slaughter25
Cheesehead
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2011
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Wow, devildon sure is salty... Welcome to the board whoartthou.
I just mentioned this in another thread, but this is telling how good Rodgers is: Tell me honestly Packer fans, what would happen to your team if Rodgers went down for the season like Manning? I don't even know who your backup is, but envision the scenario and tell me what you think would happen: 1) What place would the Packers finish in the division? and 2) Would the Packers make the playoffs?
i agree that i dont like the comparison to quarterbacks in montana's era.. because it was a different game. I think brady is the best POST montana... but aaron rodgers could easily take that title. Peyton IMO has no right to that title (won his only SB with one of his worst performances ever [team defense bailed him out], and threw a pick 6 in the other sb).
I just mentioned this in another thread, but this is telling how good Rodgers is: Tell me honestly Packer fans, what would happen to your team if Rodgers went down for the season like Manning? I don't even know who your backup is, but envision the scenario and tell me what you think would happen: 1) What place would the Packers finish in the division? and 2) Would the Packers make the playoffs?
lmao from who?!
Yes one of the most talented QBs of all time.Hey guys just to give a little introduction... i am new to the forum and in all honestly, my team is actually the new england patriots.. but i have been drawn to the packers for the past 2-3 years. I love their offense and of course mr.rodgers.
From what i have observed from mr.rodgers and previous quarterbacks (maybe the past 12-14 years), aaron rodgers to me is the most talented quarterback in the past 10-12 years (and maybe more). I think his talent is similar to that of a steve young... its insane how accurate rodgers is, how he can run in and out of the pocket... his rocket arm..
Of course being a patriots guy i love tom brady, but i think AROD right now is either the best qb in the league, or tied with brady.
What do you guys think about mr.rodgers talent? Is he one of the most talented of all time? How does he compare to a steve young or dan marino.. or elway?
BTW, if the patriots do not win the superbowl, GO PACKERS! A packers patriots superbowl would be sweet (with either team winning).
Any time people make claims about a player from situations, without analysing his play, it is assinine.One thing that ****** me off about people is when they claim that rodgers is who he is because of the talent around him... that is absolute rubbish. Who did montana have again? Thats right.... the greatest WR of all time.. should we be belittling montana? OF course not.
Michael jordan had the greatest SF of all time (defensively)... should we degrade MJ?
Should we claim that Magic Johnson was a product of his stacked teams? He did after all have one of the greatest teams of all time..
Great players make things work regardless of who is around them (of course the talent needs to be there, but they allow it to mesh). Look what belichick and brady are able to do with the talent around them (yes the patriots do indeed have a talented team, but in the past they rarely had superstar names other than randy moss).
Look at what rodgers and mccarthy have done in such a short period of time... with massive injuries to the squad last year, and easy superbowl victory? This is going to be scary for the rest of the league for years to come (hopefully mr.rodgers doesn't get injured, i hate when a great talent's career goes down the drain due to injures). See penny hardaway.
And besides, i honestly think aaron rodgers was critical to the development of his WR'S. Does he have a stacked offensive team? Sure he does in nelson, jennings, etc etc. Does that mean Rodgers is not the main reason for their offensive success? Of course not. How many times did rodgers have to make clutch throw after clutch throw in the post season last year? How many times on 3rd downs did you hold your breath after rodgers somehow got you that first down?
nope, patriots first!Any time people make claims about a player from situations, without analysing his play, it is assinine.
The talent around him does improve his stats (though he has always lacked a potent running game), but it's not the talent around him making GREAT decisions almost every single time and having pinpoint accuracy.
Are you sure you're not a Packer fan, BTW?
It's just that, fans from "new" franchises (the Pats only started winning in the 2000's) tend to think a lot like ESPN... Gladly surprised to see another fan who doesn't simply buys the hype but actually watches the games.nope, patriots first!
Yes one of the most talented QBs of all time.
He has the Steve Young ability with the Joe Montana personality. I know the story is out there but Rodgers had bad mechanics and a not very stong arm, he had to work extremely hard to get where he is, and now he has one of the quickest releases in football, the best pinpoint accuracy maybe ever, and can make every single throw.
