The Unsung Linchpin of 2023

[Mondio]

I’m always on somebody’s, I’m used to it

 

[OldSchool101]

Post #110.

oh I see where you got that from. You think I personally walk around disappointed all day long each day because we didn’t win a SB. To the point I can’t stand to watch games?
I guess we all get disappointed for a short time immediately after each loss. I love my Packers I’m not going to stop watching them because you think I’m sad

I will say I am definitely disappointed we only have 2 SB’s to show for 30 years of HOF QB’s. But that’s another matter altogether. That’s not on Jordan Love either or Gutenkunst for that matter. Those are excuses. Imo we’ve had plenty of talent to Win.., I don’t buy all the excuses about 1 later round draft pick being the thorn in all our woes or meager attempts to dissuade responsibility of our HOF QB’s underperforming when it mattered.

 

[OldSchool101]

Our Defense needs to step up big time. Barry will be short on excuses if we don’t crack a top 10 Defense this season. Really should be in that top 6-8 area with all the resources we’ve poured into D.
If each Defensive player plays just a little better than last season we could at least remain competitive this season. The Offense will regress a little, but also could be inspired by our Defense to keep it closer to 2022 level competitive IF the Defense keeps us in games.

 

[PikeBadger]

True. I even agree or “like” with Captain’s post quite often. Albeit, it’s only 1 in every 275 comments, but that’s like every other day. Just having fun

Lol, you're in the running for post of the year with this comment.

 

[PikeBadger]

Our Defense needs to step up big time. Barry will be short on excuses if we don’t crack a top 10 Defense this season. Really should be in that top 6-8 area with all the resources we’ve poured into D.
If each Defensive player plays just a little better than last season we could at least remain competitive this season. The Offense will regress a little, but also could be inspired by our Defense to keep it closer to 2022 level competitive IF the Defense keeps us in games.

I'll be quite surprised if our offense regresses from last season. That was a flat out ugly 17 game performance.

 

[PikeBadger]

It's all but guaranteed that any other player selected instead of Love would have had a bigger impact over the past three years. Even if he didn't end up as a core player.

To which I reply so what???

Using your philosophy, a GM could easily pass over superior talent to fill perceived immediate needs which I would argue is a very bad model to use (especially in the first round) and would lead to bypassing guys like Rodgers, Clark and Gary. All of whom needed refinement and/or time to physically or mentally mature. Imo, it leads to drafting guys like Dix. This is the Bears and Vikings way of drafting (jump for needs), and I don't want to end up like them for sure.

It's all a matter of draft philosophy and discipline.

 

[OldSchool101]

To which I reply so what???

Using your philosophy, a GM could easily pass over superior talent to fill perceived immediate needs which I would argue is a very bad model to use (especially in the first round) and would lead to bypassing guys like Rodgers, Clark and Gary. All of whom needed refinement and/or time to physically or mentally mature. Imo, it leads to drafting guys like Dix. This is the Bears and Vikings way of drafting (jump for needs), and I don't want to end up like them for sure.

It's all a matter of draft philosophy and discipline.

Exactly. We could've either pushed for the immediate 1-2 years by reaching a little at #26-#30 overall on a 2020 WR, which is totally inconsistent with what’s worked over decades. That or start looking to the next 15 years. Had Rodgers been 33 years old and coming off a 2019 MVP? Maybe switch gears there, but that was not the case at all.

We probably guessed wrong a little there as Rodgers returned to elite level in 2020. However if we use hindsight a second time I’d say we guessed correctly. Justin Jefferson was about the only player within reach in 2020 that was a true difference maker in his first 2 seasons. Anyone outside of that was a real long shot to advance us past maybe a game.
40-40 Deuce
Add-In = Gutenkunst

He made the correct decision even if Love flails because no Wideout left would’ve changed our overall status. If Jordan plays well he’ll be known as the GM that was smarter than everyone else combined.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That’s not on Jordan Love either or Gutenkunst for that matter. Those are excuses. Imo we’ve had plenty of talent to Win.., I don’t buy all the excuses about 1 later round draft pick being the thorn in all our woes or meager attempts to dissuade responsibility of our HOF QB’s underperforming when it mattered.

It's true Jordan Love isn't responsible for the Packers not having won a Super Bowl over the past three years. On the other hand Gutekunst deserves part of the blame.

BTW no one is suggesting a late rounder would have made a difference but the first rounder used on Love could have though.

I'll be quite surprised if our offense regresses from last season. That was a flat out ugly 17 game performance.

While the offense didn't perform up to expectations in 2022 the until still finished 14th in points scored in the league. It's to be expected this year's team will regress in that area.

Using your philosophy, a GM could easily pass over superior talent to fill perceived immediate needs which I would argue is a very bad model to use (especially in the first round) and would lead to bypassing guys like Rodgers, Clark and Gary. All of whom needed refinement and/or time to physically or mentally mature. Imo, it leads to drafting guys like Dix. This is the Bears and Vikings way of drafting (jump for needs), and I don't want to end up like them for sure.

It's all a matter of draft philosophy and discipline.

There's a huge difference in using a first rounder on players like Clark and Gary who ended up contributing during their rookie campaigns and becoming full time starters in their second and third seasons with the team respectively and a quarterback who had close to zero impact in his first three years with the team.

We probably guessed wrong a little there as Rodgers returned to elite level in 2020.

