1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Announcement is LIVE: Read the Forum Post

Shields' talks heating up

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by JBlood, Feb 25, 2014.

  1. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    6,040
    Ratings:
    +2,654
    I agree with signing Shields to a long term deal. Don´t think Gilbert or Dennard will be there when the Packers draft at #21. Bucannon is not a FS. And I´m not a fan of moving people around, get me a true safety.
     
  2. TCHickman24

    TCHickman24 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Messages:
    158
    Ratings:
    +79
    Bucannon played FS at WSU. Don't let the measurables fool you. Sure, he's 6"1, 215, but ran 4.49. I think he could more than handle the center field role.
     
  3. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    6,040
    Ratings:
    +2,654
    I don´t think his coverage skills are good enough to play FS at the NFL level though.
     
  4. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    6,040
    Ratings:
    +2,654
    Adam Schefter reports Packers and Shields won't get a deal done before free agency starts and that he'll test the market.
     
  5. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,908
    Ratings:
    +838
    Dammit. Well thats great news!!! Letting every team get into a bidding war will surely get him resigned!!!
     
  6. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,908
    Ratings:
    +838
    Someone (Miami) will overpay so he is as good as gone unless TT uses the tag. I though i heard he doesn't care for the cold weather anyways. He is from Miami, they will have cash to burn and his d-bag agent is based out of there.

    Either TT tags him or he spends all the extra money on a SAFETY and NOT on Raji.
     
  7. yooperpackfan

    yooperpackfan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2005
    Messages:
    808
    Ratings:
    +360
    I guess we will say goodbye to Shields.
    Ted won't get into a bidding war.
     
  8. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    6,040
    Ratings:
    +2,654
  9. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,908
    Ratings:
    +838
    I have a suspicion that he is a bit "soft". I wish someone with some knowledge could confirm or deny that for me. Its purely speculation on my part but his various times off for injuries don't pass my eye test from the limited info we get as fans.
     
  10. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,897
    Ratings:
    +1,433
    I can't even imagine how angry I will be if Shields signs elsewhere for $6-$8M a year and then we bring back Raji for a similar amount.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,323
    Ratings:
    +519
    I don't see that happening. If they don't sign Shields for $6-$8 mil, they surely won't sign Raji for that amount. We have to trust TT at least some on this.
     
  12. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    6,040
    Ratings:
    +2,654
    I would be upset if Shields signs for $6-$8 million with another team, no matter what happens with Raji.
     
  13. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,609
    Ratings:
    +2,549
    When considering long term contracts, you have to consider what I would call the additional "tacit guarantees".

    Like you said, the only guarantee in Matthews 6 yr. / $70 mil deal was the $20.5 mil signing bonus. That's sounds like a cheap guarantee for this caliber player / contract.

    However, for 2014, his dead cap number is $16.4 mil while his 2014 workout bonus + roster bonus + salary bonus = approx. $6.8 mil. The Packers would be strongly incentivized to keep Matthews on IR for the season and pay that $6.8 mil in cash rather than take the approx. $9.6 mil in net additional cap hit in 2014 were he to be released even if he were to sustain a permanent injury. So, given the contract structure, I'd consider that $6.8 mil a tacit guarantee. Teams, agents, players...they're all aware of what they're doing with these contracts and what it implies for future years.

    For 2015, Matthews' dead cap number drops to $12.3 mil, while salary and bonuses totaling $8.6 mil. If he were to be released for that season, the net additional cap hit is $3.7 mil. So, there's an incentive to retain him for 2015 as well even if his impact has begun to decline somewhat.

    In other threads, rumored Fitzgerald and Ware trades were discussed. Their respective teams are having difficulty affording them (or seeing good value in those players in any case), but their dead cap numbers are so prohibitive as to prevent releasing them. Further, a large dead cap number gives the player considerable leverage in any attempted renegotiation. In a word, these players have their incumbent teams over a barrel. Phoenix or Dallas would have to give me draft picks to take these contracts off their hands in any kind of trade, particularly in the case of Fitzgerald.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
  14. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,908
    Ratings:
    +838
    I don't want him for 6-8 per year. Think of all the tall wr's this team has to face twice a year. I want bigger and nastier to face off against the tall stable of NFC North wr's. 6-8 per year is a lot of money. I would rather take the comp pick at this point. I was all in at 5-6 per year with a bonus, but 6-8 is probably closer to 8 if not 9 or 10.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
  15. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,908
    Ratings:
    +838
    I am interested in what Water Thurmond would cost. He plays bigger than he is listed and he has been trained by the best in Seattle.
     
