The Jordan Love Thread

[OldSchool101]

I highly doubt any team would be interested in a decent offer for Love solely based on his performance in the preseason.

Define “decent offer”. Give us an exact example. Otherwise I’m not sure if that’s a decent response

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Define “decent offer”. Give us an exact example. Otherwise I’m not sure if that’s a decent response

I would at least want the Packers to receive a second rounder in return for Love.

 

[OldSchool101]

I would at least want the Packers to receive a second rounder in return for Love.

That’s pretty fair. The only thing I might offer is that if I’m a team giving you a 2nd…. I’ve lost much value because he’s only got 1-2 years left of Rookie contract.

Nothing personal. I might might just pass and draft a QB using a 2nd Rounder and package up into the late 1st Round and get 4+1.
I really like that option at QB because they are so darn expensive on that 2nd deal.

Would you take a #75-#80 overall for Love straight up, if I can work some internal magic??

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That’s pretty fair. The only thing I might offer is that if I’m a team giving you a 2nd…. I’ve lost much value because he’s only got 1-2 years left of Rookie contract.

Let's be honest here, next offseason Love has only one year left on his rookie deal. There's no reason for any team to exercise the fifth year option on him at $20+ million. In addition I don't expect another club to offer a second rounder for him, therefore I believe the Packers will hold on to him for the 2023 season as well.

I might might just pass and draft a QB using a 2nd Rounder and package up into the late 1st Round and get 4+1.
I really like that option at QB because they are so darn expensive on that 2nd deal.

The Packers not being able to take advantage of their starting quarterback being on a cheap rookie contract is another reason why it didn't make a whole lot of sense drafting Love in the first place.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Packers not being able to take advantage of their starting quarterback being on a cheap rookie contract is another reason why it didn't make a whole lot of sense drafting Love in the first place.

To date, yes you are correct. However, he still has 2 years left on the cheap contract, so anything can happen. Of course you keep glossing over the fact that 2 years have passed since 2020, when Love was drafted. Things could have happened much differently with injuries, retirement, decline in abilities or Rodgers forcing his way out of Green Bay. Of course none of those things fit the narrative of "Love was a wasted pick", so why mention them, right?

 

[OldSchool101]

The Packers not being able to take advantage of their starting quarterback being on a cheap rookie contract is another reason why it didn't make a whole lot of sense drafting Love in the first place

That theory was disproved in the 2005 draft. The money was more a secondary benefit. Developing a QB in the wings is numero uno.

btw. After all this discouraging talk about Aaron can’t handle the grind? It might’ve been the best choice after all. At least we’re not just now waiting to draft Rodgers successor next draft. With pick #32!

None have answered and I’ve asked 6 times now. Who is our successor at QB if your scenario took place?? If Love wasn’t selected and Aaron retires?? I mean…. You did have a plan right?? Wink wink wink

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

None have answered and I’ve asked 6 times now. Who is our successor at QB if your scenario took place?? If Love wasn’t selected and Aaron retires?? I mean…. You did have a plan right?? Wink wink wink

I can hear the anti-Love'ers thinking to themselves...

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[OldSchool101]

I can hear the anti-Love'ers thinking to themselves...

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It Absolutely is!!
It’s like a check mate!

You’re screwed!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It Absolutely is!!
It’s like a check mate!

You’re screwed!

Reminds me of Bill Paxton in Aliens!

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[gopkrs]

None have answered and I’ve asked 6 times now. Who is our successor at QB if your scenario took place?? If Love wasn’t selected and Aaron retires?? I mean…. You did have a plan right?? Wink wink wink

Seemed like most everyone wanted Benkert. Did he go to Detroit and start a couple games?

 

[gopkrs]

The Packers not being able to take advantage of their starting quarterback being on a cheap rookie contract is another reason why it didn't make a whole lot of sense drafting Love in the first place.

You really do believe QBs just fall out of trees.

 

[OldSchool101]

Seemed like most everyone wanted Benkert. Did he go to Detroit and start a couple games?

