The Unsung Linchpin of 2023

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Two completely different things. 1. A couple of people say GB would have won a SB if they would have drafted a WR instead of Love. Multiple people express their disappointment in the drafting of Love. You continue to fail to distinguish the difference between the 2. That is pretty ludicrous IMO.
That’s absolutely, positively and unequivocally not true. I’ve specifically and repeatedly posted on numerous occasions (and been called out as a martyr by you) that
I did NOT want a QB in the 2020 draft.
You’re putting your ideas in my head and your rebellious thoughts are scaring me tender brain (Oh! TIC)
 
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Schultz

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Sure. I agree Tee Higgins is superior to Lazard in that general sense.
I also agree in what you said in bold. We needed more than Tee Higgins to bring us to the promise land. That’s what the argument is he’s trying to make. That Tee Higgins was the answer to all our Defensive and ST woes. I don’t believe that part. I’m not here to beat up on Tee Higgins he’s a fine player. Although imo Higgins might’ve even had slightly less yards with Rodgers over the last 3 seasons than he did with Burrow. Thus the divide is relatively small. We’re talking 15 yards a game area small.

Btw. I chose 2022 because it was a year that WR (Higgins and Lazard) BOTH had legitimate chances of breaking out as a true “WR1”
Neither became a bonafide WR1

2020 Higgins WR#28
2021 Higgins WR#17
2022 Higgins WR#20

Those aren’t “deal breaker” rankings for me.
Me thinks Jamar Chase had a lot to do with Tee not having WR1 numbers. You like to throw out numbers and estimates. What do you think Lazards numbers would have been if he had Chase on his team?
 
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Me thinks Jamar Chase had a lot to do with Tee not having WR1 numbers. You like to throw out numbers and estimates. What do you think Lazards numbers would have been if he had Chase on his team?
Playing for 2022 Burrow instead of 2022 “broken thumb” Rodgers??
I think Lazard comes close to the 1,000 mark with Burrow throwing it. I’ll say 925-950 yards. He’d split hairs with Tee Higgins type 1,029 yards stat if you switched the 2 (Lazard for Higgins)

You do realize Ja’marr Chase only played 12 games last year don’t you? Tee Higgins still could not beat him. Matter of fact Higgins regressed a smidge from 2021
 
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Schultz

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Playing for 2022 Burrow instead of 2022 “broken thumb” Rodgers??
I think Lazard comes close to the 1,000 mark with Burrow throwing it. I’ll say 925-950 yards. He’d split hairs with Tee Higgins type 1,029 yards stat if you switched the 2 (Lazard for Higgins)

You do realize Ja’marr Chase only played 12 games last year don’t you? Tee Higgins still could not beat him. Matter of fact Higgins regressed a smidge from 2021
As a receiver Lazard would be behind Boyd on the Bengals. IMO.
 

Heyjoe4

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I'm hoping that in a few years I can say I still say it was not the right pick at the time but it was absolutely the right pick - if you know what I mean. I think both items can have a lot of truth about them.
You’re right. And WTF Rodgers sat for three years behind Favre. Didn’t hurt him…..
 

Heyjoe4

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Playing for 2022 Burrow instead of 2022 “broken thumb” Rodgers??
I think Lazard comes close to the 1,000 mark with Burrow throwing it. I’ll say 925-950 yards. He’d split hairs with Tee Higgins type 1,029 yards stat if you switched the 2 (Lazard for Higgins)

You do realize Ja’marr Chase only played 12 games last year don’t you? Tee Higgins still could not beat him. Matter of fact Higgins regressed a smidge from 2021
I would not confuse Higgins with Lazard. For one thing, Lazard has reached his limit. He had a great chance to be a WR1 last year. He missed. He’s an ok WR, a solid #3 on most teams.
 
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I would not confuse Higgins with Lazard. For one thing, Lazard has reached his limit. He had a great chance to be a WR1 last year. He missed. He’s an ok WR, a solid #3 on most teams.
I never confused anyone. I said Higgins was superior to Lazard. I’ll give you benefit of the doubt that you are just not following the thread close enough.
I said there isn’t a big enough difference between those 2 WR to overcome deficiencies in 2020, 2021,2022 or 2023 for that matter! ST, Offense and Defensive woes and push us into a Lombardi Trophy Winners? Tee is not anywhere close to that much better. That’s a huge stretch saying he was the missing link for a Lombardi trophy.
That’s whats being sold and it’s just a super big reach. I’d give you or anyone else any season switching those 2 WR and I’d smooth slap down 10 Green Benjamin’s on a bet that the Packers still wouldn’t Win a Lombardi They are just mad we didn’t take a WR. I wanted a WR also but I still have enough discernment to see we had more problems than that little old difference.
 
