Will we have a 2020 NFL Season?

[rmontro]

I was referring to attitudes of people, not the strictness of regulation.

That too.

 

[Poppa San]

You better double check. I clicked on your "Beauty and Mask" link. It's a dead link. I clicked on your "Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery - Global Open" link and it just takes me to some generalized plastic surgery home page.

I wasn't referring to the links inside the quotes. I never considered them, just the ones to the articles I posted.

 

[Poppa San]

I was kind of hoping this was a place to get away from the trump bashing and politics....

Don’t interrupt. I’m so enjoying this enlightening political conversation... on a Packer forum.

You are right. In this thread I will stop adding to the hijack.

 

[gopkrs]

I would like to know why the Titans have so many with Corona. Has the NFL figured out how it started with them and then how it spread? They should have figured that out by now. I imagine they are working on it but...

 

[HardRightEdge]

I would like to know why the Titans have so many with Corona. Has the NFL figured out how it started with them and then how it spread? They should have figured that out by now. I imagine they are working on it but...

It only takes one to spread it around in a group working in tight confines. The odds of contagion go up to the extent precautions are lax. It's all about the odds. You can go from none one day, a whole bunch a couple days later, as evidenced in the headline news of the day.

The NFL would be doing contract tracing. That might lead to a patient zero so to speak, or it might lead to multiple possibilities, or it might lead to a dead end. They might figure out who brought it in but not how he got it. If two guys were found to have snuck off to two different nightclubs or admitted to having sex with two different anonymous groupies picked up in the hotel bar, how would you ever determine which is the likely source?

Contract tracing requires full and accurate disclosure of contacts. If the trace leads to a large public crowd (or Walmart on a Saturday afternoon) identifying who was there would prove impossible, a dead end. Even if you could identify all parties in the crowd some unkown one of which is the likely source, the trace goes down a multiple degrees of separation rabbit hole tracking back through potentially millions of people. Or a person may choose not to disclose, such as when cheating on a spouse. Further, in the wild, so to speak, government contract tracers are encountering instances of non-cooperation, the reasons for which would vary.

Contract tracing was much in the news during the AIDS epidemic. That was orders of magnitude easier because the trace was back through ****** contacts. With an airborne virus which could also be picked up off hard surfaces I would think dead ends are the rule rather than the exception.

 

[XPack]

Pat's QB Can Newton tests positive for Covid-19 and out of the game vs Chiefs.

If this carries on, the season would be a sham.

 

[gopkrs]

Contract tracing was much in the news during the AIDS epidemic. That was orders of magnitude easier because the trace was back through ****** contacts. With an airborne virus which could also be picked up off hard surfaces I would think dead ends are the rule rather than the exception.

I am really not talking about contact tracing. I am thinking of larger event tracing. Where was he or them? What kind of unsafe actions did some of the infected take? Not really about finding one person responsible. That is not the way to go about it with the NFL or the country. More important to figure out what kind of events to stay away from or at least be more careful imho.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Pat's QB Can Newton tests positive for Covid-19 and out of the game vs Chiefs.

If this carries on, the season would be a sham.

They have postponed the game. As we are finding out from the supposed "leaders" of our country, contact tracing, testing, etc. doesn't always work. Especially when you refuse to follow all the recommended protocols and continue to ignore the advice of medical experts.

It is also being reported that Chief player(s) have also tested positive.

 

[Dantés]

Some of the protocols that people have developed a cult following around don’t have any discernible effect.

When they’re followed, and transmission happens then the narrative is “despite their best effort..”

When they aren’t followed, and transmission happens then the narrative is “they were asking for it...”

It’s called confirmation bias.

Maybe members of these teams did something unnecessarily foolish. Maybe not. Viruses spread and there isn’t anything we can do to completely mitigate that reality. Some of the measures help. Others likely don’t help near as much as people think.

Thankfully, NFL players are in an age demographic that isn’t high risk from this disease. A lot of the cases caught in pro sports screening would likely go unnoticed in the general population.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

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[gopkrs]

Some of the protocols that people have developed a cult following around don’t have any discernible effect.

When they’re followed, and transmission happens then the narrative is “despite their best effort..”

When they aren’t followed, and transmission happens then the narrative is “they were asking for it...”

