The Key for the Green Bay Packers at Outside Linebacker May Be Jayrone Elliott

[Dantés]

It's really not that tough to understand that a defense blitzing too often will get torched. It has been explained to you on numerous occasions. The Packers should target talented players to create constant pressure on opposing quarterbacks with only four pass rushers.

Especially given that fire zones are pretty well figured out right now league wide. If you're going to blitz consistently, you have to be able to hold up in man coverage.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/sig-stats-team-blitzing/

I found this stat line that shows the teams who blitzes the most in 2014, and where they ranked in the league... 6 out of the top 10 highest blitzing percentage teams finished top 10 in the league in overall defense. #11 is in there too.

Any way you look at that chart you can see that the teams that blitzes more were the better defenses. And overall the best teams in the league. Top 10 blitzing teams blitzes from 32-42% of the time. The anomaly being the top blitzing rams who blitzes 45% of the time and ranked #23 defense overall...

Point being... blitz more. Keep the Dlinemen in, and blitz more.

We also invested in bigger, faster CBs who can man up. As well as help against the run by being up bumping, rather than running down field in a reactionary approach...

I think with the investment into Francois, and, and development of both Clark, and the rookie Adams being added. While still keeping Daniels and Guion. Ringo,lorry, price or any other rookies who decide to break out.... we finally have a dline that can play 3 AND rotate to stay fresh...Coupled with the bigger, faster, dbacks to help play man coverage... GB is going to have an excellent season on defense

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

TT and the Packers have basically put themselves into a position that Elliott, Fackrell or someone not named Perry or Matthews will have to step up and contribute in 2017. History has shown that the Packers will probably not be able to solely rely on Perry and Matthews for 16+ games. I'm still scratching my head that both Peppers and Jones were allowed to walk and so far, Vince Biegel is the corresponding move to offset the loss of 2 guys who saw quite a few snaps in 2016. People keep talking about wanting to see more of Clay inside, but who is going to cover his spot at OLB?

While I am glad there is optimism about our secondary being much improved from last year, I view our current situation at OLB as one that has regressed from last year.

 

[Arthur Squires]

TT and the Packers have basically put themselves into a position that Elliott, Fackrell or someone not named Perry or Matthews will have to step up and contribute in 2017. History has shown that the Packers will probably not be able to solely rely on Perry and Matthews for 16+ games. I'm still scratching my head that both Peppers and Jones were allowed to walk and so far, Vince Biegel is the corresponding move to offset the loss of 2 guys who saw quite a few snaps in 2016. People keep talking about wanting to see more of Clay inside, but who is going to cover his spot at OLB?

While I am glad there is optimism about our secondary being much improved from last year, I view our current situation at OLB as one that has regressed from last year.

I think Elliott can be a better player than Datone. Elliott already proved he can be more productive with less snaps in 2015 logging better stats and play as a UDFA while Datone struggled and can be tagged a borderline 1st round Bust, or disappointment at the very least. Elliott with increased snaps I can see logging 5 sacks 35 tackles if he stays healthy, maybe more if Perry doesn't!

 

[Mondio]

i don't think allowing had anything to do with Peppers leaving. I think he wanted to go "back home" to finish his career. and truth be told, as much as he's been kind of an anomaly when it comes to age and physicality, I think we got as much good milage out of him as we were going to get. He might show up in the stat sheet every week or 2 for Carolina, but he was getting beat more and more when it wasn't a play he could just crash to the QB.

and I'm not going to be surprised to see the Vikings fans to be happy to have Datone this year. He didn't do a ton for us, I think he was better last year than most give him credit for and I was surprised we didn't retain him. I guess he did get 4 million? from MN? Would have been fine giving him 2-3 for a prove it year, 2nd at OLB position.

But I do think we're looking at some more pressure from our DL this year. Not that they are going to be the ones getting sacks, but a decent squeeze from all angles consistently will do more than hoping someone comes free once and a while if we throw a enough blitzes at them.

I still hope someone is available after cuts or sometime before rosters are finalized though, if not, i think we can also be fine, but everyone will have to be healthy at the position. I"m not putting money on that.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

i don't think allowing had anything to do with Peppers leaving.

Semantics aside, the Packers didn't make Peppers an offer. I guess that tells me they weren't interested. I really didn't expect Jones to be resigned. All I was pointing out was the fact that 2 OLB's who contributed in various ways in 2016 (1132 combined snaps) are gone, one OLB (Biegel) was drafted. This leads me to believe that TT and the Packers are expecting Elliott (136 snaps), Fackrell (160) and anyone else to make up for those 2 leaving.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

TT and the Packers have basically put themselves into a position that Elliott, Fackrell or someone not named Perry or Matthews will have to step up and contribute in 2017. History has shown that the Packers will probably not be able to solely rely on Perry and Matthews for 16+ games. I'm still scratching my head that both Peppers and Jones were allowed to walk and so far, Vince Biegel is the corresponding move to offset the loss of 2 guys who saw quite a few snaps in 2016. People keep talking about wanting to see more of Clay inside, but who is going to cover his spot at OLB?

