1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Announcement is LIVE: Read the Forum Post

Why the Hate for EDS?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by BorderRivals.com, Jan 7, 2014.

  1. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    594
    Ratings:
    +499
    Throughout these threads, people are arguing that EDS is this liability and needs to be replaced. I don't understand this take. Someone on a thread posted that profootballreference (or something like that) rated him as the 8th best center. Regardless if he's the 8th best or more middle of the pack, I thought either bears out what I saw. He seemed to be a very serviceable player that wasn't a liability. And we have to remember, this was his first season starting. He's a young player that is only getting better. And perhaps just as important, Rodgers seems to trust him. To me, resigning him should be one of our priorities because he probably won't cost too much and he's a good center that should only get better with time and experience. Of course, this is contingent upon him being available for a fair price, which I think we can get him for.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  2. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    3,297
    Ratings:
    +1,890
    I wouldn`t say he was anything special, but he does his job. I could think of some who are in need of a reality check. Funny enough I felt Tramon Williams got run down quite a bit in the season, and I am a fan of his.
     
  3. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,889
    Ratings:
    +1,679
    EDS was good.
    Better than average, for sure, and getting better.

    Good topic.
    Many fans have no clue about him. He's not a problem. He should be the guy for a half-decade now.....

    Lotta other holes though on the defense.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,241
    Ratings:
    +2,408
    It's the idea that re-signing him should be some kind of priority, which would imply paying a market rate which would probably in the neighborhood of $3.0 - $3.5 mil per year.

    Our cap commitments to the top 51 guys already under contract for 2014 are $108 mil. That's without signing anybody...any of our own FA's, any other FA, any draftee.

    On Dec. 11, the league announced a $126 mil preliminary cap projection for 2014.

    Here's the basic math:

    Projected cap: $126 mil (preliminary)
    Current committments: - 109 mil (per overthecap.com)
    Cap carryover: +10 mil (per Joel Corey, cbssports.com)
    Draftees: -3 mil (my estimate of the net cost of replacing minimum salary guys)
    In-season reserve: -5 mil (my estimate of the minimum for IR replacements; that's the amount the Pack carried in 2012)

    Net available: =19 mil net for all free agent signings

    That might sound like a lot, but if one values some combination of the other 19 FAs it isn't. For example, Shields, Quarless, Flynn, James Jones, Pickett and Lattimore or Francois would take up that $19 mil. That's just an example and not an endorsement...pick your own names. And this does not include any market FAs.

    Further, should we be keeping some additional cap in reserve for carryover to 2015? It's one thing to say we're working with $136 mil in cap; it's another to take a major drop in cap space the next year without any carryover.

    The roster of 2015 FAs are as follows: Barclay (restricted), Boykin (restricted), Bulaga, Bush, Cobb, DuJuan Harris, House, Nelson, Richardson (restricted), Ryan Taylor, Tolzien, Van Roten (restricted), Tramon Williams.

    I find more value in the 2015 FA group (and a lot of $ associated with Nelson and Cobb) than this year's, including our entire WR corp if Jones is not resigned. In this light, Jones may be more of a priority this year than initially meets the eye as insurance against a 2015 Nelson loss to FA. Otherwise, we'd need to go high in the draft for a WR this year to have him ready for 2015 when there are more pressing needs on D.

    I had thought we could pick up a chunk of cap space this year (around $7 mil) by releasing T. Williams, but then the son of a gun started playing like a Pro Bowler again the last 3-4 weeks.

    In this light, focusing on a guy who is at best an average center seems out of proportion to the overall set of issues.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2014
    • Informative Informative x 4
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,889
    Ratings:
    +1,679
    Speaking of Tramon:

    Tramon let it slip what the veterans feel like with all these mistakes in Capers system:

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ys-on-defense/

    ...His feeling that the team needed a more pronounced veteran presence with General Manager Ted Thompson.

    You’re challenged with young guys,” Williams said, via the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. “Talented, young guys get played, but the game is still fast for them because they don’t understand what teams are trying to do, they don’t understand the scheme fully, they don’t understand what the scheme can do for them, if they understand it. … That’s what you’re faced with, with young guys.


    It’s an old league, too, because old guys make the league go.”
     
  6. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,736
    Ratings:
    +807
    He makes excellent points.
     
  7. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,241
    Ratings:
    +2,408
    Over the last couple of months I've been questioning the suitability of Capers' system for a team that relies on a youth revolving door. The Rodgers and Matthews contracts coupled with the flattish salary cap don't bode well for the foreseeable future.

    Williams should be careful.

    Questioning Caper's failure to make adjustments in last season's playoff loss was part of the reason for Woodson's firing. Williams is scheduled to make $7.5 mil next season with a $9.5 mil cap hit and only $2 mil in dead cap if released and he's going on the record about personnel decisions? I hope he doesn't think 3 or 4 good games heading into off season is a get-out-of-jail-free card.