It’s called confirmation bias.

Maybe members of these teams did something unnecessarily foolish. Maybe not. Viruses spread and there isn’t anything we can do to completely mitigate that reality. Some of the measures help. Others likely don’t help near as much as people think.

Thankfully, NFL players are in an age demographic that isn’t high risk from this disease. A lot of the cases caught in pro sports screening would likely go unnoticed in the general population.

Are you saying we should not try and figure it out? Just keep doing what your doing. **** happens.

 

[Dantés]

Are you saying we should not try and figure it out? Just keep doing what your doing. **** happens.

No, I’m saying we should actually assess whether the things we do really work or not. By all means, we should try to be smart about this.

 

[Dantés]

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Lol. Great point.

Stay mad!

 

[XPack]

Some of the protocols that people have developed a cult following around don’t have any discernible effect.

When they’re followed, and transmission happens then the narrative is “despite their best effort..”

When they aren’t followed, and transmission happens then the narrative is “they were asking for it...”

With a new disease and no known ways of control and no cure, what else did you expect?

With a contact sport like NFL, it's almost next to impossible to prevent this.

They gave it a good shot and hopefully this will not get worse and we can enjoy the season. Fingers crossed.

 

[Dantés]

With a new disease and no known ways of control and no cure, what else did you expect?

With a contact sport like NFL, it's almost next to impossible to prevent this.

They gave it a good shot and hopefully this will not get worse and we can enjoy the season. Fingers crossed.

I didn’t really have preconceived expectations for a situation like this.

All I’m saying now is that when outbreaks happen in the league, there are some who will blame it on things that probably don’t actually matter.

So I guess my expectation at this point is that if people are going to have religious passion for certain interventions, that there would be some really strong evidence that those interventions are really effective.

But I agree— fingers crossed!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

With a new disease and no known ways of control and no cure, what else did you expect?

I think as we have seen in other aspects of life, the results tend to be based on how serious you take the threat and how well you follow the known preventive measures. I think we saw that happen in the NBA and MLB. Right out of the gate there were issues and I believe that was a good wakeup call to the rest of the teams "follow the safety guidelines and we may do better." We can only hope that incidents like these will help others to do better and the NFL can have a season. I have less confidence that Colleges will be able to complete a season.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I am really not talking about contact tracing. I am thinking of larger event tracing. Where was he or them? What kind of unsafe actions did some of the infected take? Not really about finding one person responsible. That is not the way to go about it with the NFL or the country. More important to figure out what kind of events to stay away from or at least be more careful imho.

I see. Contract tracing can locate other potentially infected individuals, get them tested, and go from there, for their benefit and for those they might have infected or otherwise would infect if they are in fact positive.

You are wondering what kind of events are to be avoided and what the NFL is doing about it. Well, the CDC and other medical experts have provided plenty of advice on the matter which by now everybody has heard a million times. I don't see any need to elaborate in detail.

The NBA caught an quarantined a player for having an "unathorized" person in his hotel room. I can't imagine what that might have been about. In short, the more bubble-like the existance and the less contact from outside the bubble, the less chance the virus will get in. In the NFL case, it could be such an unauthorized person being the source or it could be as simple as a kid goes to school, presents no symtoms, brings it home, gives it to dad who presents no symptoms, and he then brings it into the clubhouse and spreads it around before the next roiund of routine tests.

As for personal protection, it would probably be a bad a idea to be standing shoulder to shoulder in a yelling rally crowd that is not wearing masks. Crowded dance floors, bars, restaurants, theaters, frat parties, whatnot--not a good idea.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Some of the protocols that people have developed a cult following around don’t have any discernible effect.

For instance?

 

[Dantés]

For instance?

Universal masking.

 

[Poppa San]

For instance?

Changing clothes in the garage when you get home, wiping your groceries with disinfectant wipes, leaving your mail set for a week in the garage before opening. I am a member of a different board with multiple posters that do all of these. Some work from home or are retired and have everything delivered. One posted she ventured out a few weeks ago to the doctor. First time she's left her residence since March.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Universal masking.

I think there's sufficient evidence that it's a good idea. You can't go by the WHO; they only recently concluded Covid-19 might be an airborne virus.

