Small ILB Recap & Conclusions

[HardRightEdge]

True, still I don't think a lot of inside linebackers presenting an upgrade over either Barrington or Ryan will be cut. The Packers might be able to find an improvement over their current backups though.

Everybody assumes Barrington will be back 100%. I would make no such assumption. There are 3 roster spot that may be up for grabs.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Adding another somewhat talented player to the position isn't good enough in my opinion though.

It may have to be. Don't hold your breath.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Everybody assumes Barrington will be back 100%. I would make no such assumption. There are 3 roster spot that may be up for grabs.

I realize you seem to be pretty concerned about Barrington's injury. It will be interesting to see if he's able to fully participate in OTAs.

It may have to be.

I would be extremely disappointed if that's the way it works out this offseason.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I realize you seem to be pretty concerned about Barrington's injury. It will be interesting to see if he's able to fully participate in OTAs.

Many foot injuries are inoperable, treated with rest and therapy. I've not seen the nature of the injury mentioned. Some are career threatening...Lisfranc, microfracture and turf toe, to name a few. I'd have more confidence if it was a minor ACL.

Even if he can get on the field, he's not the kind of guy who can stand a diminishment of agility or speed. When you get down to it, there's a fairly small margin of athleticism between an average NFL player and a guy who slips out of the league.

 

[HardRightEdge]

If Ragland is gone by the time the Packers are on the clock in the first round Leonard Floyd might be another option to play inside linebacker in a 3-4.

That is a very interesting proposition. Outstanding athlete and football talent. It looks he moved around a lot on the field and did a fair amount of work between the tackles. He's got that middle-blitz burst you like at ILB. He's awfully lanky at 6'6", 240 lbs., and I noticed he chose not to lift at either the Combine or Pro Day, which raises some questions. He's built more like a WR/TE tweener than an ILB. That said, he's not shy about coming downhill and hitting people. He's got the 40 time and closing speed that you'd like at Will.

You'd have to figure, though, that his eventual projection would be 3-4 OLB after he adds 20 lbs.; in the meantime I could see him as a multi-tool rotational guy moved around the field for specific matchups. We're going to need that 3-4 OLB by 2017, so a year of physical development would fit the time line.

He may slip down the board because his build does not fit for immediate play on the edge in either 4-3 or 3-4. However, this is not a particularly good draft for edge rushers; he's the kind of guy a team may be willing to wait on for a year...like the Packers would be.

I'm tired of looking at linebackers, so I'm going to put him on my list as a "football talent".

While Schobert had the best 60 yard shuttle time of all linebackers at the combine you have to realize that only four LBs participated in it. As a comparison, Killebrew ran a 11.02 in the drill so Schobert's time isn´t actually that impressive.

Fair enough, but Killebrew is a 220 lb. safety recast as a matchup ILB in my view of things, maybe just as the dime backer to start out. I don't have a complete list of the guys running this drill, but the guys running it all the way down 11.27 are DBs, WRs. Schoebert's time as a 240 lb. ILB is quite good.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I would be extremely disappointed if that's the way it works out this offseason.

I was extremely disappointed that Thompson did not select Kendricks in the 1st. round last year. I'm prepared for a repeat.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That is a very interesting proposition. Outstanding athlete and football talent. It looks he moved around a lot on the field and did a fair amount of work between the tackles. He's got that middle-blitz burst you like at ILB. He's awfully lanky at 6'6", 240 lbs., and I noticed he chose not to lift at either the Combine or Pro Day, which raises some questions. He's built more like a WR/TE tweener than an ILB. That said, he's not shy about coming downhill and hitting people. He's got the 40 time and closing speed that you'd like at Will.

You'd have to figure, though, that his eventual projection would be 3-4 ILB after he adds 20 lbs.; in the meantime I could see him as a multi-tool rotational guy moved around the field for specific matchups. We're going to need that 3-4 ILB by 2017, so a year of physical development would fit the time line.

Floyd might have to add some weight to play the position but hopefully not enough to lose his outstanding athleticism. There´s no denying his tackling has to considerably improve but he was more efficient than Darron Lee and Deion Jones. I have to disagree with the Packers needing a true 3-4 inside linebacker in 2017, the team is in desperate need for an upgrade at the position for this season. I guess Floyd could be successful playing Will linebacker with either Barrington or Ryan starting next to him.