A little??? That's most likely the understatement of the year.

However if we use hindsight a second time I’d say we guessed correctly. Justin Jefferson was about the only player within reach in 2020 that was a true difference maker in his first 2 seasons. Anyone outside of that was a real long shot to advance us past maybe a game.

Well, it would have been enough if another player selected in the first round of the 2020 draft advanced us for another game

He made the correct decision even if Love flails because no Wideout left would’ve changed our overall status.

That's ridiculous. If Love ends up being a bust Gutekunst should be put on the hot seat immediately.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

To which I reply so what???

Using your philosophy, a GM could easily pass over superior talent to fill perceived immediate needs which I would argue is a very bad model to use (especially in the first round) and would lead to bypassing guys like Rodgers, Clark and Gary. All of whom needed refinement and/or time to physically or mentally mature. Imo, it leads to drafting guys like Dix. This is the Bears and Vikings way of drafting (jump for needs), and I don't want to end up like them for sure.

It's all a matter of draft philosophy and discipline.

Yes, if the GM was terrible and we ignored all context, such as a team vying for Super Bowls and whether the superior player drafted is meant to help said team WIN those Super Bowls or sit on the bench and watch his teammates on the field lose in the playoffs versus the lesser player being ON the field and helping the team win in the playoffs. Teams don't draft superior players all the time. Under your context-less model, a team with a high draft pick could draft a QB who shows a lot of promise during his rookie season but then, when his team has another high draft pick the following season, they draft the superior player who is another QB! Team building is important, not just collecting a bunch of superior players who can't be on the field at the same time.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Btw, my unsung linchpin for 2023 is Devonte Wyatt. If he can play the entire 2023 season like he did the final few games of last year, then the Packers will finally have a teammate who can take some pressure off of Clark. Though, now that I think about it, Barry will probably just drop Wyatt into zone coverage for some ridiculous reason.

 

[tynimiller]

Btw, my unsung linchpin for 2023 is Devonte Wyatt. If he can play the entire 2023 season like he did the final few games of last year, then the Packers will finally have a teammate who can take some pressure off of Clark. Though, now that I think about it, Barry will probably just drop Wyatt into zone coverage for some ridiculous reason.

I am both excited and fearful if Wyatt becomes what everyone thinks he is going to be as a prospect...because if he does the argument for continuing to pay Clark everything he is getting could draw an eye, especially if right before trade deadline we are setting winless...

 

[OldSchool101]

Well, it would have been enough if another player selected in the first round of the 2020 draft advanced us for another game

There was still no guarantee we’d win a SB. Even if said player was so dynamic that he made us advance one game you can’t assume it’s the last game. Plus we never got to a SB so that’s more than 1 game differential anyway. It was 2 games and possibly 3 in a Divisional to achieve the goal. Unless you think making it to a NFC game or SB and losing is a good outcome? I don’t.

That's ridiculous. If Love ends up being a bust Gutekunst should be put on the hot seat immediately.

Even IF (big IF) it was the case that one #26 overall selection made or broke a GM’s entire career? Nearly all the GM’s would be out of a job in a few years. The only reason you say he should be fired is because you side with Rodgers. That’s a knee-jerk reaction and should never be used to solely determine someone’s livelihood. This isn’t Super Nintendo

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I am both excited and fearful if Wyatt becomes what everyone thinks he is going to be as a prospect...because if he does the argument for continuing to pay Clark everything he is getting could draw an eye, especially if right before trade deadline we are setting winless...

The Packers don't save any cap space by trading Clark during the upcoming season, therefore I don't expect them to be interested in moving him. He's set to earn another $17 million in 2024 but even that doesn't seem to be outrageous in my opinion.

There was still no guarantee we’d win a SB. Even if said player was so dynamic that he made us advance one game you can’t assume it’s the last game. Plus we never got to a SB so that’s more than 1 game differential anyway. It was 2 games and possibly 3 in a Divisional to achieve the goal. Unless you think making it to a NFC game or SB and losing is a good outcome? I don’t.

As I have mentioned numerous times, I agree that the Packers selecting another prospect instead of Love doesn't guarantee the team ends up winning the Super Bowl. With that being said they were only one win away from making it to the Super Bowl in 2020. If they beat the Bucs in the NFCCG that year I'm convinced they would have beaten the Chiefs as well.

Even IF (big IF) it was the case that one #26 overall selection made or broke a GM’s entire career? Nearly all the GM’s would be out of a job in a few years. The only reason you say he should be fired is because you side with Rodgers. That’s a knee-jerk reaction and should never be used to solely determine someone’s livelihood.

You're fooling yourself if you believe that trading up for Love should be considered an ordinary late first round selection.

Gutekunst took a huge gamble on Love being the next franchise quarterback because otherwise there was absolutely no reason to select a quarterback at that point. The move resulted in the team's HOF QB getting pissed off as well as the most precious asset of the team being used on a prospect that hasn't had any impact so far on a contending team.

If it doesn't work out the general manager should rightfully be on the hot seat for it.

 

[OldSchool101]

If it doesn't work out the general manager should rightfully be on the hot seat for it.

Will you be as quick to promote him if it does work out?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Will you be as quick to promote him if it does work out?

Gutekunst would definitely deserve a ton of praise if the selection of Love ends up bringing another Lombardi Trophy to Titletown.