Taking Advantage

[Pokerbrat2000]

If Jordy needs Rodgers to be effective, he's not worth 10 million a year. why pay him 5 million for last year. Where were we going? Re-check Jones in Oakland. Very, very comparable season with a rookie you call barely mediocre compared to the seasoned vet in Rodgers. Jordy retired. He was not taking us anywhere last year and he wasn't going to be in the future as he retired a year later. He was near the end and they recognized it. It was not a mistake to let him go.

I always struggle with this. "Where are we going?". Before Jordy was allowed to walk, we really didn't know where we where headed. I think at the time, most thought a Super Bowl wasn't out of the question. So at the time, maybe Jordy could have been that missing link to get there? Had the Packers gone 9-7 last year and just seemed to be a decent WR short, it might have looked like a mistake not to resign Jordy.

Obviously, as it turns out, Jordy wasn't the missing link and we didn't have a snowballs chance in hell to get to the SB after Rodgers knee injury. But when you make the decisions, well ahead of the results, do you make them knowing the investment isn't worth it, because it won't matter or because its a bad investment no matter what?

This season some of us have debated if spending $5M-$10M on a #2 vet QB would have been a good investment. If we didn't have a chance to make it to the SB, I think a dumb investment, but if we start looking like a SB caliber team, I would much rather have that money invested in a solid #2 that might be the missing piece to get us to a SB, then having the savings sitting in the war chest to be used on a very unknown future.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I still think the talent acquisitions Gutes has added to this team are significant. I’m impressed by his hitting on players late. MVS & ESB. Kumerow, Shep & Laz in UDFA. There is a lot left to play out.

Just a slight correction TT was responsible for bringing Kumerow to GB. I guess you can give Gute credit thought for sticking with him.

 

[Do7]

D07 I took you off of ignore, and this is how you start a post. Do you even realize how arrogant and or naive that sounds? Sometimes people aren’t going to agree with you no matter how well you believe you have presented your argument.

Dude it's text. If you want to interpret what I say as me being arrogant and whatnot, I can't help how you interpret my words. Judging how someone sounds based on what they say is completely unfair if you ask me. It's not like I'm calling people idiots for having a different opinion from mine. I'm having a debate, which means I have an opposing view as to someone else. It's certainly not my intent to come off as vain or arrogant. But the problem is, you've already generalized me as that, simply because I'm intense when I do these kind of debates.

So when I say I'm not trying to start a fight, know I am being genuine. Having said that, I don't see the problem having a debate. It's not like I said anyone was wrong for their viewpoints. Plus I've owned up to when I've been wrong here. Personally I think you let one incident where the two of us didn't see eye to eye with one another and you basically generalized me into something I'm not. And I'm being honest, ever I've come here, I feel you've been nothing but judgemental towards me in particular.

I can be sarcastic as that's part of my charm, but not once have I called or used any derogatory words to belittle someone. So I apologize if you took that as me coming off as arrogant, as that certainly wasn't my intent.

 

[mongoosev]

we have a new head coach too, his name is Matt.

I know that...but I admit I found out months after they announced him as coach like a week or so before pre season. Hopefully it works out!

 

[Do7]

Glad to see you have begun to drink the forum Kool-Aid. "bahahahahaha".

But in all seriousness, as a fan, it is tough to see a favorite player seemingly cast aside, I get it. However, at the end of the day, that player is probably still able to play elsewhere and in the case of many, still make a small fortune and eek out a few more years of a good football career on their own terms. So we are probably feeling more sorry for ourselves over the perceived loss, than the player themselves.

I predict if Clay Matthews has double digit sacks and a solid year for the Rams, coupled with any linebacker issues for the Packers and it won't be long before a few people are going to start screaming that Clay should have been resigned.

I still think that we could've signed Jordy for a minimum of 3-5 mil for one year as a swan song last year, and I think he could've contributed. But I can see I'm in the minority. But do understand I respect you guys' opinions on the matter, just because I don't see eye to eye with you.

 

[swhitset]

Dude it's text. If you want to interpret what I say as me being arrogant and whatnot, I can't help how you interpret my words. Judging how someone sounds based on what they say is completely unfair if you ask me. It's not like I'm calling people idiots for having a different opinion from mine. I'm having a debate, which means I have an opposing view as to someone else. It's certainly not my intent to come off as vain or arrogant. But the problem is, you've already generalized me as that, simply because I'm intense when I do these kind of debates.

So when I say I'm not trying to start a fight, know I am being genuine. Having said that, I don't see the problem having a debate. It's not like I said anyone was wrong for their viewpoints. Plus I've owned up to when I've been wrong here. Personally I think you let one incident where the two of us didn't see eye to eye with one another and you basically generalized me into something I'm not. And I'm being honest, ever I've come here, I feel you've been nothing but judgemental towards me in particular.

