Improving the Defense for 2017....How and Who?

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't blame Dom entirely for the defense sucking, I do blame him for not being able to get the defense to even a Hal ***** serviceable level. I really think his time should be done, what he is doing is just not working. I am not basing that simply on this year.

Spot on. This has been an ongoing issue. I wish I could find the stats that were being spouted on the radio yesterday and I was driving so I couldn't write them down. However, Capers defenses have been abysmal against good offenses in the regular season and even worse come playoff time. Quick math, in the Packers 7 playoff losses since 2009, the Packers defense has given up 36.29 points/loss. You just aren't going to get to Super Bowls doing that.

Some blame for the defense has to be placed on TT and his whiffs during the last 5 or so years of mostly draft and develop mentality, but I think its time for a new look and a fresh set of eyes on this defense in the way of a new DC.

 

[Dantés]

I agree with those that argue that signing a veteran corner is probably the best thing that the team could do to address what ails them on defense. A true CB1 who allows Gunter, Randall, and Rollins to bump down to lesser receivers could make a world of difference. That's what Shields did, but he's likely gone. The problem is that FA options are limited. It's basically a one man list: Stephon Gilmore.

Now Gilmore has not been without his struggles in recent seasons, but Ryan asks more of his corners than anyone else in the league. He's held up as a "solid" #1 corner in that scheme, so it stands to reason that he would be more productive in a more CB friendly defense. However, any discount that those struggles might incur is going to be countered (and then some) by this weak CB class of free agents. And then there's always the chance he's tagged and never even sees the open market.

It would seem more likely that the best they'd be able to do is sign a lesser veteran and draft a corner. Thankfully, this draft class is stacked with good ones.

 

[Pkrjones]

This might be a draft where you trade back into the early first round to acquire another pick.

I think you meant trade back into early 2nd round, right? If so, I agree. There will probably already be 5 or 6 CB's off the board by pick 29 and more than a couple of high 2nd round pick teams still looking for a QB. Trade back into pick 33-36 and get a similar CB or OLB (TE if Howard falls?) that we would have taken in Rnd 1.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The biggest mistake the Packers could make in the off season would be to sit pat on the current group of CB's and expect to improve the position with a "high" draft pick. With Randall, Rollins and Gunter you have enough depth, but you need at least a #1 cover corner and the odds of finding this instantly at #29/30 are slim to none. People keep saying that there just aren't going to be many available in the Free Agent market to even try and sign, well....here is an idea, trade for one. Drafting and developing isn't the only way to get starters. We have already seen how that experiment has worked out at the CB position as well as at ILB, TE and RB.

If the Packers were in rebuild mode, I would understand trying to draft another CB high, like we did with Randall and Rollins and see what happens. However, the Packers are not in rebuild mode and need a cover corner now. However, there are teams that will be in rebuild mode and they may very well entertain trade talk for their CB.

 

[rodell330]

I just can't believe people actually want to keep Gunter!! And it's more than a few!! There is absolutely nothing I see in him that warrants him being on the roster next year..not even as the dime corner. I've watched all his snaps and he has zero impact on the defense..ZILCH. He is a completion waiting to happen. To slow to play man, can't tackle, not quick enough to react in zone coverage, can't catch, led the league in completion percentage given up when qbs target him...I need ONE reason that trumps all those I mentioned above to keep this guy.

 

[brandon2348]

Id keep Datone Jones, though perhaps after letting him test the market. He didn't do much it's true but it was his first full year OLB, we should be able to sign him for cheap and he'll probably be better than whoever takes his place. Anyone remember Lumba and Vic So'oto or Frank Zombo for that matter?

Yeah, that makes sense to sign him on the cheap.

 

[DarkHelmet]

The moment Shields went down with his four hundredth concussion the number one priority should have been to get a proven number 1 cornerback. It still is the number one priority.

 

[brandon2348]

I just can't believe people actually want to keep Gunter!! And it's more than a few!! There is absolutely nothing I see in him that warrants him being on the roster next year..not even as the dime corner. I've watched all his snaps and he has zero impact on the defense..ZILCH. He is a completion waiting to happen. To slow to play man, can't tackle, not quick enough to react in zone coverage, can't catch, led the league in completion percentage given up when qbs target him...I need ONE reason that trumps all those I mentioned above to keep this guy.

I dont think anyone thinks
Gunter is "amazing" but he played better then all the other corners and things would of been even worse witbout him. I think they need two corners and not just 1. I'd like to see them sign Stephon Gilmore and draft Jabril Peppers.. I see those two as instinct upgrade. Gunter can be used to press bigger receivers in the slot. He has some value.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I just can't believe people actually want to keep Gunter!! I need ONE reason that trumps all those I mentioned above to keep this guy.