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Heyjoe4

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I never confused anyone. I said Higgins was superior to Lazard. I’ll give you benefit of the doubt that you are just not following the thread close enough.
I said there isn’t a big enough difference between those 2 WR to overcome deficiencies in 2020, 2021,2022 or 2023 for that matter! ST, Offense and Defensive woes and push us into a Lombardi Trophy Winners? Tee is not anywhere close to that much better. That’s a huge stretch saying he was the missing link for a Lombardi trophy.
That’s whats being sold and it’s just a super big reach. I’d give you or anyone else any season switching those 2 WR and I’d smooth slap down 10 Green Benjamin’s on a bet that the Packers still wouldn’t Win a Lombardi They are just mad we didn’t take a WR. I wanted a WR also but I still have enough discernment to see we had more problems than that little old difference.
Sure, fine.
 

Schultz

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I never confused anyone. I said Higgins was superior to Lazard. I’ll give you benefit of the doubt that you are just not following the thread close enough.
I said there isn’t a big enough difference between those 2 WR to overcome deficiencies in 2020, 2021,2022 or 2023 for that matter! ST, Offense and Defensive woes and push us into a Lombardi Trophy Winners? Tee is not anywhere close to that much better. That’s a huge stretch saying he was the missing link for a Lombardi trophy.
That’s whats being sold and it’s just a super big reach. I’d give you or anyone else any season switching those 2 WR and I’d smooth slap down 10 Green Benjamin’s on a bet that the Packers still wouldn’t Win a Lombardi They are just mad we didn’t take a WR. I wanted a WR also but I still have enough discernment to see we had more problems than that little old difference.
1. Times that Oldschool has posted that someone said if we drafted a WR we would have won the SB. Somewhere between 19 & 23. Slightly TIC.
2. Times that people have posted if GB drafted a WR they would have won the SB. Somewhere between 5 & 8.
IMO of course.
 
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1. Times that Oldschool has posted that someone said if we drafted a WR we would have won the SB. Somewhere between 19 & 23. Slightly TIC.
2. Times that people have posted if GB drafted a WR they would have won the SB. Somewhere between 5 & 8.
IMO of course.
Yes and I’m so glad I’ve driven this point home for everyone because it’s extremely important, especially you Schultz because you’re not grasping it. We get sidetracked quite a bit (including myself) but I I should’ve said this more often…

In professional football all that really matters is winning a SB. Obviously we want fairness and to be kind and help community and all that also. Yet the goal of every player and coach and many fans is to Win a SB. Not finish with the best WR or have 3 WR1’s or a #1 Defense. It’s to WIN The Lombardi. We don’t need 2nd place accolades (oh! but we might’ve Won against this team or that team had we had Higgins) or regular season MVP’s and then we fade away into nothingness. I’ll trade all that for a well balanced team that plays like a TEAM mentality. I want a well rounded team that is about TEAM.
Not a QB with an attitude or grudge and poor communication skills that’s resolved to going through the motions and does only what’s absolutely imperative or required because they are “too good” for the sport and probably too good for humanity itself. That attitude is cancerous to our team and no WR alive can overcome it and we’ve witnessed how it festers 1st hand. Divisive is the word comes to mind.

What I’ve learned the hard way. The self loathing does not work. Not even an MVP QB who made league high $ can overcome his own self induced internal cancerous attitude. If #12 can’t overcome it?
I’m quite sure subbing in Tee Higgins for Allen Lazard is like flatulence into a front wind. It still doesn’t smell any better.

What smell do you get when you put a Rose next to a Turd?
 
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pacmaniac

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I’m quite sure subbing in Tee Higgins for Allen Lazard is like flatulence into a front wind.
Subbing in Higgins for Lazard changes nothing in that championship game against the Bucs. Lazard was wide open crossing the goal line. Put in Higgins and in the best case, he is also wide open crossing the goal line. Doesn't matter though since Rodgers had tunnel vision for Adams.
 

Schultz

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Yes and I’m so glad I’ve driven this point home for everyone because it’s extremely important, especially you Schultz because you’re not grasping it. We get sidetracked quite a bit (including myself) but I I should’ve said this more often…

In professional football all that really matters is winning a SB. Obviously we want fairness and to be kind and help community and all that also. Yet the goal of every player and coach and many fans is to Win a SB. Not finish with the best WR or have 3 WR1’s or a #1 Defense. It’s to WIN The Lombardi. We don’t need 2nd place accolades (oh! but we might’ve Won against this team or that team had we had Higgins) or regular season MVP’s and then we fade away into nothingness. I’ll trade all that for a well balanced team that plays like a TEAM mentality. I want a well rounded team that is about TEAM.
Not a QB with an attitude or grudge and poor communication skills that’s resolved to going through the motions and does only what’s absolutely imperative or required because they are “too good” for the sport and probably too good for humanity itself. That attitude is cancerous to our team and no WR alive can overcome it and we’ve witnessed how it festers 1st hand. Divisive is the word comes to mind.

What I’ve learned the hard way. The self loathing does not work. Not even an MVP QB who made league high $ can overcome his own self induced internal cancerous attitude. If #12 can’t overcome it?
I’m quite sure subbing in Tee Higgins for Allen Lazard is like flatulence into a front wind. It still doesn’t smell any better.