Rodgers has some areas of concern. His touch on balls that need it is lacking, particularly in short yardage. He misses a lot of screens.
Rodgers' best ball BY FAR is the seam route, he can fit it anywhere he wants, it's amazing actually.
He improved his pocket presence tremenduously, he used to be very reluctant to move to his checkdown receivers, and because his #1 focus has always been to not make bad decisions, he used to tuck the ball and take a sack.
Now, because of his accuracy, he trusts more the throws and the protection.
There are still areas to work with, particularly the pre-snap reads, but this last 10 games he has been impecable in that department. But he's still not in the area of Tom Brady and Manning. He'll be, though, with more experience, just with his work ethic and intelligence that are off the roof. Plus he's a grudge holder, he gets motivated by the silliest things, and remembers every single negative comment about him. He's constantly motivated, that's why he's so consistant, having never had a turnover differential of less than 1 (Rodgers never threw 2 more ints than TDs, having only thrown for 3 ints 3 times, the last one week 8 of the 2009 season against Tampa). His decision making is one of the best in the league, almost on par with Tom Brady's. He has actually a better career INT% (1.9 to Rodgers, 2.2 to Brady, both spetacular. Manning is 2.7, to illustrate)
In short, Rodgers makes great decisions, is very mobile, extremely accurate, can make every throw, is good at sensing the pressure, is great at pre-snap and post-snap reads. His short accuracy and touch are not as good, he can still hold onto the ball too long sometimes (but nothing near his 2 first years as a starter).
Comparison, he's, like I said, the most pinpoint accurate QB ever. More than Marino, Montana, Young, Favre... He can fit the ball simply anywhere he wants.
Montana is the second best decision maker there ever was, just surpassed by Starr. He could very well be the #1, but Starr had to call every play on offense, not only play QB. The result are 5 championships with him earning SB MVP honors both times he played in a SB, and the second best (only surpassed by Rodgers) postseason QB rating of all time, and having orchestrated one of the best scoring offenses of all time in 62, 29,65 points per game (In the 1960's). Montana also threw IMHO the second best slant outside of Favre. His short accuracy was as good as Brady's.
Marino, the big point about Marino was his field vision. Best of all time no question, coupled with the quickest release of all time. Once Bill Walsh, in a conversation with Marino, asked him how he went through his progressions, what he did vs zone and man etc... Marino said he didn't do any of that, he just threw to the open man. That tells you how great of field vision this guy had, to be able to not study as much as others and just play ball. That's also IMHO the reason he never won a SB and played poorly in the postseason, but that's another topic...
Manning is the cerebral guy, much of what is done nowadays in terms of how to throw against certain coverages he pratically came up with on his own. The guy is the master of the pre-snap read, and, unlike his brother, is also very skilled at post-snap reads. Manning tends to be afraid of the rush, though. If you get in his face he can make poor decisions, he doesn't have the physical skills that Rodgers has to be able to throw accurately on backfoot.
Brady is very similar to Manning, but he's more of a short passes guy as opposed to Manning who likes to work the medium routes. Brady is all about the LOS, and winning in there. That doesn't mean he's not accurate deep thrower, we're talking about first ballot Hall of Famers in here. Just listing the areas where these guys are the best of all time. He's also one of the best decision makers of all time.
To me the best QB of all time is Starr, because of all his championships, and the way he played in crunch time (again, second best postseason QB rating of all time at 104.8 only behind Rodgers' 112.6, but in a MUCH harder era to throw the ball), having to not only play but also scheme.
I do think Rodgers has the ability to be the best of all time, he currently sits at #1 for career QB rating with 100.5, #1 for postseason QB rating with 112.6, #1 for most games with 100 QB rating with 29 (in 63 games, might I add), #1 in INT% with 1.9, #1 in 3rd down QB rating with 111.5, and I don't exactly remember the number but he has something like 65 TDs to 2 INTS in the redzone.
Great topic, man, and welcome to the forum!
(ps.: sorry for the long post. Kept writing...)
this is true but i think patriots fans are different. Obviously i can't speak for ALL patriots fans, but the ones down at patsfan.net, they give props when its due. And mr.rodgers definitely is getting his due from these guys.It's just that, fans from "new" franchises (the Pats only started winning in the 2000's) tend to think a lot like ESPN... Gladly surprised to see another fan who doesn't simply buys the hype but actually watches the games.