Lack of competition to beat him out?

Gunter made the roster this year for 2 reasons.....hope and lack of talent behind him. The hope of him improving, at least at the CB position has all but disappeared, but until competition pushes him out, he will be on the roster.

I take it he is your Don Barclay of the defense?

 

[Packer Brother]

Darrell Revis if we can get him cheap.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I dont think anyone thinks
Gunter is "amazing" but he played better then all the other corners and things would of been even worse witbout him. I think they need two corners and not just 1. I'd like to see them sign Stephon Gilmore and draft Jabril Peppers.. I see those two as instinct upgrade. Gunter can be used to press bigger receivers in the slot. He has some value.

Peppers won't be available when the Packers pick and its highly doubtful that TT (if he is still running the draft) pays the price to move up to get him.

 

[Dantés]

The biggest mistake the Packers could make in the off season would be to sit pat on the current group of CB's and expect to improve the position with a "high" draft pick. With Randall, Rollins and Gunter you have enough depth, but you need at least a #1 cover corner and the odds of finding this instantly at #29/30 are slim to none. People keep saying that there just aren't going to be many available in the Free Agent market to even try and sign, well....here is an idea, trade for one. Drafting and developing isn't the only way to get starters. We have already seen how that experiment has worked out at the CB position as well as at ILB, TE and RB.

If the Packers were in rebuild mode, I would understand trying to draft another CB high, like we did with Randall and Rollins and see what happens. However, the Packers are not in rebuild mode and need a cover corner now. However, there are teams that will be in rebuild mode and they may very well entertain trade talk for their CB.

The diagnosis is the easy part. The solutions are more difficult to figure out (at least if we're going to be realistic). I think Gilmore is a good option to address the needs to the team if he actually hits the market. Though when there's only one good option (my opinion), even if you're willing to pay there's no guarantee you will get him. He will have many suitors, all willing to pay top dollar.

There are other guys who could help without actually being that true #1 corner. Logan Ryan and Prince Amukamara are helpful players, but they aren't going to be that #1 guy. Trumaine Johnson is also an option, though he seems like the type of character that you hold your breath when you hand a big contract to (if they vet him and are comfortable with him off the field, he would be the 2nd best option, IMO).

Trades in the NFL are exceptionally rare. It's not out of the question, but it isn't exactly very realistic either. Do you have any suggestions?

 

[C-Lee]

Darrell Revis if we can get him cheap.

He's cooked and would cost too much money.

 

[Dantés]

He's cooked and would cost too much money.

Emphasis on the former. That guy is all name and no game at this point.

 

[brandon2348]

Peppers won't be available when the Packers pick and its highly doubtful that TT (if he is still running the draft) pays the price to move up to get him.

We dont know that for sure. Lots of player evaluations have him as late first/second round right now. Time will tell

And thats another thing. If were gonna run this "Capers D" then they need to start gettimg more aggressive getting the guys we need to run it successfully instead of just adding bodies and hoping. It's a total failure approach.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The diagnosis is the easy part. The solutions are more difficult to figure out (at least if we're going to be realistic). I think Gilmore is a good option to address the needs to the team if he actually hits the market. Though when there's only one good option (my opinion), even if you're willing to pay there's no guarantee you will get him. He will have many suitors, all willing to pay top dollar.

There are other guys who could help without actually being that true #1 corner. Logan Ryan and Prince Amukamara are helpful players, but they aren't going to be that #1 guy. Trumaine Johnson is also an option, though he seems like the type of character that you hold your breath when you hand a big contract to (if they vet him and are comfortable with him off the field, he would be the 2nd best option, IMO).

Trades in the NFL are exceptionally rare. It's not out of the question, but it isn't exactly very realistic either. Do you have any suggestions?

Oh I agree, its easy to be an armchair GM, what we all don't see are the endless communications between GM's and the information they have on every player, the non-public information.

A.J. Bouye for the Texans would be another CB I would love to get. However, I don't see the Texans letting him hit the FA market, nor do I see TT competing in it for him if he does.

Bottom line for me, there are most likely other options besides the draft to fill the #1 CB spot or at least improve on what we currently have, but that is up to TT to figure out who and how.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

We dont know that for sure. Lots of player evaluations have him as late first/second round right now. Time will tell.

This is true, guys slide up and down the mock draft boards until they are finally picked. But unless I am missing something, I don't see Peppers sliding all the way to #29, but stranger things have happened.

 

[Dantés]

I haven't watched Peppers very closely. The production is distinctly unimpressive, but that may mean nothing.

