Where Will Packers New Management Structure Take Us?

[Pokerbrat2000]

Interesting article by Silverstein. Most of the information was already out there, but I like the way he pieces it all together. I can see where some are concerned with the new structure, but without an Owner, it seems to have basically fallen into place this way. Sure it could turn out bad, but I also see a lot of good that could come from it. The key is having all 3, Gute, MLF and Ball (4 with Murphy) working well together.

Thoughts?

https://eu.packersnews.com/story/sp...-packers-new-management-structure/1142267001/

 

[longtimefan]

PaY site.. Blahhhhh

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

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[longtimefan]

A way around that is go incognito and then paste the URL in that Browser.

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[Pokerbrat2000]

You know our rule on pay sites?

No copying and pasting of articles

Your link says EU... I know what you did

I thought you could still link it? I assumed you just couldn't copy and paste its content?

I can take it down if you wish?

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Interesting article by Silverstein. Most of the information was already out there, but I like the way he pieces it all together. I can see where some are concerned with the new structure, but without an Owner, it seems to have basically fallen into place this way. Sure it could turn out bad, but I also see a lot of good that could come from it. The key is having all 3, Gute, MLF and Ball (4 with Murphy) working well together.

Thoughts?

https://eu.packersnews.com/story/sp...-packers-new-management-structure/1142267001/

Well, perhaps maybe now we should blame Ball if these draft picks fail. This putting two chefs in the kitchen (Gute and Ball) is imo worse than when Harlan gave Mike Sherman GM control on top of his coaching. At least he explained his reasoning for it and later said he was sorry he did that.

 

[sschind]

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[gbgary]

i've said all along that murphy had to take on the defacto owner's roll. i've also said ball is the one to keep an eye on. he needs to stay in his lane. it's worrisome to me that it appears ball has a leg up on the others.

 

[weeds]

Lindy Infante and Tom Bratz....how'd that work?

 

[longtimefan]

I thought you could still link it? I assumed you just couldn't copy and paste its content?

I can take it down if you wish?

No ur good.. Just reminding

 

[weeds]

A way around that is go incognito and then paste the URL in that Browser.

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[Pokerbrat2000]

You know our rule on pay sites?

No copying and pasting of articles

Your link says EU... I know what you did

No ur good.. Just reminding

It is an interesting point though. With the way the internet and all of the social media sites out there operate, people are reposting pictures, quotes, articles, etc. What technically is legal or illegal to repost?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Well, perhaps maybe now we should blame Ball if these draft picks fail. This putting two chefs in the kitchen (Gute and Ball) is imo worse than when Harlan gave Mike Sherman GM control on top of his coaching. At least he explained his reasoning for it and later said he was sorry he did that.

I don't like Murphy being more involved and seemingly Ball having a bigger role than under Thompson but to compare the current front office to the time when Sherman was general manager is ridiculous.

 

[Mondio]

pro's and con's to it all. If they work together well, it's great, when they don't it will cause problems. No different than owner/GM relationships. What happens when you have an owner that thinks he's smarter than the GM? what happens when an owner doesn't know what GM to hire? or any other myriad of problems than can arise

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

pro's and con's to it all. If they work together well, it's great, when they don't it will cause problems. No different than owner/GM relationships. What happens when you have an owner that thinks he's smarter than the GM? what happens when an owner doesn't know what GM to hire? or any other myriad of problems than can arise

Agree, I get the sense that Silverstein and some others are just trying to lay the groundwork, in the event of the proverbial "I told you so moment" happening.

 

[gbgary]

Well, perhaps maybe now we should blame Ball if these draft picks fail. This putting two chefs in the kitchen (Gute and Ball) is imo worse than when Harlan gave Mike Sherman GM control on top of his coaching. At least he explained his reasoning for it and later said he was sorry he did that.

only 14-17, and only partly, as others had a voice too, but mainly him. 18 and 19 are gute's guys. hopefully ball will grow weary and move on, and gute takes a bigger roll as he gets more experienced.

 

[XPack]

I don't think it's a good structure. You'd need to have the coach and personnel manager reporting into the GM. Both of them often would have conflicting views of changes to the team.

• Coach will typically have a tactical view (1-2 years) of success, whereas
• Personnel manager will have a strategic view (3-5 years based on contracts) of how to mould the team.

It's up to the GM to weigh the pros and cons of both and cast the deciding vote during such cases.

Having all 3 report to Murphy is just nonsense and I don't see this being efficient or effective. To make this work, all 3 must ideally have same visions of the near and far future of the team and that is a very unreasonable expectation.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I don't like Murphy being more involved and seemingly Ball having a bigger role than under Thompson but to compare the current front office to the time when Sherman was general manager is ridiculous.

I think you misunderstood my point. I wasn't comparing in terms of results, obviously those speak for themselves. I was comparing in terms of decisions.

