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There's only one question left...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by HardRightEdge, Nov 28, 2013.

  1. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    So if the players don't execute and Capers can't get them to execute did TT just make poor draft choices?
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
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  2. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    What makes you think that's McCarthy's call?
    I agree with most of that list, but most of those guys are not starters. Starks and Newhouse are not, and I wouldn't count Neal since he fell into it with the Perry injuries.

    Among the starters, my money is on Finley, Raji and Tramon Williams.

    I'm tempted to add Jennings, but he's cheap enough to hang around on the bench. I suspect EDS will still be around. I'd be least confident about Jones one way or the other; a lot depends on Cobb's rehab progress come FA time. Pickett's certainly a question mark; he hasn't looked the same since complaining his knees were bothering him. If one or two out of that group of 4 were gone I certainly would not be surprised.

    I put the over/under at 7 because I expect some coach firings. If Capers sticks, then the axe will fall further down the line. They simply cannot stand pat with this performance.
     
  3. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    In hindsight, with the extreme reliance that this team has on draft picks, yeah, Thompson had an underwhelming 2011, 2012 and 2013 draft. Might they turn it around? Sure, but if that's the case then Capers isn't at fault either, it's just bad luck. I really have no problem with the draft picks, my main issue is that TT's stubborn avoidance of free agency leaves this team with no reliable veteran presence at a number of key positions. We don't have to go out and sign high priced guys but maybe a veteran OLB to backup Perry and CM3 could help push Perry during camp or make him feel more rushed to get back on the field. Maybe a veteran safety next to Burnett (even Roman at this point) could help stabilize the secondary.
     
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  4. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Good question. The short answer, from my perspective, is that not getting Raji signed is a "firing".

    We'll probably never know, but if the $8 million/year offer was light on the signing bonus and guarantees, it was a contract offer intended not to be accepted or, at best, a "re-prove yourself" offer with an easy out in 2015 if he didn't step up his game. That's the kind of deal Finley signed. If that same type of deal was offered to Raji, the expectation should have been he'd not likely sign it.

    One also wonders if the alleged $10 mil/year offered to Jennings before his 2012 injury, which he turned down, was also designed to not be accepted. We'll probably never know about that one either.

    One thing you can be sure of...when players with those resumes, at those positions, offered those $ are not happy, you can bet they don't like the bonus/guarantee components.

    As for Finley, unlike Collins he immediately stated his intent to play again and so far has stuck to it. If that's his stance come FA time and we don't sign him, I'd consider that a firing. The parallel situation, on a much grander scale, was the Colts deciding not to sign Peyton Manning. I think we can agree that the Colts fired Manning.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  5. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    If it is not his his call, there is something wrong with Ted Thompson. I am fairly certain the HEAD coach make all coaching personnel decisions under him other than pay, I am sure that goes through the GM but if MM wants to hire someone or get rid of someone, it is his choice.
     
  6. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I think that sums up the problem in a nutshell. It has less to do with winning and losing than poor effort on the defensive side of the ball. Somebody has to take the heat if "accountability" is anything more than lip service.

    It won't be TT, but maybe it should be. As his surrounding brain trust has peeled off for bigger and better jobs, the emperor is looking a bit under dressed.

    You can't fire the players on a wholesale basis (see KC with the 30+ roster turnover this past off season) without first firing the guy who assembled the team. Again, TT is not going anywhere.

    That leaves selected players and coaches.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
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  7. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I doubt it's ever that simple unless you're a HOF head coach with a weak general manager. In this situation I believe TT and MM would have to be in agreement to make the move.
     
  8. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    The 7-9 Seahawks of 2010 were a lot better than their record reflected and got in because they won the division. (If you'd like to draw some parallels) Are we winning out and gaining a game on the Lions? Serious question.

    Heck of a lot more football to play after just 6 games. At this point there is only 4 games left in the regular season.
     