PFF's people seem to think that he's a mid first rounder, but that he's more of a nickel linebacker than anyone you want covering wide receivers.

Daniel Jeremiah ranked him 33rd in his first top 50 list of the season and had this to say:

Peppers has played cornerback, safety, linebacker, running back and quarterback during his time in Ann Arbor, and is an incredibly tough evaluation. He has outstanding athleticism, but didn't look comfortable playing linebacker in 2016, lacking the size to hold up at that spot in the NFL. I think he's best suited to play strong safety. As a run defender, he relies on his quickness to burst through gaps and find the ball carrier. Once engaged by blockers, he really struggled. He needs to be clean to be effective. In pass coverage, he has plenty of speed and agility to mirror tight ends, and he is a dynamic blitzer. His instincts and ball production are both average. He is a very explosive punt returner, and is both elusive and instinctive as a runner on offense. Overall, Peppers is a better athlete than football player right now, but he has tremendous upside as a strong safety.

 

[brandon2348]

This is true, guys slide up and down the mock draft boards until they are finally picked. But unless I am missing something, I don't see Peppers sliding all the way to #29, but stranger things have happened.

This is true and if that is gonna be the case they could slide back and get Adoree Jackson and either Carlos Watkinss or TJ Watt. In fact thet could get all 3 if they did it right.

Then Go get Stephon Gilmore who had a bad year and is unhappy in Buffalo. Add another pass rusher and were there with what we already have in place.

 

[brandon2348]

I haven't watched Peppers very closely. The production is distinctly unimpressive, but that may mean nothing.

PFF's people seem to think that he's a mid first rounder, but that he's more of a nickel linebacker than anyone you want covering wide receivers.

Daniel Jeremiah ranked him 33rd in his first top 50 list of the season and had this to say:

I think he can cover wr's. He has explosive 4.3 speed and has burst for his size alomg with good instincts. This guy can play any position in the secondary. He is very similar to Charles Woodson coming out and Peppers is a tick faster.

 

[easyk83]

I think you meant trade back into early 2nd round, right? If so, I agree. There will probably already be 5 or 6 CB's off the board by pick 29 and more than a couple of high 2nd round pick teams still looking for a QB. Trade back into pick 33-36 and get a similar CB or OLB (TE if Howard falls?) that we would have taken in Rnd 1.

Thats exactly what I meant, pick up an extra 4th or 5th rounder and use it to pick up an additional CB in the middle rounds. We'll need a couple extra picks in rounds 4-5 to fortify our O and D lines.

As for Jabril Peppers, I could see him turning into a stud but he feels like a player with a lot of hype and not a clear position to play in the Pro game.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Thats exactly what I meant, pick up an extra 4th or 5th rounder and use it to pick up an additional CB in the middle rounds. We'll need a couple extra picks in rounds 4-5 to fortify our O and D lines.

I'm not so sold on accumulating a lot of mid to late round picks over obtaining a possible starter. The Packers are a young team with pretty good depth, but they are lacking some quality starters. So I would prefer seeing picks traded away VS accumulated.

 

[Dantés]

I think he can cover wr's. He has explosive 4.3 speed and has burst for his size alomg with good instincts. This guy can play any position in the secondary. He is very similar to Charles Woodson coming out and Peppers is a tick faster.

I'm not going to try and agree or disagree until I watch some of his games closely, but none of the guys who I typically look to for strong prospect evaluation seem to share this assessment.

 

[bigbubbatd]

This isn't a team with a ton of holes but they definitely have needs. The nice thing is our offense is in really good shape. Here are my thoughts on a good off-season

Move on from Capers. I don't blame him for everything but the Atlanta game wasn't just a talent issue it was a scheme and planning issue. Dump offs to rbs should go for 10 plus every time.
1 FA cb. Preferably a top 5 or so guy.
1 and 2nd round pick a cb and Olb.
Resign Perry and Hyde.
Trade or restructure Clay. Not worth his salary.
Get another dt in the draft or fa.

We are fine at safety. We could use one more ilb for depth but I am fine rolling with Ryan, Thomas and Martinez. They are young and improving.

We don't need to go crazy in fa but need a couple signings to go with a few picks. On offense we could get an interior lineman in the draft and a rb. But if we resign lang and cook we return an offense that was very good down the stretch

 

[easyk83]

I'm not so sold on accumulating a lot of mid to late round picks over obtaining a possible starter. The Packers are a young team with pretty good depth, but they are lacking some quality starters. So I would prefer seeing picks traded away VS accumulated.

Sometimes those mid round guys turn into good players, and there's a lot to be said about the effect that camp competition has on player development.