What smell do you get when you put a Rose next to a Turd?
At least you are consistent as you once again continue on your WR tirade when that is not the point I am making at all. This also explains a lot, you know that you are one of those SB or bust guys. That leads to a lot of disappointment. I will continue to be a fan of football in general and GB specifically. I will enjoy each and every win, while being saddened by any losses. I will do this from game 1 until game 17 (and hopefully more). If you have been that disappointed in GBs recent 13 win seasons you better buckle up for the next few (hopefully less) years.
 

Heyjoe4

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At least you are consistent as you once again continue on your WR tirade when that is not the point I am making at all. This also explains a lot, you know that you are one of those SB or bust guys. That leads to a lot of disappointment. I will continue to be a fan of football in general and GB specifically. I will enjoy each and every win, while being saddened by any losses. I will do this from game 1 until game 17 (and hopefully more). If you have been that disappointed in GBs recent 13 win seasons you better buckle up for the next few (hopefully less) years.
Point well made Schultz. Of course, Bill Bellichik said it - at the end of every season there is 1 winner and 31 plane crashes.

But that doesn't mean that the other 31 teams will enjoy their teams any less during the season. First we cheer for our team to get in the playoffs. Then we cheer for them to advance to the NFCCG (well, GB fans) and then the SB and to win.

We've won the SB twice with two HOF QBs. It would have been nice to have more, but it really doesn't make the journey (most years) any less enjoyable. It sure as hell beats being a Minnesota fan.
 

PikeBadger

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I'm hoping that in a few years I can say I still say it was not the right pick at the time but it was absolutely the right pick - if you know what I mean. I think both items can have a lot of truth about them.
I think it basically comes down to what your personal draft philosophy is as to whether you agree with the 2020 Love pick. Most people's draft philosophy is not going to be swayed by any posts on this forum imo.
 

Heyjoe4

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I think it basically comes down to what your personal draft philosophy is as to whether you agree with the 2020 Love pick. Most people's draft philosophy is not going to be swayed by any posts on this forum imo.
Your last point illustrates why arguments on here are so fruitless. No one will change their mind, much less admit that someone else made a good point.
 

Heyjoe4

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No one? That's definitely not true. Most people here are very good at acknowledging other poster's points they agree with.
Yeah I probably overstated that. Agreeing with a comment is one thing, and that does happen, as I'm doing right here. Changing an opinion is another matter.
 
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This also explains a lot, you know that you are one of those SB or bust guys. That leads to a lot of disappointment.

If you have been that disappointed in GBs recent 13 win seasons you better buckle up for the next few (hopefully less) years.
I’m nearly the opposite of everything you just said, so luckily I need not provide a defense.

Prove it
 
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In my world, an impact player is either one of the team's core players or very close to it. Not a complementary starter or player.

It's all but guaranteed that any other player selected instead of Love would have had a bigger impact over the past three years. Even if he didn't end up as a core player.

Oh absolutely. I take no issue with Capt or anyone saying Love hasn't done anything and in short term hindsight you cannot say his pick was needed or measurably good...now the issue would be if Love proves to be a starting QB for us over the next half dozen or more years if he continues to deny even long term hindsight proves worth it.

I would definitely agree that drafting Love worked out in the long haul if he develops into a good starter for the Packers.

Ludicrous?
2022
Tee Higgins
74/1029
13.9 per rec
7TD

2022
Joe Burrow
68.3% comp
4,475 yards
7.4 per attempt
35 TD 12 INT

—— ————————————-
2022
Allen Lazard
60/788
13.1 per rec
6TD
2022
Aaron Rodgers
64.6% comp
3,695 yards
6.8 per attempt
26 TD 12 INT

You’re saying basically 18 yards per game (best case and arguable more like 12-15 yards) makes us a perennial SB contender? I don’t buy this ludicrous that you guys are trying to sell us. Give me some Stefon Diggs area player or maybe Davante Adams or a Redzone threat like TE like Kelce and maybe I could get there (to a SB Win) in my imagination.

Lazard was the Packers' #1 receiver while Higgins was behind Chase on the Bengals' depth chart. Therefore him putting up significantly better numbers strongly indicates he's a much better pass catcher.

As a side note, I'm not suggesting drafting Higgins instead of Love would have turned the Packers into a perennial Super Bowl contender. First of all there was no need for that back in 2020 as they already were one at that point. But, he might have made a difference in playoff losses to the Bucs or the Niners.

Just for the record, I don't know about that but neither do you that it wouldn't have happened either.

I said there isn’t a big enough difference between those 2 WR to overcome deficiencies in 2020, 2021,2022 or 2023 for that matter! ST, Offense and Defensive woes and push us into a Lombardi Trophy Winners? Tee is not anywhere close to that much better. That’s a huge stretch saying he was the missing link for a Lombardi trophy.

Higgins put up better numbers in 2021 and came pretty close in '20 than Lazard did in those seasons combined. Once again, he would have significantly improved the talent level at wide receiver in each of those seasons. Would it have been good enough to win a Lombardi? I don't know.
 

SudsMcBucky

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I'm hoping that in a few years I can say I still say it was not the right pick at the time but it was absolutely the right pick - if you know what I mean. I think both items can have a lot of truth about them.
I know exactly what you mean and feel the same way.
 

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