The Jordan Love Thread

[Schultz]

So is what hand lotion Rodgers uses; my point isn't to go into EVERY factor that affects Rodgers' performance, it's just funny that some people (not pointing at you) try to use Rodger's performance as a reason the Packers were wise to give up a Super Bowl to draft a backup QB.

Which SB did they give up? I hope it was one of the Starr ones. Favre and Rodgers can't afford the team to give up their only SB.

 

[OldSchool101]

No, I don't expect perfection at all as I understand it's impossible to achieve. But, Gutekunst should have known Rodgers still had some elite football left in him at the point he made the decision to draft Love.



I have explained it in the past, my dislike of Love's selection has actually nothing to do with the player. In my opinion it was a waste to use that selection on a quarterback, period.



Don't get me wrong, Gutekunst did a fantastic job adding another first rounder while selecting Alexander back in the 2018 draft.

It might have been better to spend that pick on a different player than Savage though.

Maybe so, but isn't really that what the whole argument is about? If we pick and choose which players in past draft's we did not like (or we did like), we have to hand ALL the draft picks back. I think the point is that one selection affects another all the way back several drafts, losing its intensity the farther back you go. That relationship between positional/players in draft selections is inextricably tied together, like dominoes. Thats the point I was sort of making and why I asked everyone what they would rate Gluten (overall). Not to mention how great Brian has been in FA and that in itself is a huge part of a team's success.

 

[Voyageur]

I think they underestimated an injured Aaron Rodgers' ability to recover from two years of injuries, and light it up again. They should have had a little more faith in him, and it would have all played out differently.

 

[tynimiller]

I think they underestimated an injured Aaron Rodgers' ability to recover from two years of injuries, and light it up again. They should have had a little more faith in him, and it would have all played out differently.

It isn't this simple, injuries and a small regression hitting year after year pressed them into a position I don't think anyone desired to be in. As a GM you always gotta try and predict when your franchise guy is nearing the end to attempt to replace him before he needs replacing...franchises who accomplish this have a better shot at regression hitting hard.

It is our hindsight which makes it VERY easy for us to be critical of it because it for sure proved to be not necessary that is for sure.

 

[Voyageur]

It isn't this simple, injuries and a small regression hitting year after year pressed them into a position I don't think anyone desired to be in. As a GM you always gotta try and predict when your franchise guy is nearing the end to attempt to replace him before he needs replacing...franchises who accomplish this have a better shot at regression hitting hard.

It is our hindsight which makes it VERY easy for us to be critical of it because it for sure proved to be not necessary that is for sure.

Not everyone felt his skills eroded. I never did. I saw a guy going through upper body injuries continuing to try to play, and his mechanics being thrown off. I felt he could come back as strong as ever, when totally healed.

I think it was a matter of Gute deciding he was going to show everyone he was in charge. I don't believe that LeFleur was ever really totally on board with the decision to draft Love.

But, that's just my opinion, like everyone else has their own.

 

[tynimiller]

Not everyone felt his skills eroded. I never did. I saw a guy going through upper body injuries continuing to try to play, and his mechanics being thrown off. I felt he could come back as strong as ever, when totally healed.

I think it was a matter of Gute deciding he was going to show everyone he was in charge. I don't believe that LeFleur was ever really totally on board with the decision to draft Love.

But, that's just my opinion, like everyone else has their own.

You’re first part again comes with no basis or internal knowledge and firsthand observations - more just gut essentially correct? You attributed the decline of production and such to injuries solely where others said age was possibly part as well.

The good thing is Rodgers did bounce back, and I attribute a lot of it actually to how he feels and felt then mentally and life wise more than anything honestly.

 

[OldSchool101]

Sooner or later The Packers were going to draft at QB somewhere in the 2020-2023 seasons range. At some point us choosing a QB relatively higher in the draft had to happen. No team has a 36 year old QB and does not consider having a firm contingency strategy. Had we drafted one last season? We would sacrifice Eric Stokes. Had we drafted on this season? Terrible pool of QB's in 2022 imo
and that might even be something they were seeing a couple seasons ago.

