Shields' talks heating up

[TJV]

Packer Update says the tag amount for CBs is $$11.834M. The other tag amounts are here: http://packerupdate.net/?p=30733

 

[alien visitor]

The tag will be guaranteed monies. A 4 or 5 year deal will get worked.

 

[BorderRivals.com]

The tag will be guaranteed monies. A 4 or 5 year deal will get worked.

Or Shields quickly decides against a long-term deal and takes the one-year tag that will far exceed any deal he'd otherwise sign.

 

[longtimefan]

But will it be from the Packers? Something tells me TT is content with Williams, Hyde, Heyward, House and Bush. I have a feeling that Hyde will fight it out with House for the outside spot. I pray im wrong but ive seen TT let guys like Jenkins and Woodsoni go because he felt good about his cheaper draft picks and didnt want to "overpay".

No, he got rid of one year to soon than one year to late (woodson)

He screwed up on Jenkins

But I am hearing they want to find what his # is in free agency then have a shot to match..Similar what Jones did a few years ago

 

[longtimefan]

Or Shields quickly decides against a long-term deal and takes the one-year tag that will far exceed any deal he'd otherwise sign.

I am just guessing, but I dont see the Pack giving him 11$ per year on the tag

 

[SCpackerfan]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...agency-cannot-complete-deal-green-bay-packers

 

[OCBP]

You need to remember that this news is coming from the Shields camp. This is a leverage play to try to squeeze a few extra bucks out of the Pack. With news of the cap being higher than anticipated, I'm betting that Rosenhaus is telling Shields he will get more than the current offer. So, they offer this "news" to the media to spread and raise the stakes for the Pack. I don't think it necessarily means it's true, though, either. There is still time for the Pack to work out a deal. And I hope they do because Shields is a great CB that is still developing. With that said, every player has a value and the Packers would be foolish to overpay because that's what sets franchises back and hurts our ability to resign other key players.

Did TT overpay for Jones, Hawk, Kuhn, Burnett. He was, and still might, going to give Raji a big pay day. Isn't Shields a key player? Isn't Shields part of the draft and develop program?

I do not understand what you are saying? Should he let the starting center go too? TT can sign the WR's, which I encourage, go on the cheap for other role players and deploy the selective draft and develop strategy. In the meantime, his stars, Matthews and Rodgers wait for another SB appearance that likely won't materialize.

Good news is that GB will still be way below the salary cap and still have one of the youngest rosters in the NFL!

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Or Shields quickly decides against a long-term deal and takes the one-year tag that will far exceed any deal he'd otherwise sign.

Any deal he gets in free agency will guarantee him far more than $12 million.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

When considering long term contracts, you have to consider what I would call the additional "tacit guarantees".

Like you said, the only guarantee in Matthews 6 yr. / $70 mil deal was the $20.5 mil signing bonus. That's sounds like a cheap guarantee for this caliber player / contract.

However, for 2014, his dead cap number is $16.4 mil while his 2014 workout bonus + roster bonus + salary bonus = approx. $6.8 mil. The Packers would be strongly incentivized to keep Matthews on IR for the season and pay that $6.8 mil in cash rather than take the approx. $9.6 mil in net additional cap hit in 2014 were he to be released even if he were to sustain a permanent injury. So, given the contract structure, I'd consider that $6.8 mil a tacit guarantee. Teams, agents, players...they're all aware of what they're doing with these contracts and what it implies for future years.

For 2015, Matthews' dead cap number drops to $12.3 mil, while salary and bonuses totaling $8.6 mil. If he were to be released for that season, the net additional cap hit is $3.7 mil. So, there's an incentive to retain him for 2015 as well even if his impact has begun to decline somewhat.

In other threads, rumored Fitzgerald and Ware trades were discussed. Their respective teams are having difficulty affording them (or seeing good value in those players in any case), but their dead cap numbers are so prohibitive as to prevent releasing them. Further, a large dead cap number gives the player considerable leverage in any attempted renegotiation. In a word, these players have their incumbent teams over a barrel. Phoenix or Dallas would have to give me draft picks to take these contracts off their hands in any kind of trade, particularly in the case of Fitzgerald.

You're right about that teams mostly aren't able to either release or trade their superstar players as they would have to take a huge cap hit by doing it.

That's not the case with the majority of the players on the roster though as teams normally would save cap space by releasing them after one or two seasons.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I am interested in what Water Thurmond would cost. He plays bigger than he is listed and he has been trained by the best in Seattle.

I think Thurmond wouldn't cost a lot of money, but I don't think he's more than an average corner who BTW has played mostly in the slot. I rather have Hayward playing there.

 

[JBlood]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...agency-cannot-complete-deal-green-bay-packers[/quote

not good news.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

According to Ian Rapoport the Packers offered Shields less than $6 million per season.

 

[OCBP]

According to Ian Rapoport the Packers offered Shields less than $6 million per season.

If that's true, TT should have done the same thing he did with Woodson and just let him go. It really is amazing.

Draft/Develop!