    Only the failure to sign Shields should give Williams some sense of job security.

    We should just say Capers is a good coach in the right situation, like 2010, but is not suited to a team with a youth revolving door. A veteran team that is under-performing and needs a shake-up might be a better fit, while a like shake-up in Green Bay might clean up some of this past season's evident complacency.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2014
  8. lambeaulambo

    lambeaulambo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Messages:
    537
    Ratings:
    +180
    EDS got pushed back into the qb a lot this year, that is why a lot of people are saying let him walk. Just a guy. I agree. We need a bulldozer to double and push up the middle. EDS is not that type of player. Sick of mediocrity on the OL right? Replace the "guys" with more capable lineman that have a bit of nasty in them.
     
  9. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,755
    Ratings:
    +1,019
    Bulldozer like guys are not easy to find. EDS is solid. Keep him.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,905
    Ratings:
    +838
    I think EDS improved a lot over the season. He seemed unable to make the line calls correctly early on but improved with experience. I also applaud his ability to take a licking and keep on ticking. He went down twice this year and came right back the next game instead of getting sucked into the injured black hole.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,128
    Ratings:
    +4,083
    I want to scream all of this to the people who want us to sign Byrd or Graham.
     
  12. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,128
    Ratings:
    +4,083
    EDS is a reasonable priced FA that we should attempt to resign. His play was quality this season.

    The site was Pro Football Focus
     
  13. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,042
    Ratings:
    +965
    EDS was solid. Maybe not the best in the game, but far from the worst. I'd keep him and keep developing Tretter.
     
  14. Whatthehellsgoinonouthere

    Whatthehellsgoinonouthere Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    350
    Ratings:
    +69
    EDS is not the first guy I would've chosen to be the center on this team. Ted didn't draft anyone in my top 5, so we've got what we've got. I noticed at times that we had alot of pressure in the quarterbacks face comin' right down the barrel, so our interior line has issues. Whether it's EDS, Sitton or Lang I'm not sure anymore.
     
  15. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,570
    Ratings:
    +1,457
    There's a lot to agree with here. As pointed out, this was EDS first year as a full-time starter. The center makes all of the line calls. While he handled them decently well, an off-season of study and work should produce improvements in his recognition and ability to make line calls. When the mental part is set, it makes it easier for linemen to focus on the physical part.

    We have enough holes on the roster that center shouldn't not be addressed except for identifying a credible backup center.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,936
    Ratings:
    +3,031
    Where did fans get the idea they know what the line calls are and what they should have been?

    According to some sources, Rodgers lobbied for EDS to take over for Saturday and he's comfortable with him, so my guess is they'll retain EDS and probably at a reasonable cost.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,105
    Ratings:
    +394
    That was the rumor and from what I have heard Rodgers say about him, I would believe it. I don't think there is a guy Rodgers has been more outspoken about regarding the O-Line. I think he played fine and like I said, I think our current O-line can be very good as long as we get teams on their heals a little like what happened on a few drives last Sunday. I think EDS is the real deal.
     
  18. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,241
    Ratings:
    +2,408
    Rodgers stopped lobbying for players this past off season, and I expect he will continue to refrain beyond perfunctory "I'd like see him back but I understand it's a business" commentary.

    Stumping for players places him a precarious position, particularly with the new contract which makes him the lead stakeholder in the organization given that no one person has an equity position. (That's how a guy like Favre can come to such a sense of entitlement!)

    Besides being an organization-first guy by necessity under his franchise deal, Rodgers opens himself up to embarrassment if he publicly stumps.

    First there was his stumping for Wells whom TT decided was not worth his market value. It should be noted from that case that neither Rodgers' wishes, the ability to call the line, nor the ability to break guys down at the second level, for that matter, were not the preeminent determinants. It did not reflect well on Rodgers when the organization did not follow his wishes. That was followed up with the James Jones decision, another guy Rodgers stumped for in the press. We let him go too based on the perceived cost/value proposition and only by serendipity (or at least factors outside of the Packer's control) was he able to return.

    It would appear Rodgers learned some lessons which might account for his near silence on the Jennings matter, or at least his thoughts were prudently kept behind closed doors.

    So, the response to this might be, "But EDS won't cost as much as Wells". That's true. But he's not as good a player either. I would caution enthusiasm for the prospect of a returning EDS. We have a decent amount of money tied up with Sitton and Lang. Bulaga is coming up for renewal after 2014 and he will be quite expensive if he returns to form. While Sherrod is not that expensive under the new CBA rookie scale, there's money tied up there for one more year with some question as to whether we'll have anything to show for it. There's a limit to how much will be budgeted for the O-Line.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2014
  19. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,241
    Ratings:
    +2,408
    This was a duplicate message posted by mistake, since edited.

    What ever happened to the "delete" function?
     

Share This Page