I'm not sure, but the over/under on the season to draft Rodger's successor was probably this season??
Can you imagine if we had to choose from this weak QB class? What a cluster. So we pulled a Junior out of college and took a shot and drafted early, not the end of the world here.

 

[Voyageur]

I'm not sure but the over/under on the season to draft Rodgers successor was probably this season. Can you imagine if we had to choose from this weak QB class? What a cluster

Good point. No matter what, we draft so low that it would be hard to have picked someone better. That's why I stay out of the argument on whether Love was or wasn't a good pick. Only time will tell.

 

[OldSchool101]

Good point. No matter what, we draft so low that it would be hard to have picked someone better. That's why I stay out of the argument on whether Love was or wasn't a good pick. Only time will tell.

Looking forward at QB. Next year it's a top heavy class right now. After a draft with just ONE QB in Day 1 in 2022, we have what, maybe 3-4 QB's (at most) inside the first 10 selections and probably just 3 bonafide. After that it's a crap shoot and anyones guess where they go
What would it cost to battle it out with other teams wanting a QB in that top 5 area?? It would be brutal.. Probably 3 years of Day 1 selections?? It wouldn't be pretty unless we tank this season, which I don't think we plan on doing

 

[longtimefan]

I think they underestimated an injured Aaron Rodgers' ability to recover from two years of injuries, and light it up again. They should have had a little more faith in him, and it would have all played out differently.

I've said it few times. I have a gut feeling they knew something was coming to a head. Rodgers decline ( yes he did weather it was bringing him to a diff " normal " his accuracy was off. And im sure they knew he wasn't happy.. I could see they thought he was looking to get out in in 21

those 2 factors were internal and they got scared

 

[longtimefan]

You’re first part again comes with no basis or internal knowledge and firsthand observations - more just gut essentially correct? You attributed the decline of production and such to injuries solely where others said age was possibly part as well.

The good thing is Rodgers did bounce back, and I attribute a lot of it actually to how he feels and felt then mentally and life wise more than anything honestly.

Mentally felt better.. never thought of that. You get things off your chest you feel a lot better

 

[Voyageur]

You’re first part again comes with no basis or internal knowledge and firsthand observations - more just gut essentially correct? You attributed the decline of production and such to injuries solely where others said age was possibly part as well.

The good thing is Rodgers did bounce back, and I attribute a lot of it actually to how he feels and felt then mentally and life wise more than anything honestly.

Let's put it this way. I said Rodgers would bounce back after two sub-par years based on his skills, while others were already screaming for his head. I didn't change my views, or perspective on what I saw, and understood what had happened to his mechanics, due to injury. I felt strongly he'd be just fine.

As far the first part of my statement, I stick to what I said. I think they thought he might be about through, because of the injuries. As for my observations, they're every bit as valid as yours. Now smile!

 

[Spanky]

Colin Cowherd said Love doesn't have it. He's seen enough. Cowherd said the best thing people can say about Love is "that interception wasn't his fault."

 

[Deleted member 6794]

To me, it's too early to determine whether the Love pick was right or wrong. We won't know for at least a few years, because it all depends on how he looks when (or possibly if) he becomes the starter. If he becomes a franchise QB, then it was a good pick. If he doesn't, then it was a huge waste. Of course, there is the possibility that Rodgers continues to play through Love's rookie contract, in which case Love might never start for us.

It was a distinct possibility from the time Love was drafted that he will never get an opportunity to start for the Packers as Rodgers was pretty adamant about wanting to play for the Packers into his 40s. Therefore it was a mistake to use that first rounder on a quarterback.

Because time and time again, I've watched production increase with increased competition, so theres no guess work in something I've lived around. See how Rodger's production changes markedly after that selection, #12 was mad as a hornet.

As long as you haven't been around in the Packers locker room you're just guessing. The most likely explanation for Rodgers' production to significantly improve in 2020 is that he felt far more comfortable during the second year in MLF's system.

As for Soap-Opera BS? Look at our QB he's basically been the epitome of that stuff, so it all fits like a glove. If the glove fits you can't acquit!

The media made Rodgers the epitome of a soap opera. That's a huge difference.

I just don't think the overall impact was a dramatic as we are making it out to be. We don't even know that we would've picked at WR even then, maybe in Round 4?