I can be sarcastic as that's part of my charm, but not once have I called or used any derogatory words to belittle someone. So I apologize if you took that as me coming off as arrogant, as that certainly wasn't my intent.

Lol... you do understand the implication when you suggest that your argument “is going over someone’s head”? Or more to the point...apparently everyone’s head?

 

[Mondio]

I always struggle with this. "Where are we going?". Before Jordy was allowed to walk, we really didn't know where we where headed. I think at the time, most thought a Super Bowl wasn't out of the question. So at the time, maybe Jordy could have been that missing link to get there? Had the Packers gone 9-7 last year and just seemed to be a decent WR short, it might have looked like a mistake not to resign Jordy.

Obviously, as it turns out, Jordy wasn't the missing link and we didn't have a snowballs chance in hell to get to the SB after Rodgers knee injury. But when you make the decisions, well ahead of the results, do you make them knowing the investment isn't worth it, because it won't matter or because its a bad investment no matter what?

This season some of us have debated if spending $5M-$10M on a #2 vet QB would have been a good investment. If we didn't have a chance to make it to the SB, I think a dumb investment, but if we start looking like a SB caliber team, I would much rather have that money invested in a solid #2 that might be the missing piece to get us to a SB, then having the savings sitting in the war chest to be used on a very unknown future.

but it wasn't the only factor either. He was due just over 10 million dollars that year. I figured so much would have to go right for the packers to be any sort of contender, but not out of the question. I don't think Jordy would have helped a whole lot in that regard, but regardless, I did figure this was a season or process and Jordy was not going to be with us in 2 years anyway.

I loved Jordy, one of my favorite all time players because of his production and how much he meant to the community off the field. I played drinking games with his dad in MN at my friend's tailgate. Took my son right down the road from our house to get his autograph at our little community summer send off and he'd come and sit till they were done though it was only supposed to last an hour or 2. The guy was awesome for this team and community. But it was not a mistake to let him go.

 

[Mondio]

I still think that we could've signed Jordy for a minimum of 3-5 mil for one year as a swan song last year, and I think he could've contributed. But I can see I'm in the minority. But do understand I respect you guys' opinions on the matter, just because I don't see eye to eye with you.

it was reported they offered 2 million for 1 year and Jordy felt he was not a part of their plan beyond that so he chose to look elsewhere. I think he said that was the main factor, not feeling like he was a part of any long term plan. I doubt 3 million would have gotten it done

 

[Do7]

Lol... you do understand the implication when you suggest that your argument “is going over someone’s head”? Or more to the point...apparently everyone’s head?

This is EXACTLY my point! The only person that seems to have taken issue with what I said is you! And if you understood the context in which I was saying it, you would understand I was not trying to come off as vain or mean spirited. It's like every other person here can say stuff and it's not a big deal, but when I say it, you have an issue with it.

Everyone was saying how if we signed Jordy would've taken away from who we signed last year, and I'm baffled as to who exactly if we had offered him a contract for roughly 3-5 mil. Who last year would we have missed out on. Could I have better worded that, fine. I'll own that. But again I just find it strange you're the only person that issue with that.

Matter of fact, @greengold were you offended at what I said? If so I apologize as I certainly did NOT mean to come off as vain as apparently I did.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

but it wasn't the only factor either. He was due just over 10 million dollars that year. I figured so much would have to go right for the packers to be any sort of contender, but not out of the question. I don't think Jordy would have helped a whole lot in that regard, but regardless, I did figure this was a season or process and Jordy was not going to be with us in 2 years anyway.

I loved Jordy, one of my favorite all time players because of his production and how much he meant to the community off the field. I played drinking games with his dad in MN at my friend's tailgate. Took my son right down the road from our house to get his autograph at our little community summer send off and he'd come and sit till they were done though it was only supposed to last an hour or 2. The guy was awesome for this team and community. But it was not a mistake to let him go.

I was just being philosophical about that tough decision of "Are we THAT close to being THAT good to go all in?" or "Do we save the money, try to make do and build for the future?" I know there is a lot more to the decisions than just that, but if I am the guy footing the bill, I'm not spending it just to spend it. I might try to save some this year, knowing that if I spend it next year, my chances of going all the way could be bettered by waiting.