While I am glad there is optimism about our secondary being much improved from last year, I view our current situation at OLB as one that has regressed from last year.

The olb position regressed. I believe it's by scheme change. The full time rushing specialist like peppers and datone will be an actual DE like Clark, Adams, or lowry.

I also believe we get a more well rounded lb corps with Mathews moving around, and the rookie Jones in the mix. It gives us the flexibility to have either better rushers with Mathews inside, and a 3rd olb outside...or go with better coverage with Mathews outside, Jones inside, and Ryan inside. Essentially having 3 ilbs out there with one being a tweener safety.

Mathews catches a lot of grief for not being a great olb anymore, or a great ilb. I disagree. I feel like his injuries recently have given the haters firepower. But in reality he is a do all lb who can be moved around. Is good in coverage inside or out(imo), and can still rush from inside or outside. A wildcard. I love that. The shoulder injury took him out. The knee sprain took him out in the NFC championship game. I'd like to see anyone out there with a career making 15 mil a year ,risk it all to play injured, if the shoe was on the other foot... anyways. I believe in Mathews still. He is going to shine this year with more Dlinemen in front of him...

 

[JLW_51]

I am a fan of Biegel, but man, not a way to start out your pro career, and the foot injury isn't a new one.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

I am a fan of Biegel, but man, not a way to start out your pro career, and the foot injury isn't a new one.

The packers most likely stepped in to get him a top tier doctor to fix the foot... for good.
Also, Ted loves to stash guys on ir, and pup. I could see biegel coming in fresh week 7 or whatever, and being a impact. Maybe sooner. Maybe later...

 

[Arthur Squires]

Biegel should be healthy by training camp.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's not to hard to understand that even with peppers, Clay, and Perry, datone at olb, we couldn't get to the qb....and our defense was torched weekly for the last 3 years straight...

Maybe it's time you RE-evaluate your strategy? Because you insist the pressure comes from the olbs. But even with a hoard of high dollar olbs, we couldn't do squat.

My strategy isn't to blitz every down. But to bring 3 big powerful quick dlineman in more often. Let Perry play one on one. And then blitz from the other 3 lb positions and even the secondary, BECAUSE they are open to blitz without a blocker in front of them... like I said, if they hold a te back to block, you send Mathews up the gut. If they hold a rb back to block, you send a big fast olb around the other edge with a head of steam...

Blitzing doesn't work when you have two wore down dlineman up front, and the blitzers have to go through a guard or tackle before they get pressure...

What you continue to ignore is the fact that nearly all of the best pass rushers in the league are built like 3-4 outside linebackers, they just happen to line up at defensive end in a 4-3 scheme.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/sig-stats-team-blitzing/

I found this stat line that shows the teams who blitzes the most in 2014, and where they ranked in the league... 6 out of the top 10 highest blitzing percentage teams finished top 10 in the league in overall defense. #11 is in there too.

Geez, Eli, only two of the defenses within the top 10 in blitzing percentage finished the 2014 season among the top 10 in points allowed. The column you used represented their ranking in blitz percentage in 2013.

I think Elliott can be a better player than Datone. Elliott already proved he can be more productive with less snaps in 2015 logging better stats and play as a UDFA while Datone struggled and can be tagged a borderline 1st round Bust, or disappointment at the very least.

Datone for sure was a disappointment playing defensive end but he actually rushed the passer pretty well as an outside linebacker but had troubles finishing plays. I would have liked the Packers to bring him back on a reasonable deal to see if he further improved during his second season playing the position.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

What you continue to ignore is the fact that nearly all of the best pass rushers in the league are built like 3-4 outside linebackers, they just happen to line up at defensive end in a 4-3 scheme.



Geez, Eli, only two of the defenses within the top 10 in blitzing percentage finished the 2014 season among the top 10 in points allowed. The column you used represented their ranking in blitz percentage in 2013.



Datone for sure was a disappointment playing defensive end but he actually rushed the passer pretty well as an outside linebacker but had troubles finishing plays. I would have liked the Packers to bring him back on a reasonable deal to see if he further improved during his second season playing the position.

After the Perry experiment worked out, I would have been all for Jones coming back for such a small price.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The packers most likely stepped in to get him a top tier doctor to fix the foot... for good.
Also, Ted loves to stash guys on ir, and pup. I could see biegel coming in fresh week 7 or whatever, and being a impact. Maybe sooner. Maybe later...