Actually it doesn't matter if the Packers had selected a wide receiver in the first round. A prospect at any other position would have made a significantly bigger impact than Love has had over the past two seasons.

Yeah, so Brian had been more than sniffing at WR there, it's not like he was on a war path to make Rodgers mad.

As mentioned above, if Gutekunst didn't like any of the receivers left at that point he should have selected a player at a different position but not a quarterback.

Maybe so, but isn't really that what the whole argument is about? If we pick and choose which players in past draft's we did not like (or we did like), we have to hand ALL the draft picks back. I think the point is that one selection affects another all the way back several drafts, losing its intensity the farther back you go. That relationship between positional/players in draft selections is inextricably tied together, like dominoes. Thats the point I was sort of making and why I asked everyone what they would rate Gluten (overall). Not to mention how great Brian has been in FA and that in itself is a huge part of a team's success.

I don't have an issue with a prospect not working out as the draft is a crapshoot after all. It's different to spend your most precious selection on a position in absolutely no need of an upgrade, especially considering a backup quarterback doesn't receive any meaningful snaps.

It isn't this simple, injuries and a small regression hitting year after year pressed them into a position I don't think anyone desired to be in. As a GM you always gotta try and predict when your franchise guy is nearing the end to attempt to replace him before he needs replacing...franchises who accomplish this have a better shot at regression hitting hard.

It is our hindsight which makes it VERY easy for us to be critical of it because it for sure proved to be not necessary that is for sure.

Once again, a lot of fans don't need to use hindsight to criticize Love's selection as they were pretty outspoken about Rodgers not having declined at the time of the 2020 draft. In hindsight those fans were right and Gutekunst got it wrong. He should be held accountable for it.

Sooner or later The Packers were going to draft at QB somewhere in the 2020-2023 seasons range. At some point us choosing a QB relatively higher in the draft had to happen. No team has a 36 year old QB and does not consider having a firm contingency strategy.

I agree that the Packers had to bring in a potential successor for Rodgers. The 2020 draft was too early to give it a try though.

 

[PackAttack12]

It isn't this simple, injuries and a small regression hitting year after year pressed them into a position I don't think anyone desired to be in. As a GM you always gotta try and predict when your franchise guy is nearing the end to attempt to replace him before he needs replacing...franchises who accomplish this have a better shot at regression hitting hard.

It is our hindsight which makes it VERY easy for us to be critical of it because it for sure proved to be not necessary that is for sure.

As @Voyageur pointed out, many did not believe Rodgers was regressing.

It's not hindsight for some of us.

I'm all in on Gute as the GM. He's done an excellent job. But he swung and missed on Love and he misgauged how much Rodgers had left. That, or as I've suggested in the past, he wanted his "Favre to Rodgers" feather in his cap. Or perhaps the former led to the latter.

 

[tynimiller]

As @Voyageur pointed out, many did not believe Rodgers was regressing.

It's not hindsight for some of us.

I'm all in on Gute as the GM. He's done an excellent job. But he swung and missed on Love and he misgauged how much Rodgers had left. That, or as I've suggested in the past, he wanted his "Favre to Rodgers" feather in his cap. Or perhaps the former led to the latter.

I never thought he was regressing to the degree some did, and clearly Gute and Co did - but to dismiss it as not true I know for me is something I simply cannot do as too many signals said it was happening.

I agree, it's really the only true sizable hiccup in Gute's decision that he just didn't hit on. For a position where you cannot bat a thousand, he's come pretty dang near.

 

[Voyageur]

Although I thought Gute did make a mistake in drafting Love, I have to say I'm not in the slightest bit disappointed in how well he's done filling holes on the roster. In all honesty, he's done better than I thought he would, considering the Love situation.

They'll make mistakes in the front office. Everyone does make mistakes. But when I look at the talent they've found, I'm pleased. Even the free agents, often with low relative contracts, have been pretty darned good.

 

[longtimefan]

Colin Cowherd said Love doesn't have it. He's seen enough. Cowherd said the best thing people can say about Love is "that interception wasn't his fault."