 

[Stanger37]

This is coming from a guy who loves both Jordy and Randall. At some point you have to move on from these kinds of players, Clay Matthews included. The decision isn't easy, but you have to try and predict just how much gas that player has left in his tank for the next season (or two or three), how much that gas is going to cost you and will all that new gas you just bought go bad sitting on the shelves? Factoring into that decision is injury history, age and productivity. I think in the case of all 3 players, Gute felt it was time to fill the tank with fresh gas and not try to squeak out a few more miles and end up running out of gas before the next station.

*burp*

I agree and I'd rather be a year early than a year late. Though I hated seeing Jordy go. But in the grand scheme of things, I think it was ultimately the right move because the front office got to realize you can't just feed Rodgers any WR and win. 2017, they started 4-1. Rodgers and Jordy were on a tear the first 5 games. He got hurt and the whole story was "if he never got hurt!" because Hundley was terrible. Don't need to give anyone a history lesson obviously, but 2018 get rid of Jordy and draft 3 WRs and it was an absolute mess.

I think it was finally the wake up call that the front office needed. I fear if Rodgers didn't get hurt and they made the playoffs...MM gets another pass. They may pay Jordy another year, they probably won't win just 6 games, but those few draft positions later, may not have gotten Jaire or Jackson without giving up any future assets to begin to put together a defense. And 2018 probably would have been a waste and Rodgers is just another year closer to retirement. Probably suffer for another year with MM, maybe he gets fired after this year. But just another wasted year.

I don't want to play the 'what if' and hypotheticals but the team was just completely complacent and keeping old toys I think would have just added to that. It's 2018/2019, we can't keep holding onto 2010. To use your analogy, fill up the tank for a 4 year run before Rodgers heads off to the sunset.

 

[Do7]

Lol... you do understand the implication when you suggest that your argument “is going over someone’s head”? Or more to the point...apparently everyone’s head?

Maybe it's a combination of my battles with Quientus, and gary along with some other things, but I like to debate. I may not see things eye to eye with people, but that doesn't mean I don't respect their opinions. I've said that countless of times.

I'm aware I'm intense at times. But I'm passionate, and I love this team just like everyone here and I have an opinion, in which I'm open for it to be criticized as I give it freely. I'm sorry if I gave you a bad impression of me, but having said that a part of me thinks I say the slightest thing and you'll sit there and judge me for it.

 

[Do7]

I was just being philosophical about that tough decision of "Are we THAT close to being THAT good to go all in?" or "Do we save the money, try to make do and build for the future?" I know there is a lot more to the decisions than just that, but if I am the guy footing the bill, I'm not spending it just to spend it. I might try to save some this year, knowing that if I spend it next year, my chances of going all the way could be bettered by waiting.

Quick question, if we offered Jordy a vet deal last year, for roughly around the price I suggested, would you have had an issue with him being resigned for one year for around 3-5 mil? Again based off who we signed last year, I think we could've gotten Jordy and that still wouldn't have gotten in the way of signing all the people we did.

 

[swhitset]

Maybe it's a combination of my battles with Quientus, and gary along with some other things, but I like to debate. I may not see things eye to eye with people, but that doesn't mean I don't respect their opinions. I've said that countless of times.

I'm aware I'm intense at times. But I'm passionate, and I love this team just like everyone here and I have an opinion, in which I'm open for it to be criticized as I give it freely. I'm sorry if I gave you a bad impression of me, but having said that apart of me thinks I say the slightest thing and you'll sit there and judge me for it.

I can be judgy... and I do appreciate your passion for the Packers. I don’t disagree with everything you say. I just get worn out when you won’t let it go at times. As I said above, people aren’t always going to agree with you, and you don’t have to keep trying to make them lol.

 

[Do7]

it was reported they offered 2 million for 1 year and Jordy felt he was not a part of their plan beyond that so he chose to look elsewhere. I think he said that was the main factor, not feeling like he was a part of any long term plan. I doubt 3 million would have gotten it done

Huh. I thought it was for roughly a mil. My mistake! It's hard not argue with that. I just would've liked to think that maybe if it was 3-4 mil that would've satisfied him. But of that's me being optimistic. Plus I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in regards to the year he had before because Hundley was garbage and he was doing well prior to Rodgers going down.

But I digress that is a fair point.

 

[swhitset]

Quick question, if we offered Jordy a vet deal last year, for roughly around the price I suggested, would you have had an issue with him being resigned for one year for around 3-5 mil? Again based off who we signed last year, I think we could've gotten Jordy and that still wouldn't have gotten in the way of signing all the people we did.

I know you were asking Pokerbrat2000... but my answer would be ... it depends. Could we give that contract to Jordy and still sign everyone else we did in free agency?... You wanted to keep Cobb too as I recall... where do we draw the line? and who are you cutting from the roster ?