As the Mayo Clinic advises, even ordinary non-surgical cloth masks will trap some droplets on the part of both the giver and receiver potentially reducing viral loads in those who come in contact.

The viral load theory is not proven with repect to Covid-19, however immune response to viral infections in general adheres to that theory--the fewer and smaller the viral particles the immune system has to fight off the better job it will do. You can wait around to get some definitive study demonstrating that Covid-19 does or does not adhere to this theory but you'll be waiting a long time. It would be unethical to run a controlled test. If the viral load theory did not hold that would be rather unique in the behavior of immune response so reasonable precautions are in order.

It's a risk/reward proposition. What's the risk in wearing a mask when in public? An inconvience? A minor discomfort? Steamed up glasses at times? Some folks with breathing difficulties might have have an issue with it and should consider other precautions being in an at-risk category to begin with. The reward is that the viral theory holds which has a good chance of being true.

One thing we do know epidemiologically speaking: places with lax or non-existant regulations spike; those with mask wearing and distancing protocols in varying degrees up through shut downs and lockdowns show declining incidence.

Every attempt to downplay the severity of this pandemic has had to be walked back. Now we're down to parsing whether the positive affects are limited to distancing while an unproven but compelling theory is ignored?

"My American freedoms" is a ludicrous excuse for not wearing a mask. There are a million ways in which law and regulation controls one's life in untold numbers of ways one never thinks about and which are largely to one's benefit. The world and the law may also have injustices which are duly protested or taken to court. Having to wear a mask, which nobody likes, doesn't rise to the level of any meaningful protest. It's a shallow symbol of independence.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Changing clothes in the garage when you get home, wiping your groceries with disinfectant wipes, leaving your mail set for a week in the garage before opening. I am a member of a different board with multiple posters that do all of these. Some work from home or are retired and have everything delivered. One posted she ventured out a few weeks ago to the doctor. First time she's left her residence since March.

That's overkill. There is always a point where reducing risk reaches a point of diminishing returns. If infection rates are high or spiking you might want to be little more careful in your social distancing. There's not much evidence that you can get sick picking it up off a surface, especially soft surfaces. I believe the current studies show the longest the virus is surface-viable is on hard surfaces for up to two days. Then there's the question of whether there would be sufficient load when touching a surface as opposed to somebody coughing in your face. If somebody was that worried they should sanitize their hands, unpack their stuff, then sanatize again. I hope they have heated garages come winter.

As for the person who has not ventured out since March that might be prudent if she was in a high risk category, say cardiopulmony disease or any immune deficiency or any number of things. Half the population is at risk when you toss in smokers, the obese, diabetics, asthmatics, and whole panoply of pre-existing conditions. You have to assess your own risk and what you give up in exchange by locking yourself away.

 

[AKCheese]

I think we’ll get a couple more games in but I forsee things crumbling

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

"My American freedoms" is a ludicrous excuse for not wearing a mask. There are a million ways in which law and regulation controls one's life in untold numbers of ways one never thinks about and which are largely to one's benefit. The world and the law may also have injustices which are duly protested or taken to court. Having to wear a mask, which nobody likes, doesn't rise to the level of any meaningful protest. It's a shallow symbol of independence.

Amen


I'm hopeful but skeptical that the NFL will be able to complete a full season. They are in a situation that pretty much relies on everyone to cooperate fully with the protocols set forth by the league, under the direction of a lot of experts. That might happen, but as we have seen outside of football, all it takes are a few people who think they know more than the experts or they just feel the rules don't apply to them and its game over.

 

[PikeBadger]

I think as we have seen in other aspects of life, the results tend to be based on how serious you take the threat and how well you follow the known preventive measures. I think we saw that happen in the NBA and MLB. Right out of the gate there were issues and I believe that was a good wakeup call to the rest of the teams "follow the safety guidelines and we may do better." We can only hope that incidents like these will help others to do better and the NFL can have a season. I have less confidence that Colleges will be able to complete a season.

I have a lot of confidence that the season will play out. I’m of the opinion, if a few games out of the 256 scheduled don’t get played, so what. It used to be fairly common that a couple of MLB rainouts would not get rescheduled. The NFL used to play a 14 game schedule. If the league had to adapt and scale it back to 14, so what. It doesn’t make the season illegitimate in any way. I think colleges will complete their season as well.