  9. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    I highly doubt it, no good GM will ever be in a head coach's business unless he is hiring or firing that coach. See Al Davis and Jerry Jones. Two really, really bad GM's because they think they no more about football than they really do and did.

    I would be willing to bet that while MM listens to TT's thoughts on the matter the final decision on the hire of the coach is MM.
     
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  10. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    GM's are always in head coaches business. As a starting point, they select their players for them.

    A major decision such as firing a coordinator is bound to be an organizational decision.
     
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  11. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    My point was is that it didn't seem likely they would win and they did.

    How about the 3-6 Redskins winning seven in a row last season to make it in? I don't care how unlikely it looks that the Packers win out and the Lions lose two. As long as it's possible, the season isn't over.
     
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  12. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    Sunshine,
    It's not stubborn. It's smart. Older guys get injured more often. The roster is limited to 53. They have trouble keeping enough healthy O-lineman as it is. So you want to just jettison the future and put an old vet in the place of your future? You can't have it both ways.
    In your example, you get an old veteran OLB right? Which young OLB do you get rid of? Mulumba? Palmer?
     
  13. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    I thought the question would be:
    Ask not what the Packers can do for you. Ask what you can do for the Packers.
     
  14. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

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    Did JFK play football or was he just a cheerleader at one of those fairy universities in New England? Maybe it was Dubya who was a cheerleader at Yale. Maybe both were on cheerleader IR. I can't remember.
     
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  15. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Sandolf ??? Are you slowly coming over to the dark side ??....lol ;)
     
  16. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    How much of either of those guys helped the team this year? A backup at OLB doesn't need to be relied upon to be healthy for 16 games (though with our OLBs that might be a requirement). A well built team doesn't have to have "future" players at every position, a few solid, unexciting, you know what you're getting vets can really help a team.
     
  17. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

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    I think when the 'Muricans saw so many Blacks and Native Indians defecting over to our side in the War of 1812, they in turn saw some real benefits to Canada. Their policy is that we can take the piss out of them all we want until they run out of money or fresh water... (at which point all deals are off). :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
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  18. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I MEANT are you slowly becoming a Packer fan, but your version was funnier :laugh:
     
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  19. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    They've helped out plenty. When Clay and Perry were down they filled in. Name one example of a FA who you'd rather have than Mulumba? I know you can find one for Palmer lol but you get my point.
     
  20. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Connor Barwin - signed with the Eagles for a reported 6-year $36m but it's really only a two year $8m deal since none of the rest is guaranteed. He's 26 so he's not old and he had 11.5 sacks in 2011.

    Manny Lawson - signed with Bills for 4 years at $12m but only $4.6m is guaranteed. Older at 29 but still effective and he's cheap.

    That's two I can think of right now.
     
  21. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    If I'm doing my math correct that's one heck of a lot more than Mulumba is getting.
     
  22. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    And both would be helping the team a heck of a lot more than Mulamba has helped. It's not like we're terribly tight against the cap this year.
     
  23. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    We have a future to worry about. I think that keeping james jones and jordy nelson is kinda important.
     
  24. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    And yet you have no problem with us paying out $8M a year for an ineffective Raji.

    I am not advocating that there is a FA OLB that we should have signed, I think our depth was adequate especially with Neal, and when your starters miss significant time you just have to deal with what you have.

    That said, you don't make personnel decisions or avoid signing FA's because of the Mulumbas and the Palmers of the world. For every Sam Shields that you find among those diamonds, you get 20 guys who come and go like Moses, Zombo, DJ Smith, McMillian, etc.

    In fact I could argue that this very strategy backfired against us this year at safety when we over-invested in Jennings and McMillian and avoided filling the hole at safety.
     
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  25. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    We have a future yes but Rodgers isn't getting any younger. The Packers have a finite Super Bowl window. You can't always structure the team for tomorrow. There are certain positions that are more important than others. In the 3-4 you have to have a good NT and good OLBs. Having good backups at those positions is just a smart idea.
     

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