Yeah, I've watched the Patriots-Dolphins game, and Brady made several great long throws. I think you're right, he wasn't as good but is greatly improving. It's, like I said, nitpicking on a first ballot Hall of Fame.GREAT post man, great post. I almost agree entirely with what you just typed out. Aaron rodgers definitely has the tools to be one of the greats (if not the BEST), only time will tell if he gets it done (i.e. no injuries, team stays together etc etc).
Regarding the manning/brady things, i agree with most things except that i think brady was a terrible deep thrower when he first came into the league and than improved that aspect TREMENDOUSLY. Hell, when he got a potent WR in moss, we had one of the greatest offensive seasons from a QB ever (And WR). I think mr.brady showed he can play it deep if need be (but i believe belichicks likes the short passing game much more).
You were 100 percent spot on with mr.rodgers. His short-passing game might not be on par with others (brady is who you mentioned)... but he can EASILY improve that aspect of his game. But then again, the way the packers play, he might not need to, especially when he can consistently throw bombs with pin-point accuracy.
I think the "X-FACTOR," with aaron rodgers is that he can make EVERY SHOT in the book with PIN-POINT ACCURACY. How the "expletive" do you defend that? On top of that, mr.rodgers is one of the most capable QB runners in the NFL (maybe all time??). I think Vick and rodgers are equals in this category (yes vick is more athletic, but rodgers knows when to run as opposed to just blatantly doing it).
What makes rodgers so great (and IMO what manning TRULY lacks), is playing your best football in the biggest and most important moments. Rodgers does not have a single bone in his body that spells CHOKE. He just gets it done when need to be.. (brady is similar in this aspect, however, in the last two post-seasons he did not play up to par).
Nonetheless, great post
Funny you talk about QB prospect, his footwork and mechanics coming out of college were very awkward and his arm strenght was only above average.Well it's nice that you have been very humble about this you being a Patriots fan, and that's nice to hear. I've told my Dad before, that I think Rodgers is perhaps the best QB I've ever seen. I mean his footwork is above and beyond anybody in the league, he senses pressure well, and he extends plays with his feet, his passing and accuracy is amazing-- I mean I think almost every pass he throws he puts right where he wants too and he sure fires a nice pass as well.
I think all around this kid probably is one of the better QB prospects in quite sometime. He has a 100.5 career passer rating, and he's only 27. He's going to put up some nice numbers.
Funny you talk about QB prospect, his footwork and mechanics coming out of college were very awkward and his arm strenght was only above average.
It's just to show you can't measure a guy's desire to be greay.
Where art thou, Patriots fan?
I'm gonna turn the tables on you for a bit. You've heard what we think of Rodgers, now I would like to know what is going on in Patriots country. Do you think Brady is still in his prime? Past his prime? How many SBs do you think he has left? Would you still define him as elite? I ask this because your Patriots are probably my Packers #1 threat in the AFC. If these two teams met in the SB right now, who do you think would win? Who would get MVP?
Also, what's your backup QB situation like. I don't mean for if Brady gets injured (hopefully he doesn't, nobody really wants that), but for when he decides to retire? My guess is BB is already 3 steps ahead of that question and either already has somebody lined up or has been scouting prospects. BB, as an owner is one of the smartest in the industry in terms of drafting. He's a genius. I like to compare him to our own Ted Thompson (TT) in that respect.
Back to Brady, as you praised our Rodgers, I offer you the same to Brady. He is one of the best of our time. The year you guys beat the Eagles in the SB ('o3?), I thought the Patriots were superhuman. That team reminds me of my current day Packers in terms of sheer chemistry and talent. I would compare either teams to the Cowboys super team in the mid '90s that had our darling Aikmen, Emmett Smith, and Micheal Irving. Even if you are not a fan of the Packers, Cowboys or Patriots, if deep down you just love football in its essence, you can learn to love and appreciate the spellbinding way they play and how they just captivate you.
Unrelated, what do you think of Deion Branch? I have him on my fantasy team.
I hope your Patriots destroy the Jets this Sunday. I loathe the freakin Jets more than any other team.