Should the Packers Start Revoking Season Tickets?

[Pokerbrat2000]

You'd think that each team would have their own means of selling tickets, but they use Ticketmaster. There must be some benefit to it I'm not seeing.

Also, as previously mentioned. I believe it is Ticket Master and only Ticket Master that has an exclusive deal worked out with the Packers and Season Ticket holders. If you resell your tickets through Ticket Master, they will guarantee that the buyers, no matter what they do, can not get your season tickets revoked. Unlike what the Packers do if you or someone you directly give or sell your ticket to, gets booted for something, the Packers can revoke the season tickets.

 

[El Guapo]

It is not just the Packers. It is an NFL-wide ticketing deal: https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.c...eagues-and-Governing-Bodies/NFL-Ticketmaster/

Therefore the Packers organization may be hamstrung to some degree about what they can do outside of the league-wide deal.

 

[weeds]

Now, here's an interesting twist. Is anyone familiar with the Packers' PSL clause?

Ticket brokers sue Texans over changes to season-ticket procedures

The age of widespread legalized ticket reselling has not unfolded without a few potholes.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Firethorn1001]

I know there are laws and everything and no idea if the Texans broke any contracts, but I have a hard time feeling bad for any ticket broker (especially Ticketmaster)

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Absolutely not in favor of the idea as I would have no chance of getting tickets for a Packers home game any other way.

I think that is a key issue.

One of the things that makes Green Bay unique is that it is nearly impossible to get tickets for a game, other than the secondary market. Take that away, and you're going to alienate a lot of folks, and that probably isn't good business.

 

[El Guapo]

There is a clear difference between ticket holders selling tickets that they can not use, and brokers that are purely in the mix to make a profit off of fans. Nobody is discussing ending the secondary market. The Packers and Texans want tickets in their fans' hands.

If ticket brokers didn't exist, then you could just buy the tickets directly from the team.

 

[El Guapo]

Now, here's an interesting twist. Is anyone familiar with the Packers' PSL clause?

To be technical, the Packers do not have a PSL but a "user fee." They are pretty much the same from what I've been able to read, but I do not know the specific differences. From a outside perspective, it sounds like the Packers have preserved their rights by calling it a fee versus the buyer having some kind of license. I would assume that a license entitles the purchaser (fan, ticket broker) to certain rights that a Packers fan doesn't have with just a user fee.

Here are some links if someone wants to dive into it further. I don't!

Packers Season Ticket Holder Policies | Green Bay Packers – packers.com

Green Bay Packers Ticket Terms & Conditions

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

There is a clear difference between ticket holders selling tickets that they can not use, and brokers that are purely in the mix to make a profit off of fans. Nobody is discussing ending the secondary market. The Packers and Texans want tickets in their fans' hands.

If ticket brokers didn't exist, then you could just buy the tickets directly from the team.

Agree.

I am fine with a free and open market, one where the original buyer had the intent to use the tickets, but plans changed and now they need to sell them. That as to opposed to a small number of brokers, like Ticketmaster, using computers and other techniques, to buy up a large number of tickets for an event and then profiting through outrageous resale prices, because they and other large brokers "bought the house out". This is what happens at popular concerts and open market sporting events like the Super Bowl. No different than people who bought up shelves full of toilet paper during Covid and resold them for $5/roll.

I don't think there are enough tickets available for home Packer games, for brokers to "corner the Packer ticket market", for any given game. However, due to that limited supply, original buyers of Packer tickets (season ticket holders) are usually able to profit off of selling their tickets. I have yet to attend a game at Lambeau where I thought "yikes, how are there so many fans from the other team?" The visiting teams are allotted so many tickets, their fans buy those up. Then there is the resale market of Packer tickets, some by fans who have tickets but can't make the game. Whomever buys those on the open market, so be it. The other resale market for Packer tickets and the one that is on the table for elimination are those "fans" that hold season tickets, not to attend the games, but to profit by them. If the Packer organization can close that loophole, cut those buyers off and pass the tickets to real Packer fans, that have waited years for season tickets, then do it.

Supply and demand economics is a great thing, but not when the supply is being artificially controlled by monopolies.

 

[El Guapo]

I have yet to attend a game at Lambeau where I thought "yikes, how are there so many fans from the other team?"

Had you been at the Lions/Packers game in the rain last fall, you wouldn't be able to say this anymore! It was shocking how many Lions fans were there.

I completely agree with everything that you said BTW.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Had you been at the Lions/Packers game in the rain last fall, you wouldn't be able to say this anymore! It was shocking how many Lions fans were there.

I completely agree with everything that you said BTW.

I have been to a few Lions games over the years and yes, their fans travel well, especially in the last 4 or so years. There were "a lot" of Chiefs fans too, during their last visit to Lambeau. Again though, I think what you are seeing is a fan base that is willing to pay more (than Packer fans) on the secondary market for the chance to see a game at Lambeau.

I guess one has to ask what the motivation(s) is for the Packers Organization to possibly cut ties with those season ticket holders that aren't using the tickets themselves. Are they trying to give more Packer fans a chance to get season tickets? Have less visiting team fans in the stands? Reduce the number of Packer tickets in the secondary markets? Make more money selling new seat licenses? I think whether it is their intention or not, all of those things would happen.