The Packers can't afford to stash Biegel either on the PUP list or injured reserve as that would leave them with only two backups at outside linebacker. In addition I highly doubt he would have any immediate impact if he wasn't allowed to practice until week 7 of this season.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

What you continue to ignore is the fact that nearly all of the best pass rushers in the league are built like 3-4 outside linebackers, they just happen to line up at defensive end in a 4-3 scheme.



Geez, Eli, only two of the defenses within the top 10 in blitzing percentage finished the 2014 season among the top 10 in points allowed. The column you used represented their ranking in blitz percentage in 2013.



Datone for sure was a disappointment playing defensive end but he actually rushed the passer pretty well as an outside linebacker but had troubles finishing plays. I would have liked the Packers to bring him back on a reasonable deal to see if he further improved during his second season playing the position.

Dang it wimm! That is devastating to my argument!!!
I misunderstood the charts wording, because I didn't read the article through...had to hurry up and school you and get my wife to the flea market. Lol
Nothing gets past you!

 

[thequick12]

I think Elliott can be a better player than Datone. Elliott already proved he can be more productive with less snaps in 2015 logging better stats and play as a UDFA while Datone struggled and can be tagged a borderline 1st round Bust, or disappointment at the very least. Elliott with increased snaps I can see logging 5 sacks 35 tackles if he stays healthy, maybe more if Perry doesn't!

yeah could see elliot getting 5 sacks. i can also see jones getting 5 plus sacks for the vikings as a defensive end.

 

[Arthur Squires]

yeah could see elliot getting 5 sacks. i can also see jones getting 5 plus sacks for the vikings as a defensive end.

I don't see Datone logging 5 sacks for them this year. The way Griffen and Hunter abuse QBs, Datone might even be pushed for snaps by Tashawn Bower a intriguing rookie they brought in Undrafted! I see another 3 sack 20 tackles season for Datone. And again with Elliott seeing increased snaps 5 sacks 30 tackles is possible.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I like Jayrone and I want him to be successful, but at this level he just seems to be a flash in the pan type of player. I don't have any real research to back this up, and you guys can feel free to do some with me, but those games in which he actually did produce, who was he against? It's like he has 1-2 better than good games a year, and then.....nothing.

The key to a 3-4 Defense is the DL. And I'd love to hear someone say TT has a great track record with drafting DLs. With a proper DL chewing up blocks like they're supposed to, a Kindergartner should be able to get to the QB if a RB isn't back there in pass protection. So if Elliott is retained for the next 2 seasons, and he can't get it done, I expect some offseason or Draft picks next season to reflect his lack of production.

 

[Mavster]

They key for us at OLB imo is Perry taking another step to further elevate his game. My expectations for everyone else at the position are extremely low.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The key to a 3-4 Defense is the DL.

It doesn't matter how often posters repeat that the defensive line is the key to success in a 3-4 defense it simply isn't true, especially as teams now line up in subpackages on more than 70% of the defensive snaps.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

So tell me then, what good is a blitzing LB in a 3-4 who has to fight through a OL(possibly a double team) and/or potentially a RB just to get to the QB? Don't worry, I'll wait.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So tell me then, what good is a blitzing LB in a 3-4 who has to fight through a OL(possibly a double team) and/or potentially a RB just to get to the QB? Don't worry, I'll wait.

Geez, another poster that doesn't understand that outside linebackers are the primary pass rushers in a 3-4 defense, mostly being the ones getting double teamed by opposing teams with the tackle receiving help if needed. The big defensive linemen are mainly responsible for pushing the pocket on passing plays against the center and guards.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

It doesn't matter how often posters repeat that the defensive line is the key to success in a 3-4 defense it simply isn't true, especially as teams now line up in subpackages on more than 70% of the defensive snaps.

Geez, another poster that doesn't understand that outside linebackers are the primary pass rushers in a 3-4 defense, mostly being the ones getting double teamed by opposing teams with the tackle receiving help if needed. The big defensive linemen are mainly responsible for pushing the pocket on passing plays against the center and guards.

I'm well versed in how a 3-4 works, I've run it for quite some time. What you fail to realize that is if there is no push from the DL other than an All-World talent at LB, sacks are going to be hard to come by. It's obvious that Elliott is far from that. As great as James Harrison was in his prime, he wouldn't have the resume he has now if it wasn't for a great DL up front. You combine an underperforming 3-4 DL with another underperforming OLB(or in this case a pair of them), then you get opposing QBs will all day in the pocket.

To add to that further, with 70% of snaps being in subpackages where there are 4 down linemen, the fact that Elliott still can't get it done is even more apparent, and DC can occasionally draw up some exotic blitzes from time to time.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

What you fail to realize that is if there is no push from the DL other than an All-World talent at LB, sacks are going to be hard to come by. It's obvious that Elliott is far from that. As great as James Harrison was in his prime, he wouldn't have the resume he has now if it wasn't for a great DL up front. You combine an underperforming 3-4 DL with another underperforming OLB(or in this case a pair of them), then you get opposing QBs will all day in the pocket.