I think you’re right. I’m not so sure I’d feel good about his upside though. but thank you! I give you an A grade for at least taking a shot.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Seemed like most everyone wanted Benkert. Did he go to Detroit and start a couple games?

Benkert is still with the Packers. I think he's only been in to take 2 kneel down snaps. I believe you are thinking about Tim Boyle.

But let's not lose sight of the Point Old School was kicking around. Had Love not been selected in 2020, then who and when do you draft Rodgers replacement? This past draft? Wait til next year? Or just except the fact it's going to be years and many selections before the Packers find someone nearly as good as Rodgers? Maybe that player is already on the team...just a thought.

 

[OldSchool101]

Benkert is still with the Packers. I think he's only been in to take 2 kneel down snaps. I believe you are thinking about Tim Boyle.

But let's not lose sight of the Point Old School was kicking around. Had Love not been selected in 2020, then who and when do you draft Rodgers replacement? This past draft? Wait til next year? Or just except the fact it's going to be years and many selections before the Packers find someone nearly as good as Rodgers? Maybe that player is already on the team...just a thought.

It’s actually comforting knowing we’ve got someone in the pipeline. Like you said, if he doesn’t end up working out fine. It’s not like we can’t get what we can for him and keep searching.

After all this talk (from both Davante and Rodgers) about seriously contemplating retirement. Maybe the QB position was the right call after all?? There’s no guarantees with Rodgers, he’s a complicated fella

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Benkert is still with the Packers. I think he's only been in to take 2 kneel down snaps. I believe you are thinking about Tim Boyle.

But let's not lose sight of the Point Old School was kicking around. Had Love not been selected in 2020, then who and when do you draft Rodgers replacement? This past draft? Wait til next year? Or just except the fact it's going to be years and many selections before the Packers find someone nearly as good as Rodgers? Maybe that player is already on the team...just a thought.

Are you arguing that the backup for Rodgers is just as important as the #1 receiver?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Are you arguing that the backup for Rodgers is just as important as the #1 receiver?

Huh? No clue how you came to that conclusion, enlighten me on your thought process.

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[Sunshinepacker]

Huh? No clue how you came to that conclusion, enlighten me on your thought process.

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Your rejoinder to "Gute could have drafted a really good receiver instead of Love" was "but then who would be the backup QB" implying some kind of equivalence.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Your rejoinder to "Gute could have drafted a really good receiver instead of Love" was "but then who would be the backup QB" implying some kind of equivalence.

Not at all. Had Gute not drafted Love we have no clue who or what position he would have drafted. More importantly, we have no clue if that player would have been a boom, bust or just an average draft pick.

What I was saying, was that Love is under contract for 2 more years, if something happens to Rodgers, we at least have the next guy in line to try and fill his shoes.

 

[OldSchool101]

As fans we want to go strictly by past production. However I’d argue at the QB position it’s much more than that. In many cases it takes several years for a QB to “prove himself”. It’s even harder for a QB to prove himself when you get hired behind a HOF QB contemplating retirement. The expectations are bigger and the in field experience is minimal at best.

The other side of the equation is a the QB position is volatile in value. If you get a bad one? You can overpay severely. If you get a great one you might underpay severely. A QB might not get a chance to be a bonafide starter for years, but they have a Tremendous value when they get their chance and if they prepared properly. Not all QB start year one or even start for the drafting team. There are dozens of examples of QB’s who got drafted and either didn’t start right away and bided their time, only to get traded. It’s a boom or bust position and highly volatile.

I say this because using the sophomores season of any QB who has been on the bench as a litmus test for their value is an extremely poor way of evaluating a selection. We have had 2 HOF QB’s and both fell into these categories. They either got drafted and traded or took years to properly express their value. Had we given either Favre or Rodgers a grade 2 seasons in? They would’ve gotten kicked out of the league for non production by our fans standards. Our fans analysis of our QBs is far more ridiculous than Gutenkunst choosing a QB in response to real time concerns in 2020. Brians’ was a series of calculated responses by an entire staff of professionals with 100+ years of combined experience.
Conversely, putting final judgement on an NFL QB this early? at very best it displays a novice level, knee jerk reaction and zero understanding of Roster building or player development.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

To date, yes you are correct. However, he still has 2 years left on the cheap contract, so anything can happen. Of course you keep glossing over the fact that 2 years have passed since 2020, when Love was drafted. Things could have happened much differently with injuries, retirement, decline in abilities or Rodgers forcing his way out of Green Bay. Of course none of those things fit the narrative of "Love was a wasted pick", so why mention them, right?