Fair enough, but Killebrew is a 220 lb. safety recast as a matchup ILB in my view of things, maybe just as the dime backer to start out. I don't have a complete list of the guys running this drill, but the guys running it all the way down 11.27 are DBs, WRs. Schoebert's time as a 240 lb. ILB is quite good.

I have a hard time assessing Schobert´s 60 yard shuttle time because I can´t find a ton of information about other linebackers running the drill. FWIW he was faster than Jake Ryan who clocked in at 11.65. I agree that it´s no surprise Killebrew was significantly faster than him.

I was extremely disappointed that Thompson did not select Kendricks in the 1st. round last year. I'm prepared for a repeat.

I really like your optimism.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I have to disagree with the Packers needing a true 3-4 inside linebacker in 2017, the team is in desperate need for an upgrade at the position for this season. I guess Floyd could be successful playing Will linebacker with either Barrington or Ryan starting next to him.

That was a brain fart...my projection for Floyd is OLB by 2017, not ILB. I edited that post. In the mean time, he could get his feet wet with some situational play at Will and off the edge.

I have a hard time assessing Schobert´s 60 yard shuttle time because I can´t find a ton of information about other linebackers running the drill. FWIW he was faster than Jake Ryan who clocked in at 11.65. I agree that it´s no surprise Killebrew was significantly faster than him..

Schobert at 11:59 vs. Ryan at 11:65 are indistinguishable.

I really like your optimism.

Well, I'm more optimistic than maybe anybody on this board regarding Ryan as a 3-down Will. Any true college ILB these days (not a converted college S), taken in this draft is going to be a little rough in man coverage, and converted OLBs have their own issues. Jaylon Smith would have been a notable exception, but nowhere near touchable at #27 if healthy. So I look forward to a second year improvement from Ryan.

I know for sure I was more optimistic about Pennel than anybody on this board when I saw him playing with vastly improved pad level in preseason last year. He's the kind of undercoached small college player that makes the practice squad worthwhile. In fact, I don't see a need specifically for a NT at all. I tried to pick a couple of guys who I see as more athletic big men for gap play and scheme flexibility. The only reason I included Billings in my list was partly out of draft fatigue and partly because Pennel can play strong side DE in base as he did last season playing next to Raji. The smarter move would be a lower pick for a 2-down NT. You don't use a 1st. round pick to cover a 4 game suspension.

So, I'm optimistic Pennel is not an irremediable pothead. I'd be more concerned if it was a PED suspension.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That was a brain fart...my projection for Floyd is OLB by 2017, not ILB. I edited that post. In the mean time, he could get his feet wet with some situational play at Will and off the edge.

Got it, in this case I would be fine with Thompson taking a gamble on Jaylon Smith.

Well, I'm more optimistic than maybe anybody on this board regarding Ryan as a 3-down Will. Any true college ILB these days (not a converted college S), taken in this draft is going to be a little rough in man coverage, and converted OLBs have their own issues. Jaylon Smith would have been a notable exception, but nowhere near touchable at #27 if healthy. So I look forward to a second year improvement from Ryan.

I know for sure I was more optimistic about Pennel than anybody on this board when I saw him playing with vastly improved pad level in preseason last year. He's the kind of undercoached small college player that makes the practice squad worthwhile. In fact, I don't see a need specifically for a NT at all. I tried to pick a couple of guys who I see as more athletic big men for gap play and scheme flexibility. The only reason I included Billings in my list was partly out of draft fatigue and partly because Pennel can play strong side DE in base as he did last season playing next to Raji. The smarter move would be a lower pick for a 2-down NT. You don't use a 1st. round pick to cover a 4 game suspension.

Well, let´s hope you´re right about Ryan as well. The Packers need at least to add depth on the defensive line though. As of right now the depth chart only includes Daniels, Guion, Pennel, Boyd, Ringo and some guys having been signed to future contracts. Even without Pennel´s suspension and the team being able to move Peppers and Jones inside in subpackages the position should be addressed with another player capable of starting.

 

[HardRightEdge]

The Packers need at least to add depth on the defensive line though. As of right now the depth chart only includes Daniels, Guion, Pennel, Boyd, Ringo and some guys having been signed to future contracts. Even without Pennel´s suspension and the team being able to move Peppers and Jones inside in subpackages the position should be addressed with another player capable of starting.