To add to that further, with 70% of snaps being in subpackages where there are 4 down linemen, the fact that Elliott still can't get it down is even more apparent, and DC can occasionally draw up some exotic blitzes from time to time.

There's no doubt the outside linebackers benefit from the defensive line getting a push inside on passing plays but that doesn't make the DL more important than the edge rushers.

BTW the Packers don't use four down linemen in their subpackages, mostly lining up with only two.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I'm well versed in how a 3-4 works, I've run it for quite some time. What you fail to realize that is if there is no push from the DL other than an All-World talent at LB, sacks are going to be hard to come by. It's obvious that Elliott is far from that. As great as James Harrison was in his prime, he wouldn't have the resume he has now if it wasn't for a great DL up front. You combine an underperforming 3-4 DL with another underperforming OLB(or in this case a pair of them), then you get opposing QBs will all day in the pocket.

To add to that further, with 70% of snaps being in subpackages where there are 4 down linemen, the fact that Elliott still can't get it done is even more apparent, and DC can occasionally draw up some exotic blitzes from time to time.

How exactly do a couple of DTs going up the middle of the line help the OLB win his battle with the opposing tackle? They could give less of a crap about a slow 300 pound DL who isn't even in their area when they have athletic pass rushers on the edge to keep away from the QB.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

There's no doubt the outside linebackers benefit from the defensive line getting a push inside on passing plays but that doesn't make the DL more important than the edge rushers.

BTW the Packers don't use four down linemen in their subpackages, mostly lining up with only two.

Funny, I was well aware of this 4-4-3 formation that he's been using for quite some time....if you don't believe me, I even googled it for you for your own reading:

http://allgbp.com/2013/07/02/packers-playbook-part-8-the-hippo-defense/

You're welcome.

How exactly do a couple of DTs going up the middle of the line help the OLB win his battle with the opposing tackle? They could give less of a crap about a slow 300 pound DL who isn't even in their area when they have athletic pass rushers on the edge to keep away from the QB.

I'm assuming you've never played LB in a 3-4 Defense, so let me explain:

Obviously in a 3-4 defense the "3" comes from 3 down linemen. Obviously on the offensive side, that's 3 DLs going against 5 OLs, plus the possibility of a TE or a RB in the backfield. Depending on how the pass protection is designed, a OG can be shifted to double team a DE or the NT/DT based on the flow of the play. Since a OLs first step on a pass is backwards, they are somewhat presented with a "choice" on which DL to engage. That's why you often see the C pointing at the opposing DL right before the snap, he's literally calling the pass protection based on what they see the defense lined up in as far as gap assignment and what they've seen in film, normally it's a series of dummy calls to get the DL to push right into the advantage of the OL.

So with that being said, after the snap of the ball if the OG is engaged with the DE, which is highly probable, given that the offense knows there are 4 LBs capable of bringing the blitz, the OT is one on one with a 3-4 OLB. It's up to the OLB (In this case Elliott) to win that battle, or at the very least, demand the additional attention of the RB in the backfield to allow another LB in the scheme to make the sack.

This all goes back to the DL, SOMEONE has to demand a double team. If the DE(In this case Daniels) demands the attention of the OG and the OT on his side then that leaves the OLB one on one with the RB in pass protection or he has a clear path to the QB. If the OL is winning the battle with the DL in a 3-4, then the OLBs are going to be tangled up with what is commonly called the "trash" of the LoS, because there'e not enough push from the DL to where the OLB gets a free rush. At the end of the day the OT and the OG or if it's the weak side the TE in a block and release route as well only need to "chip" or hold the OLB for about 1-2 seconds to allow the QB to make a 3 step drop and throw the ball. In a shotgun formation the QB is already gifted an additional 1-2 seconds by being futher from the LoS so that chip turns his 3 second read into a 5 second and possibly longer read and throw, which is when the play breaks down and WRs typically find a way to get open against the secondary(Randall and Rollins).

Fortunately, the silver lining to this is the fact that with the OLBs in a 3-4 caught up in the trash on the edge, someone is still available to sack the QB, and that's the ILBs(In this case Perry). As the play develops if at least one of the ILBs are still available despite the pass coverage he has a choice of which gap to shoot, whether it's A or B. Unless the ILB has a predetermined gap that must hit based on design he can run right through the line if the NT who's hopefully found some way to demand a double team of the C and OG; or if he's one on one with one or the other, he can flow right behind the initial push, which leaves either just a RB to beat or a clear shot at the QB. At the very LEAST, once the QB sees the ILB coming he'll either take the sack, force a throw, or scramble.

I could go on and on about various defensive scenarios in a 3-4 involving run fits, blitz packages, and executing coverage, but I think you all should get it by now. If you don't win the LoS, things can get quite difficult, even for an edge rusher.