The results have yet to play out in terms of how Murphy's new goofy setup plays out, but I don't like that seems to have broken up the GM house with the Ball house. My point wasn't about Sherman's success or failure as a GM. The point was Harlan "wrestled" with the idea of doing it as he explained here and then later regretted

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...harlan-regrets-making-mike-sherman-packers-gm

My problem is I don't like that Murphy didn't just trust Gute to just take over Ted Thompson's office as is because this current setup should not be the way it's done.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

My problem is I don't like that Murphy didn't just trust Gute to just take over Ted Thompson's office as is because this current setup should not be the way it's done.

Keep in mind though Murphy has been preaching "accountability" and him just slipping back into the shadows doesn't really fit that battle cry. The current structure could very well be temporary and as things move forward, change is bound to happen. If the Packers get back to their winning ways, we may see less and less of Murphy and Ball. Although, we never see Ball, does he exist?

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I guess to me, I just consider the structure we had when Wolf and Thompson were here was working well enough that it wasn't broken and shouldn't be fixed. It wasn't a matter of the structure being bad, it was two certain events that happened that when GMs stepped down, we didn't have a true apprentice/successor in waiting.

For example:

2001: Ron Wolf suddenly retired out of the blue and Harlan was left scrambling to get the next guy. He realized he could either hire an outside guy to take over Wolf's office and try to work with Sherman, or he could just put his head coach in the GM chair too assuming that it would bring continuity to how Wolf had done things. So he did the latter and changed the structure by having a HC and GM all in one, a move that ended up backfiring, and hence he put back the old structure in 2005.

2018: We realize Ted Thompson's health had become worse than we had realized, so he steps down and then Murphy now changes to the structure. To me, I think Murphy should have kept a better eye on TT's health condition and someone should have been at the ready to step in once he stepped down. Just like in Baltimore Ozzie Newsome got beyond his years so they had the new guy Eric DeCosta step in after being under his wing, but they kept the structure in place.

 

[mradtke66]

It seems risky to us, because it's just not the way the Packers have done things.

This might work out fine, it may not. But I'll withhold judgement until we see the impact on the product.

Doing things "the way we've always done them," can lead to some strange results when circumstances change.

"In Zig Ziglar’s ham story, he describes how the bride in a newly married couple cut off the end of the ham before baking it. Her husband asked why. The wife responded that her mother always cut of the end of the ham and that was the way it was supposed to be.

Not accepting “the way it was supposed to be,” the husband called his mother-in-law and asked why she cut of the end of the ham before baking. The response was that her mother cut of the end of the ham.

More curious than ever, the husband called grandma and asked her why she cut off the end of the ham. The answer was that she had a small oven and that was the only way to get the ham to fit.

Grandma had a reason for cutting off the end of the ham. The next two generations did not. They were blindly following custom without rhyme or reason. It was “the way it was supposed to be.”

How many of your customs do you follow because you perceive them to be the way they are supposed to be? Probably several."

 

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

The current structure could very well be temporary and as things move forward, change is bound to happen. If the Packers get back to their winning ways, we may see less and less of Murphy and Ball.

This is my way of thinking also.
Give it a try, but if it doesn't work, make sure we have the right people in here to make it work.

This game is changing for year to year just like the rules in the NFL, so let's give anything a try.
It has to be better then the last two years struggling just to keep over QA up-right and key players healthy.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I guess to me, I just consider the structure we had when Wolf and Thompson were here was working well enough that it wasn't broken and shouldn't be fixed.

Some might argue that the structure didn't work during Thompson's last 3-5 years and maybe that is not only what caused the Packers spiral down but necessitated the need for more checks and balances. Teddy was doing a great job running things for awhile, but with talk about his health starting to decline as early as 2013 and some questionable decisions, I kind of prefer having a few more cooks in the kitchen to keep their eyes on each other.

 

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

It is an interesting point though. With the way the internet and all of the social media sites out there operate, people are reposting pictures, quotes, articles, etc. What technically is legal or illegal to repost?

Wow, this is interesting stuff on what's legal or not,

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This is my way of thinking also.
Give it a try, but if it doesn't work, make sure we have the right people in here to make it work.

This game is changing for year to year just like the rules in the NFL, so let's give anything a try.
It has to be better then the last two years struggling just to keep over QA up-right and key players healthy.

A great point. This isn't the days of old where everything was written on paper, mailed and talked about over the phone. Technology has sped things up dramatically and in the process made it more necessary to have not only tech savvy people working in the trenches, but the people making the decisions knowledgeable and on board with a fast paced technology driven process. People who can sift through, process and make good decisions based on a plethora of information they now have access to.

Holmgren wouldn't be calling Reggie on the phone to tell him that God wants him in Green Bay, he would be tweeting it!