  16. OCBP

    OCBP Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2014
    Messages:
    355
    Ratings:
    +86
    Not sure what all the hype is? TT will draft and develop! If he loses his best player in the secondary, he'll just go to the draft board or sign a UFA cast off. It's worked before so most say! Don't ever underestimate Ted!

    Ha!
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  17. bubba

    bubba Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    103
    Ratings:
    +43
    Shields is good but I don't think he is worth 7 or 8 mill a year. I believe TT is doing the right thing here. It just seems to me Shields is just looking for a huge payday when he hasn't earned it yet. See Brad Jones and Morgan Burnett. TT not wanting to get torched again.
     
  18. OCBP

    OCBP Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2014
    Messages:
    355
    Ratings:
    +86
    I would agree. We'll find out as we did with Woodson what, if anything TT did to retain the services. It amazes how he makes these decisions. Kuhn, Hawk, Jones, Burnett, etc. stay. Yet, Jenkins, Woodson, now Shields flee.

    I might be wrong and he rolls up the sleeves in the FA market. However, if Shields goes, he just lost one of his top three starters on defense and best secondary position player. Head scratching.
     
  19. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2008
    Messages:
    2,217
    Ratings:
    +626
    How has he not earned it?
     
    • Old Old x 1
  20. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,243
    Ratings:
    +457

    I've posted this elsewhere but there are FAR more good/great corners under six feet tall than there are over six feet tall. The whole height thing is just plain silly. Revis seems to do pretty well for himself. As do Haden, Brent Grimes, Tyran Mathieu, Vontae Davis, Jason McCourty, Captain Munnerlyn, Leodis McKelvin, Ladarius Webb.

    If you just think it through you'll realize that it's VERY difficult for a QB to take advantage of a WR's 4" height advantage if the corner can actually play the ball well (which Shields does). Think about it. If both guys are jumping for the ball at the right time then there's basically a 4" window that a 6'3" WR would have that a 5'11" corner could do nothing about (before the catch). How many QBs can throw the ball THAT perfectly down the field? Second, the WR then has to come down with the ball and if the corner is playing the ball then chances are the corner will at least be able to get his arm between the receiver and the ball. At that point the corner can still cause an incompletion by jarring the ball loose. Now Calvin Johnson will basically always win those, but whether the corner is 5'10" or 6'2" doesn't matter against that guy. Give me a 5'10" corner with great ball skills over a 6'2" corner with poor instincts.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2008
    Messages:
    2,217
    Ratings:
    +626
    I don't like this at all. Shields is the best player in the secondary.
     
    • Old Old x 1
  22. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,243
    Ratings:
    +457

    He has earned it, people are just talking him down so that if he leaves it won't suck as much. Personally, to me, if Shields leaves then Thompson has some SERIOUS thinking to do about his whole 'draft-and-develop' philosophy since we basically just developed a great young corner for another team.
     
  23. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2008
    Messages:
    2,217
    Ratings:
    +626
    I'm with you 100% on that. I can't understand why people are talking down the secondary's best player. Shields had an extremely solid season and deserves a contract. What is the point of "drafting and developing" if you just let the player go as soon as their rookie contract?
     
    • Old Old x 1
  24. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    594
    Ratings:
    +499
    You need to remember that this news is coming from the Shields camp. This is a leverage play to try to squeeze a few extra bucks out of the Pack. With news of the cap being higher than anticipated, I'm betting that Rosenhaus is telling Shields he will get more than the current offer. So, they offer this "news" to the media to spread and raise the stakes for the Pack. I don't think it necessarily means it's true, though, either. There is still time for the Pack to work out a deal. And I hope they do because Shields is a great CB that is still developing. With that said, every player has a value and the Packers would be foolish to overpay because that's what sets franchises back and hurts our ability to resign other key players.
     
  25. alien visitor

    alien visitor Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    24
    Ratings:
    +5
    TT will tag him, than work out the details. The tag will be meaningless, and probably be worked into the signing bonus.
     

Share This Page