You having to continue to use "What ifs" as the only way to justify the selection of Love should tell you it was a terrible pick in the first place.

That theory was disproved in the 2005 draft. The money was more a secondary benefit. Developing a QB in the wings is numero uno.

The situation was completely different in 2005. There was no rookie wage scale in place and the CBA didn't limit practices as much as it does now. McCarthy was allowed to hold his quarterback school in the offseason and it was possible to get the backup QB significantly more snaps in practice during the season as well.

None have answered and I’ve asked 6 times now. Who is our successor at QB if your scenario took place?? If Love wasn’t selected and Aaron retires?? I mean…. You did have a plan right?? Wink wink wink

First of all, let me reiterate that Rodgers never hinted at retirement before Love was selected. I have absolutely no idea who would have been brought in as Rodgers' successor if Gutekunst hadn't selected Love but at this point there was no need for anybody anyway.

You really do believe QBs just fall out of trees.

No, I don't. That's why I was advocating for taking advantage of having a HOFer at the position as long as possible and don't waste the biggest asset in an offseason on a backup who was slated to sit out the bench for all of his rookie deal.

But let's not lose sight of the Point Old School was kicking around. Had Love not been selected in 2020, then who and when do you draft Rodgers replacement? This past draft? Wait til next year?

It's impossible to answer how the Packers would have approached finding Rodgers' successor if they hadn't selected Love in 2020.

But as a side note, it seems they weren't successful anyway.

It’s actually comforting knowing we’ve got someone in the pipeline. Like you said, if he doesn’t end up working out fine.

Actually it's absolutely not fine if trading up in the first round to select a backup quarterback after the team made it to the NFCCG the previous season doesn't work out. That's how general managers lose jobs around the NFL.

It’s not like we can’t get what we can for him and keep searching.

It's not a smart approach to spend a first and a fourth rounder and $12 million on a backup and be comfortable with getting significantly less as compensation to move on from him.

After all this talk (from both Davante and Rodgers) about seriously contemplating retirement.

I haven't ever heard Adams talk about retirement. Rodgers??? See above.

More importantly, we have no clue if that player would have been a boom, bust or just an average draft pick.

It would have been extremely tough for any other player selected at that spot to have a smaller positive impact than Love has had so far.

What I was saying, was that Love is under contract for 2 more years, if something happens to Rodgers, we at least have the next guy in line to try and fill his shoes.

I'm quite sure the Packers would have a backup quarterback on the roster even if they didn't draft Love. Most likely not a downgrade from him anyway.

There are dozens of examples of QB’s who got drafted and either didn’t start right away and bided their time, only to get traded. It’s a boom or bust position and highly volatile.

How many of those dozens have been successful since 2011???

I say this because using the sophomores season of any QB who has been on the bench as a litmus test for their value is an extremely poor way of evaluating a selection. We have had 2 HOF QB’s and both fell into these categories. They either got drafted and traded or took years to properly express their value. Had we given either Favre or Rodgers a grade 2 seasons in? They would’ve gotten kicked out of the league for non production by our fans standards. Our fans analysis of our QBs is far more ridiculous than Gutenkunst choosing a QB in response to real time concerns in 2020. Brians’ was a series of calculated responses by an entire staff of professionals with 100+ years of combined experience.
Conversely, putting final judgement on an NFL QB this early? at very best it displays a novice level, knee jerk reaction and zero understanding of Roster building or player development.

For the umpteenth time, nobody is making a final evaluation of Love as an NFL player. You need to realize he will most likely not have a significant impact for the Packers at any point in his career though.