I don't dispute any of that. My problem is with spending a 1st. round pick on a NT for 20-30% of the snaps who can only bring a bull rush to the passing game. Frankly, Pennel's bull rush by the back half of last season looked better than anything I've seen from Billings tape. He might not be quite the plugger that Billings is against double teams, but I don't see enough of a difference to justify the pick.

The idea that we need a dominant NT because that was Raji's primary position is lazy thinking. Having Billings on my list is laziness on my part, but then nobody pays me to do this.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Got it, in this case I would be fine with Thompson taking a gamble on Jaylon Smith.

An uninjured Jaylon Smith may well have been the best player in this draft. Maybe not a #1 pick, or even a top 5 pick since teams get all jiggy with need and the so-called high value positions, but his potential impact was obvious.

Yeah, sure, grab Smith. But at what price? The guy may never play football again, or if he does what you get may not be quite the player you see on his college tape.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yeah, sure, grab Smith. But at what price? The guy may never play football again, or if he does what you get may not be quite the player you see on his college tape.

I would feel comfortable with Thompson pulling the trigger on him either in the third round if the Packers have addressed inside linebacker and the defensive line with their first two picks or the fourth round otherwise.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I would feel comfortable with Thompson pulling the trigger on him either in the third round if the Packers have addressed inside linebacker and the defensive line with their first two picks or the fourth round otherwise.

Without having expert medical advice on his April check, if that's taken place by now, I have no idea.

The lifts he claims to be doing are certainly encouraging, but that does not speak to speed and, in particular, agility. I don't think you can know that until he hits the practice field regardless of what any medical report might say.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Jaylon Smiths medical recheck is suppose to take place either Thursday or Friday of this week. This will no doubt create a new buzz of conversation. If its good news (full recovery for 2017) he won't be around for the Packers to pick at #27. If its moderate news (no 2017, but most likely will recover), he may not be around for the Packers in the second round, unless they trade up. If no new news (too early to know his future), he should be around for awhile.

For Jaylon's sake I hope its nothing but really good news. But as a Packer fan, I kind of hope its somewhat inconclusive and everyone is left guessing. This might allow the Packers to roll the dice and pick him up in round 3 or later, after they plug some needs for 2016.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Without having expert medical advice on his April check, if that's taken place by now, I have no idea.

The lifts he claims to be doing are certainly encouraging, but that does not speak to speed and, in particular, agility. I don't think you can know that until he hits the practice field regardless of what any medical report might say.

I´m well aware that Smith would be a risky pick no matter how his medical recheck will work out this week. If positions of need are addressed early in the draft I would feel comfortable selecting him though because of his massive upside. It´s possible completely healthy third round picks don´t work out either, see Khyri Thornton as an example.

Jaylon Smiths medical recheck is suppose to take place either Thursday or Friday of this week. This will no doubt create a new buzz of conversation. If its good news (full recovery for 2017) he won't be around for the Packers to pick at #27. If its moderate news (no 2017, but most likely will recover), he may not be around for the Packers in the second round, unless they trade up. If no new news (too early to know his future), he should be around for awhile.

For Jaylon's sake I hope its nothing but really good news. But as a Packer fan, I kind of hope its somewhat inconclusive and everyone is left guessing. This might allow the Packers to roll the dice and pick him up in round 3 or later, after they plug some needs for 2016.

With Smith all but certainly missing the 2016 season I have a hard time believing any team will select him in the first round. If the recheck delivers a more positive long-term prognosis for him it´s possible teams will start thinking about drafting him early in the third round in my opinion. It´s possible he would drop to the Packers 88th overall selection though.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

With Smith all but certainly missing the 2016 season I have a hard time believing any team will select him in the first round. If the recheck delivers a more positive long-term prognosis for him it´s possible teams will start thinking about drafting him early in the third round in my opinion. It´s possible he would drop to the Packers 88th overall selection though.

Maybe its the media or teams playing poker, but I have read numerous articles about teams still having him on their board in the first round, if he looks like a full recovery for 2017. If that is the case and doctors think he will be 100% in 2017, I wouldn't be opposed to the Packers taking him in the first and using their next 2-3 picks to address DT and OLB. Then find an ILB like Scooby Wright in the 4th or later.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Maybe its the media or teams playing poker, but I have read numerous articles about teams still having him on their board in the first round, if he looks like a full recovery for 2017. If that is the case and doctors think he will be 100% in 2017, I wouldn't be opposed to the Packers taking him in the first and using their next 2-3 picks to address DT and OLB. Then find an ILB like Scooby Wright in the 4th or later.