 

[Mondio]

as a fan, I would have loved Jordy back here for 4 million bucks. I wouldn't even have been that critical of it. As it turns out though, I think they knew he was closer to the end that we may have realized. I remember thinking he was hurt or something because he didn't look like himself the last part of his last season.

But I don't think money was his deciding factor, as he alluded to not being in the big picture plans so he decided to go elsewhere. and when let go again, decided to retire.

 

[Mondio]

I know you were asking Pokerbrat2000... but my answer would be ... it depends. Could we give that contract to Jordy and still sign everyone else we did in free agency?... You wanted to keep Cobb too as I recall... where do we draw the line? and who are you cutting from the roster ?

don't forget another 4-5 million for a back up QB that is a vet

 

[Do7]

I can be judgy... and I do appreciate your passion for the Packers. I don’t disagree with everything you say. I just get worn out when you won’t let it go at times. As I said above, people aren’t always going to agree with you, and you don’t have to keep trying to make them lol.

Fair enough. I can go a little overboard when trying to defend my points, but please understand it's like when I'm in the middle of an intense debate, I enjoy it going back and forth. I guess, my problem is not everyone shares my enthusiasm, and that I may not be aware of when I should dial it back. I'll work on that. It's just like everyone here I'm passionate. But I won't use that as an excuse. I'll work on that going forward. Deal?

 

[Mondio]

just for some reference.

Nelson wouldn’t say exactly what the Packers’ offer was —one league source said it was a one-year offer of $2 million with zero guaranteed money — but he did say the financial component was only part of why he felt he had to move on.

and

I think the (salary) number was part of it, but also the conversation I had in the meeting,” Nelson said. “I met with Brian and had a discussion because I had to get a feel for not just the pay cut but what their plans were going forward. After that meeting, there wasn’t, I don’t think, much desire there.

from here

https://madison.com/wsj/sports/foot...cle_ce2fb768-bff1-547d-adc4-23abbaf4afc8.html

 

[Do7]

I know you were asking Pokerbrat2000... but my answer would be ... it depends. Could we give that contract to Jordy and still sign everyone else we did in free agency?... You wanted to keep Cobb too as I recall... where do we draw the line? and who are you cutting from the roster ?

That's a fair point. I just...really wish there was someway we could've kept them both, let alone with more titles with those guys. I miss them.

 

[XPack]

You wanted to keep Cobb too as I recall... where do we draw the line? and who are you cutting from the roster ?

It depends on the situation. If we were cutting Mike D, I'd have preferred to retain Clay (he'd be fine playing Inside now) and offers lots of options. I'd retain Cobb simply because we don't have anyone to replace him in the slot or at least sign someone in FA after letting him go. I'm actually fine with having let Jordy go as we have Davante ready and waiting plus MvS/Davis etc down the line.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Quick question, if we offered Jordy a vet deal last year, for roughly around the price I suggested, would you have had an issue with him being resigned for one year for around 3-5 mil? Again based off who we signed last year, I think we could've gotten Jordy and that still wouldn't have gotten in the way of signing all the people we did.

I see that my staff has answered the question for me while I was away.
Christmas bonuses for all!


But yes, in sticking with what I posted last season when the decision was made and I found out Jordy was willing to sign for a lot less, I wasn't happy. I believed at the time he still had a few seasons (as a Packer) left in his tank. As it turns out, he probably wouldn't have made the difference, but I also believe in "The Butterfly Effect".....meaning had Jordy been resigned, maybe #12 doesn't get hurt and maybe the Packers beat the Patriots in the SB....you just never know what can happen, when you remove one variable out of a sequence of events. Would I build my team based on that? No.

 

[mongoosev]

I still think that we could've signed Jordy for a minimum of 3-5 mil for one year as a swan song last year, and I think he could've contributed. But I can see I'm in the minority. But do understand I respect you guys' opinions on the matter, just because I don't see eye to eye with you.

MANY people wished the Packers would have kept Jordy, especially women fans!

You know what is ironic, is that these players are considered "washed up" while another team bids on them. Of course they get them cheap but nonetheless they get them. But I think Jordy knew he was done. I think he went to the Raiders out of pride(or money) only to succumb to his true intent and that was to retire.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

because the front office got to realize you can't just feed Rodgers any WR and win.

I'm not so sure that they have actually fully learned this lesson just yet.

I do think that in the last 2 years, both TT and Gute finally came to the realization that you can't win just with Rodgers and definitely can't win without him.

Through no fault of his own, Rodgers kind of allowed TT and the Packers to get complacent on offense, which allowed them to over focus on trying to build a solid defense, which TT basically whiffed on (except for Kenny Clark).