc your getting

 

[Un4GivN]

Ok...smart ***

You spouted off on how you know rodgers and how his neighbors have issues..

Most of us have issues with you because of you refusal to come clean. That is a good reason as why your getting grief in this thread..

I have told you that once in a convo..

Now you want to say I am deflecting?

Thats ironic, dont cha know eh?

And here is my answer to that....

"Ya, I agree...

I gave this some long hard thought during the middle of that conversation and decided that the problem is I shouldn't have said anything in the first place and I can't fix that. I could say blah blah blah and it would just be rejected by the vast majority of people because it is coming from someone on the internet. I understand that. I'd be sceptical too.

The other reason is, though it is pertinent to my opinion of him. Is it really my place to judge or throw online? These are things done outside of football field.

I struggled for it a bit, and though I may take a hit on the forums for it... Because in the end who I am as a person means more to me than who I am on the forums. And I have to suck up my mistakes."

Ever since, the points I make try to stay away from things outside of the football field. These conversations do take some weird turns at time but I have tried my best to condense back to what the true point is.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Is this really what this forum is about? A few posts relevant to the thread, then 8 pages of everyone arguing with Un4givn?

You are entitled to your opinion, but you are giving it where you are obviously in the overwhelming minority. There's people out there who'd agree with you, but not here. If you were just a troll I'd dismiss it, but you obviously love the team, and I am much more of a troll than you'll ever be.

It's like going to a Zeppelin forum and saying that Plant wasn't a good frontman. You could probably come up with reasons why that is true, but you'll be met with the same responses you are here.

 

[Packerlover]

“Leadership is based on a spiritual quality --- the power to inspire, the power to inspire others to follow.” - Vince Lombardi

I believe Rodgers has met this criteria.

 

[Half Empty]

“Leadership is based on a spiritual quality --- the power to inspire, the power to inspire others to follow.” - Vince Lombardi

I believe Rodgers has met this criteria.

Per post #213, this is what the forum is all about.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

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[Sky King]

"Great taste!"
"Less filling!"

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[milani]

Very good point, did all that frustration in the Seattle game help the team win? One could argue that it helped get Clements to get to be able to call the plays for a while... Did that help? Or would it have been better to run the plays like it was the best play ever called... Instill confidence in it. If it fails it isn't because they didn't try. Or even audible if that is possible. And voice your concerns privately. To not bring down the morale of the whole team in the middle of a game.

Point is... as the person people look to, you give off a negative vibe or say something bad about the play being called in. Does that help the team execute it to it's fullest? Or have you just made people think it's doomed for failure before it's even run? By glaring at a receiver, does that help him catch the next pass? Or did you just kill his confidence for the next one thrown his way?

Hey, after Lombardi left Bart Starr took a couple sacks in a preseason game due to an inept blocker named Steve Wright. And a rarely irate Bart told him directly on the field, " You let that happen again and I'm going to kick your ***." QBs like Rivers and Brady are not afraid to speak their peace on the field. What it should do is light a fire on that player. If he cannot take it he does not belong there. As Glanville once said, " This is the NFL which means Not For Long."

 

[Un4GivN]

Hey, after Lombardi left Bart Starr took a couple sacks in a preseason game due to an inept blocker named Steve Wright. And a rarely irate Bart told him directly on the field, " You let that happen again and I'm going to kick your ***." QBs like Rivers and Brady are not afraid to speak their peace on the field. What it should do is light a fire on that player. If he cannot take it he does not belong there. As Glanville once said, " This is the NFL which means Not For Long."

Just because it has/is done... Doesn't make it the best way. Things change and sciences gain knowledge constantly. How to motivate someone in 1600 is different than now. Knowledge is power and if you stay in the past to long you will get passed by.

Brady admitted his error and has since corrected throwing tantrums on the field. And when Aaron get to that point, it will be another step in the right direction for a great quarterback.

Anyways I am leaving this one at this, Merry Christmas everyone Hope you have a wonderful time with family and friends.

 

[areacodes]

Brady admitted his error and has since corrected throwing tantrums on the field. And when Aaron get to that point, it will be another step in the right direction for a great quarterback.

Good to know that Brady has corrected his ways and doesn't yell at teammates on the field anymore because he is such a great leader... oh wait...

http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...d-all-night/HsV7nhUnZe3Hwy6CxoQT8H/story.html

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you'll find a way to let us know how it is different from how Rodgers does it.

What exactly is your definition of a leader and how do you want Rodgers to improve?

Also, you said multiple times that leadership is the same across different fields (military, business, football) but when others have compared how Rodgers does it to how a coach would do it you change your tune and say it is different. Which one is it?

 

[TJV]

And some people do make more... your definition of "make" and mine are different. You consider what is on a paycheck. I consider what assets a persons gains in year. Could be a background thing? And easily written off as.... Agree to disagree since it serves no other purpose to the Packers or the thread. That's you're choice big guy. I have nothing to prove to you, still doesn't change the facts of what I am saying if i work at McDonald's and sleep under a bridge.

No, I don’t consider just what’s on a paycheck - and what in the world would this subject have to do with someone’s background? I consider line 22 of form 1040 a person’s (or couple's) total annual compensation - what people “make in a year” according to your claim. And little guy what you are “saying” is your opinion and an allegation which I don’t believe, not facts.

 

[Dr.Jackanapes]

The underlying concept here is that Rodgers is a poor leader, therefore guys like Davante Adams and Eddie Lacy (just two examples) are loafing it. This is a convenient thought process, but try it from the following angle:

Guys like Adams are not able to self-motivate. The next contract isn't tangible enough or important enough to work toward. In addition, winning is also not a supreme motivator. So, Adams et al loaf in part because they are not self-motivated and because they are sulking because Rodgers is being a pouty jerk.

Fine, under the assumption that Rodgers is a crappy leader, these guys are still responsible for doing their jobs. The Packers, therefore, did a poor job selecting the sort of character guys they have been able to get in the past (by character, I mean work ethic). In this scenario, Rodgers sucks, but is not ultimately responsible for the crappy attitudes and work ethics of the players around him.

Think about this: if you have a crappy boss, do you just shut it down? If so, blame Rodgers. If you work through adversity and difficult hierarchical and interpersonal situations, then blame everybody.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Okay, enough is enough. Nobody is going to give ground here. It`s been an interesting rally, but the IGNORE BUTTON is over there, right under each others name.

 

[PackPackPackers]

Yes, I am calling out Aaron Rodgers, since not a lot of Packer fans have because somehow we have this notion that he is some infallible god.

However, in his past few games, he has not looked anywhere close to being good. Unfortunately, there are other QB's not named Rodgers like Tyrod Taylor, Blake Bortles, and Cam Newton putting up way better numbers.

So why do we blame the other parts of the offense when he is suppose to be the major part of the Packers' success? We have to be realistic and Rodgers needs to be held accountable. People that want to shove this under the rug are making this a lot worse. If Rodgers does not improve, we are not winning a Super Bowl, it is that simple.

If he can play just as good as last year or the beginning of this year, then we might have a shot. But before people call me out, look at the numbers and do some research on what has Rodgers contributed and you will not be surprised of how bad he has played recently.

I hate to admit it, but we are not a good team when Rodgers plays bad. I accept any challenges to my opinion, but I am just leaving this out there.

 

[Shawnsta3]

My belief is the whole offense has played like $hit. Blame Rodgers, the line, recievers, backs, playcalling, etc. It's a collective effort. To single out any one player as you do would be easy (see Adams & Lacy throughout the year) but IMO not all that accurate.