I agree with HRE that no medical check will be able to guarantee Smith will be fully recovered for the 2017 season. I haven´t read anything about teams still planning on drafting him in the first round but that teams completely took him off the board after the combine. I would be extremely disappointed if the Packers don´t select an inside linebacker capable of making an immediate impact in the first three rounds and then pick Wright who doesn´t fit the team´s needs.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I would be extremely disappointed if the Packers don´t select an inside linebacker capable of making an immediate impact in the first three rounds

If Ragland is gone before the Packers pick, which I fully expect, its going to be hard to find that immediate impact and 3 down ILB for 2016. Brothers and Alexander are two other ILB's rated as 2nd or 3rd round pick, but I don't see either being immediate 3 down players. I'm sure you have stated it somewhere Captain, but who do you see as "the pick" at ILB if Ragland is gone?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If Ragland is gone before the Packers pick, which I fully expect, its going to be hard to find that immediate impact and 3 down ILB for 2016. Brothers and Alexander are two other ILB's rated as 2nd or 3rd round pick, but I don't see either being immediate 3 down players. I'm sure you have stated it somewhere Captain, but who do you see as "the pick" at ILB if Ragland is gone?

I think that Leonard Floyd is an intriguing prospect who could play inside linebacker. Otherwise out of the defensive linemen I would prefer to draft Jarran Reed.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think that Leonard Floyd is an intriguing prospect who could play inside linebacker. Otherwise out of the defensive linemen I would prefer to draft Jarran Reed.

Floyd to me is intriguing, but could be a bust or boom at OLB and switching him to ILB seems like an even bigger gamble. He is definitely going to need to bulk up no matter where he plays. I think he is more of a early to mid second rounder because of that. Once Ragland is gone, the pickings seem kind of slim at ILB. Which is why Jaylon Smith could be a gamble worth taking if the prognosis for 2017 is good.

I just hope TT has something up his sleeve for the position, other then ignoring it in Free Agency and whiffing on it in the draft.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Floyd to me is intriguing, but could be a bust or boom at OLB and switching him to ILB seems like an even bigger gamble. He is definitely going to need to bulk up no matter where he plays. I think he is more of a early to mid second rounder because of that. Once Ragland is gone, the pickings seem kind of slim at ILB. Which is why Jaylon Smith could be a gamble worth taking if the prognosis for 2017 is good.

In my opinion Floyd definitely presents a much needed upgrade at Will linebacker compared to anyone else currently on the Packers roster. While he mostly lined up on the edge he played 39% of his snaps either as an off ball linebacker or lined up over the slot. I agree that he would have to add some weight to defend the run or become an edge rusher in the NFL though.

If the Packers decide to draft Jaylon Smith the front office better come up with a short term solution, something Floyd could bring to the table.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

My dream scenario.......Ragland somehow slips to the Packers at #27. Packers manage to find Jaylon Smith still on the board in a later round. ILB potentially becomes a position of strength for years to come.

 

[jetfixer]

If we don't pick a first round LB, Ragland, Lee, Smith............we need to go back and look at Ryan's pre draft scouting report, That may lead us to see what Thompson is looking for.

 

[Poppa San]

If we don't pick a first round LB, Ragland, Lee, Smith............we need to go back and look at Ryan's pre draft scouting report, That may lead us to see what Thompson is looking for.

From: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/jake-ryan?id=2552314

Possesses straight-line speed to chase from sideline to sideline.

Very average lateral movement and footwork.

Faster than quick, he is scheme versatile and can fit inside or at the SAM linebacker spot in a 4-3. Ryan's productivity comes from toughness, play demeanor and physical tools. T

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If we don't pick a first round LB, Ragland, Lee, Smith............we need to go back and look at Ryan's pre draft scouting report, That may lead us to see what Thompson is looking for.

I don't want the Packers to draft Darron Lee and Jaylon Smith won't improve the position for the 2016 season. Thompson should draft an inside linebacker excelling in coverage, complementing Ryan's talent rather than adding more of the same.