I don't think there is any debate that demand for Packer tickets usually far exceed supply. So if the Packer organization can figure out a way to make more money on tickets/seat licenses and put more actual Packer fans in the seats, that would be great motivation for them to enact a policy of "if you don't use them yourself, you are out."

I'm guessing the Packer ticket market has become a lot like Rent Control. "I have no clue who holds the lease on this place, but I heard it was someone that would be 150 years old now."

 

[El Guapo]

I like to think that the Packers organization was thinking of little old me, trying to ensure that I get a pair of season tickets in the next ten years.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I like to think that the Packers organization was thinking of little old me, trying to ensure that I get a pair of season tickets in the next ten years.

Nope, they aren't.

What they are thinking about is how to extract more money for tickets, without making it look like they are asking fans to bend over and grab their ankles.

Imagine explaining this to someone, that has never heard of "Football".

"So here is what we are going to do. You and I are going to work our jobs for the next 80 hrs, get our paychecks, hand them directly over to that guy. Then we are going to fight our way through crowds, to watch a bunch of sweaty blokes on a playground for 3 hrs. Even more fun, don't bring any food or beer, you get it for 6 times the normal price in the stands. Are you in?"

 

[rmontro]

Imagine explaining this to someone, that has never heard of "Football".

"So here is what we are going to do. You and I are going to work our jobs for the next 80 hrs, get our paychecks, hand them directly over to that guy. Then we are going to fight our way through crowds, to watch a bunch of sweaty blokes on a playground for 3 hrs. Even more fun, don't bring any food or beer, you get it for 6 times the normal price in the stands. Are you in?"

I'm getting flashbacks to George Carlins Baseball/Football routine.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm getting flashbacks to George Carlins Baseball/Football routine.

A classic!

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[El Guapo]

Nope, they aren't.

What they are thinking about is how to extract more money for tickets, without making it look like they are asking fans to bend over and grab their ankles.

Imagine explaining this to someone, that has never heard of "Football".

"So here is what we are going to do. You and I are going to work our jobs for the next 80 hrs, get our paychecks, hand them directly over to that guy. Then we are going to fight our way through crowds, to watch a bunch of sweaty blokes on a playground for 3 hrs. Even more fun, don't bring any food or beer, you get it for 6 times the normal price in the stands. Are you in?"

No, I'm pretty sure that it's all about me.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

No, I'm pretty sure that it's all about me.

OK El Rodgers

 

[Todd Princl]

I have been to a few Lions games over the years and yes, their fans travel well, especially in the last 4 or so years. There were "a lot" of Chiefs fans too, during their last visit to Lambeau. Again though, I think what you are seeing is a fan base that is willing to pay more (than Packer fans) on the secondary market for the chance to see a game at Lambeau.

I guess one has to ask what the motivation(s) is for the Packers Organization to possibly cut ties with those season ticket holders that aren't using the tickets themselves. Are they trying to give more Packer fans a chance to get season tickets? Have less visiting team fans in the stands? Reduce the number of Packer tickets in the secondary markets? Make more money selling new seat licenses? I think whether it is their intention or not, all of those things would happen.

I don't think there is any debate that demand for Packer tickets usually far exceed supply. So if the Packer organization can figure out a way to make more money on tickets/seat licenses and put more actual Packer fans in the seats, that would be great motivation for them to enact a policy of "if you don't use them yourself, you are out."

I'm guessing the Packer ticket market has become a lot like Rent Control. "I have no clue who holds the lease on this place, but I heard it was someone that would be 150 years old now."

It is all a out the seat tax. There is a boatload of money to be made with the next buyer.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It is all a out the seat tax. There is a boatload of money to be made with the next buyer.

Agree.

When you have a reported waiting list of 150,000 people for season tickets, you have to be sitting around that boardroom table, scratching your heads and saying "I think we are leaving a lot of money on the table here. Now, how do we extract all that money without a lot of people noticing it?"

Rich men are playing the sport, and we are really nearing the point where only rich "men" can afford to attend it in person.

 

[El Guapo]

It will be interesting to see how many seats the Packers free up from revoking tickets. I keep reading that it will affect "less than 1% of the 40,000 accounts." I'll try to do the math. One percent of 40,000 accounts would be 400. Since each account has 2-4 tickets, I'll just make a guess that the average is 2.5 tickets on average. My assumption is that there are more people that have two tickets versus four. So 400 accounts times 2.5 seats equals 1,000 seats. The Packers claim that this would affect less than 1% and we know that fans can appeal, so the number will fluctuate. Therefore the Packers will clear up +/- 1,000 seats.

In the 90s and 2000s, my spot on the season ticket list dropped by a couple hundred spots each year. Since the South Endzone renovation in 2013, the average bumped up to 544 seats turned over on average per season. From 2021-2024, the average spiked up to 1,350 seats each season. Assuming that average remains plus the +/- 1,000 seats revoked, they might turn over 2,000-3,000 seats in 2025.