 

[rodell330]

According to Ian Rapoport the Packers offered Shields less than $6 million per season.

If I was Shields id laugh in his face . It amazes me how this guy will overpay for guys like Brad Jones and Morgan Burnett but only offer your best corner less then 6 million a year smh . Freaking Amazing .

 

[adambr2]

Oh Ted, why do you have to do this to me? I've defended you ever since Justin Harrell. I got to laugh and gloat in the faces of every Brett Favre jock rider and Ted Thompson hater out there when you won it all in February 2011. When we signed Hawk, I supported it. When we cut Bishop, I said you must know more than us. When we signed Jones, I was skeptical, but I assumed you must know best.

But I can't defend why you would offer $8M to BJ Raji to do essentially nothing but won't offer $6M to try to keep one of the few playmakers we have on defense. This is a bad defense, Ted. It's been bad since the Super Bowl year. It's been bad because you've drafted poorly and you've made several bad contract decisions on defense. It's not a crazy coincidence why. It's very simple. It's not all you, there's been some bad luck and injuries, but you're responsible for a lot of it.

So please, this offseason, keep me on the bandwagon. Do something so I can say "See? He has a plan and knows exactly what he's doing". Don't turn me into another TT critic.

 

[JBlood]

I still have faith in Thompson to do the right thing--which will most likely be what ever he decides to do. But I'd be surprised if Shields isn't in Green and Gold next season.

 

[Zartan]

Just when you thought our defense couldn't get any more shittier :/

 

[JBlood]

Amish Mafia agrees with me, so the discussion is over

 

[Carl]

Oh Ted, why do you have to do this to me? I've defended you ever since Justin Harrell. I got to laugh and gloat in the faces of every Brett Favre jock rider and Ted Thompson hater out there when you won it all in February 2011. When we signed Hawk, I supported it. When we cut Bishop, I said you must know more than us. When we signed Jones, I was skeptical, but I assumed you must know best.

But I can't defend why you would offer $8M to BJ Raji to do essentially nothing but won't offer $6M to try to keep one of the few playmakers we have on defense. This is a bad defense, Ted. It's been bad since the Super Bowl year. It's been bad because you've drafted poorly and you've made several bad contract decisions on defense. It's not a crazy coincidence why. It's very simple. It's not all you, there's been some bad luck and injuries, but you're responsible for a lot of it.

So please, this offseason, keep me on the bandwagon. Do something so I can say "See? He has a plan and knows exactly what he's doing". Don't turn me into another TT critic.

If I was Shields id laugh in his face . It amazes me how this guy will overpay for guys like Brad Jones and Morgan Burnett but only offer your best corner less then 6 million a year smh . Freaking Amazing .

Why do you guys assume the reports about TT not offering enough are true, but not assume the ones that Shields wants 22.4 million over 4 years is true?

 

[El Guapo]

Latching onto reports about the Raji offered - which was done during the season - and relating it to his crappy play throughout the season is ridiculous reasoning. The same goes for assuming that contract negotiation reporting is accurate. It rarely is correct and is mostly posturing.

 

[brandon2348]

Shields' leverage scares me. He should demand twice the contract Burnett got and you really couldn't argue with his logic in wanting that. That is the contract is the gift that keeps on giving........me headaches.

Great point. Paying Burnett that contract and the way he performed last season continues to haunt. When I look at the roster and salaries it is the most "glaring" dark spot. It sticks out like a sore thumb and whats really bad is they cant get out of it.

 

[adambr2]

Why do you guys assume the reports about TT not offering enough are true, but not assume the ones that Shields wants 22.4 million over 4 years is true?

I never said that I believed 22.4M over 4 years was true. In fact I specifically said that I didn't think it was because I said if that was the contract request than it should have already been signed.

 

[Carl]

I never said that I believed 22.4M over 4 years was true. In fact I specifically said that I didn't think it was because I said if that was the contract request than it should have already been signed.

I know you never said you believed it. I asked why you didn't, but assumed other reports are true.

 

[Carl]

Latching onto reports about the Raji offered - which was done during the season - and relating it to his crappy play throughout the season is ridiculous reasoning. The same goes for assuming that contract negotiation reporting is accurate. It rarely is correct and is mostly posturing.

Same with Burnett's contract. Burnett's contract seemed deserved at the time and he was getting better and better, but somehow regressed this past season.

 

[adambr2]

I know you never said you believed it. I asked why you didn't, but assumed other reports are true.

Two reasons:

1) Drew Rosenhaus is pretty well known for being the Scott Boras of the NFL and I would find it to be very unusual if his highest demand for his client just weeks before free agency was a very team friendly contract.

2) I would be floored if Ted Thompson were to refuse a very team-friendly $5.6M a year contract for his top corner when he has plenty of cap space and just gave $6M dollars just 8 months ago to Morgan Burnett.


I'm hoping that the circumstances were such that Thompson was offering around $6M a year and Shields was looking for more like $9M-$10M a year, because I could live with where we are now with Shields if that is the situation.