 

[PikeBadger]

As fans we want to go strictly by past production. However I’d argue at the QB position it’s much more than that. In many cases it takes several years for a QB to “prove himself”. It’s even harder for a QB to prove himself when you get hired behind a HOF QB contemplating retirement. The expectations are bigger and the in field experience is minimal at best.

The other side of the equation is a the QB position is volatile in value. If you get a bad one? You can overpay severely. If you get a great one you might underpay severely. A QB might not get a chance to be a bonafide starter for years, but they have a Tremendous value when they get their chance and if they prepared properly. Not all QB start year one or even start for the drafting team. There are dozens of examples of QB’s who got drafted and either didn’t start right away and bided their time, only to get traded. It’s a boom or bust position and highly volatile.

I say this because using the sophomores season of any QB who has been on the bench as a litmus test for their value is an extremely poor way of evaluating a selection. We have had 2 HOF QB’s and both fell into these categories. They either got drafted and traded or took years to properly express their value. Had we given either Favre or Rodgers a grade 2 seasons in? They would’ve gotten kicked out of the league for non production by our fans standards. Our fans analysis of our QBs is far more ridiculous than Gutenkunst choosing a QB in response to real time concerns in 2020. Brians’ was a series of calculated responses by an entire staff of professionals with 100+ years of combined experience.
Conversely, putting final judgement on an NFL QB this early? at very best it displays a novice level, knee jerk reaction and zero understanding of Roster building or player development.

Total winner. And very well explained.

 

[tynimiller]

You need to realize he will most likely not have a significant impact for the Packers at any point in his career though.

You need to realize, that some folks believe OR betting odds are that, he will most likely not have a significant impact for the Packers at any point in his career though.

Fixed it for you. It's like when I even mentioned or hinted at the trading of Adams - and you swept in stating things in definitive manners. This cannot be stated in such a matter of fact way.

 

[gopkrs]

No, I don't. That's why I was advocating for taking advantage of having a HOFer at the position as long as possible and don't waste the biggest asset in an offseason on a backup who was slated to sit out the bench for all of his rookie deal.

That's different than saying you want a rookie QB so he can play on the first contract. That implies that we can just pick up a college QB whenever the need arises.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You need to realize, that some folks believe OR betting odds are that, he will most likely not have a significant impact for the Packers at any point in his career though.

Fixed it for you. It's like when I even mentioned or hinted at the trading of Adams - and you swept in stating things in definitive manners. This cannot be stated in such a matter of fact way.

Thanks, beat me to it. I might add, those betting odds of Love contributing to the Packers have been slowly increasing since 2020, with a rather large dip last year, before Rodgers finally reported and then we saw another dip before Rodgers committed to the Packers and the 2022 season as well. So what we have seen is a corresponding rise in this "I told you so chatter" and it will continue until Love is playing for another team or it may completely go away if Rodgers decides to retire tomorrow and Love plays well as his replacement.

The other thing that influences that curve are the opportunities that Love gets to prove himself in the NFL, which have been very few. Not that I want it to happen, but if Rodgers gets hurt and misses several games and Love steps in and plays well, that curve will start heading down again.

When it comes to the QB position in the NFL, it is very hard to keep a really good starter as your #2, without paying them a kings ransom or getting lucky and drafting one that is ready at the exact moment he is needed. Gets even more complicated and necessary when your starter is somewhere on the back 9 of his career and you have no clue what hole he is on. The Packers took the approach of grabbing a promising prospect in the draft. An approach that if successful fills not only the future need of replacing Rodgers, but a potential cheap and capable back-up. I suppose they could have paid a vet QB $5-15M to serve that role, but then that might cost you the ability to use that money on another player.

All of this is much like the purchase of life insurance, you hope you never need it, but if you fail to buy it, the impact on those you leave behind, could be rather substantial if you do.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

As hard as it will be for me to resist, I am done with this subject matter, until it actually changes for the better or the worse. I suppose depending on how you view the topic, those situations could be polar opposites for some.

Good luck Jordan...may you only play for the Packers, if you are needed due to retirement, trade or injury. Otherwise, I appreciate you continuing to improve and being insurance if any of the above occurs.