Colin? Lmao

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I never thought he was regressing to the degree some did, and clearly Gute and Co did - but to dismiss it as not true I know for me is something I simply cannot do as too many signals said it was happening.

Well, actually Rodgers' performance over the past two seasons dismissed the notion of him having regressed of not being true at all.

 

[tynimiller]

Well, actually Rodgers' performance over the past two seasons dismissed the notion of him having regressed of not being true at all.

I agree and am happy he has been amazing.

 

[gopkrs]

Well, actually Rodgers' performance over the past two seasons dismissed the notion of him having regressed of not being true at all.

He did not play really well for a couple of seasons. That seemed to be a regression. How many MVP votes did he get those years?

 

[Schultz]

Colin Cowherd said Love doesn't have it. He's seen enough. Cowherd said the best thing people can say about Love is "that interception wasn't his fault."

For the first time I am starting to think Love has a chance to be good, or this is part of the 2% of the time Cowherd is right about something.

 

[OldSchool101]

Actually it doesn't matter if the Packers had selected a wide receiver in the first round. A prospect at any other position would have made a significantly bigger impact than Love has had over the past two seasons.

That's purely speculation. You have no idea if a player ends up like Damarius Randall or Quinten Rollins or Jason Spriggs or Jonathan Franklin or countless others. You are at best on a "wishing" scenario there. You don't strike me as the type that likes to wish on players to come out of the gate on fire. Could they have gotten other production thus far? maybe.. yes. However that amount of that production would have negated another player at their respective position. Can you imagine had we went iLB and then not signed D Campbell or Rasul Douglas as just one example?? It just as easily could have been a counterproductive nightmare.. It's very possible those moves would not have happened had we selected a DB or LB and thats why I say it's a purely speculative argument and hinges on Rookie or Sophomore production outdoing those examples.

I agree that the Packers had to bring in a potential successor for Rodgers. The 2020 draft was too early to give it a try though.

Ok. Let's play out your scenario and let's lock down that QB 2 years later.
In that case we now need a franchise QB starting this season to groom for the next several years.
Which QB would you have selected in the 2022 draft and what reasonable draft capital would you have used to get that QB as the successor to #12??

 

[gopkrs]

That's purely speculation. You have no idea if a player ends up like Damarius Randall or Quinten Rollins or Jason Spriggs or Jonathan Franklin

Don't know why you brought up Franklin. He might have been a player. He got hurt and never had much of a chance.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I agree and am happy he has been amazing.

Gutekunst should be held accountable for making the mistake of believing Rodgers was regressing though.

He did not play really well for a couple of seasons. That seemed to be a regression. How many MVP votes did he get those years?

MVP votes is a curious metric to evaluate a player as over the past 10 years only 20 players received a vote.

That's purely speculation. You have no idea if a player ends up like Damarius Randall or Quinten Rollins or Jason Spriggs or Jonathan Franklin or countless others.

Although all of the players you mentioned ended up being busts for the Packers they had more impact than Love will most likely have over the course of his rookie season. In addition, there was no way of knowing with either of the ones you brought up but there was with Love though.

You don't strike me as the type that likes to wish on players to come out of the gate on fire.

I would definitely prefer every rookie to have an immediate impact. I understand that's not how it works for most of them.

Could they have gotten other production thus far? maybe.. yes.

They should have gotten better production out of a first round pick entering his third season.

However that amount of that production would have negated another player at their respective position. Can you imagine had we went iLB and then not signed D Campbell or Rasul Douglas as just one example?? It just as easily could have been a counterproductive nightmare.. It's very possible those moves would not have happened had we selected a DB or LB and thats why I say it's a purely speculative argument and hinges on Rookie or Sophomore production outdoing those examples.

That's pure speculation on your part now. In addition it's pretty telling that's all you can come up justifying Love's selection in the first place.

Ok. Let's play out your scenario and let's lock down that QB 2 years later.
In that case we now need a franchise QB starting this season to groom for the next several years.
Which QB would you have selected in the 2022 draft and what reasonable draft capital would you have used to get that QB as the successor to #12??

With a lack of talent at the quarterback position in this year's draft it would have been smart to wait until next year to think about drafting Rodgers' successor.