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Secondary seven deep now

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Eli Haugen, May 5, 2015.

  1. Eli Haugen

    Eli Haugen Cheesehead

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    I been excited about our young CBs we got. GB paid alot for them. I thought too many CBs were off the board for us to go that way. But apparently TT can pick the CBs like he can pick WRs. And his guys were still on the board. Now that he is investing into the secondary in the draft. Burnett 2nd round, Clinton-Dix 1st rd, Sheilds earned his gold helmet the hard way, Hyde 4th rd. Hayward 2nd rd. Now Randall a 1st and Rollins a 2nd.

    Thats some serious attention paid to our secondary. All 6 guys can intercept. Burnett's tackling got alot better as soon as the idea of Clindon-Dix / Hyde starting combo might be an option... Burnett started playing great I would say. Tackling was there. Dix, even though his learning curve was painful a handfull of times, I see him get in there and stick them big RBs. It doesnt matter that he didnt get them down every time. AP and Lynch dont go down every time. But eventually he will get that RB down, and he's always the first one there it seems. Hyde was the catylist IMO. He came in, and out played the veterans, he out played the high draft picks. He raised everyones level of play around him. AND he tackles like a LB. Hayward was a rookie phenom. Got hurt the 2nd year and has been getting better and better while staying healthy. He is the reason we were able to let Williams and House go.

    We are now adding 2 studs to the roster. Both these rookies tackle like a safety IMO. They may have some arm tackles in their highlight clips. Like so many people seem to want to point out. But like Dix, he will learn that doesnt work in the NFL. They will have to learn to tackle the knees of those mean RBs. Wrap them up like ninja wranglers.

    At least they get to the ball!!!

    Thats the bad... Young guys that may bounce off the elite RBs more than you'd like... so what!?!? The good far out weighs the bad. With Capers bozo defense solidly entrenched. With these 6 ball hawking secondary players... the opposing QBs better be on their game...

    And QBs like Cutler... LOL I know his record for ints in a game is impressive, but I bet we beat it.
     
  2. armand34

    armand34 Cheesehead

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    if the 2 new DB's can make an immediate impact, it def will be an exciting year of the D. However, that's a big if for year one.
     
  3. Half Empty

    Half Empty Cheesehead

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    Very short post, but one that leaves almost no room for expansion or objection.
     
  4. Twiddlemylobes

    Twiddlemylobes Fat Tuesday Orleans

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    I'd be the happiest guy in the stands if both rookies started and the saddest if neither did. But from a realists perspective, the probability is only 1 of the 2 will be starting caliber in the D secondary by regular season.
    But that's where Special Teams comes in.. ST provides another outlet for a guy that is a multitalented athlete but doesn't necessarily meet the standards of a starting DB early into his rookie year. These 2 particular guys are generally small but are quick and more physical than their size dictates. That's a good recipe for ST prototype gunner or return guy. etc..
    I'm quite sure, at first, they will get looks in all appropriate positional aspects of the game to see where they naturally excel.
    Im excited if we get 1 solid cover Corner out of the 2 that sticks. That position on many teams is a revolving door.
    I'm also very interested in pass pressure. We've spent a great deal of energy and resources getting QB pressure the last few years. The magic ingredient to a pro bowl caliber secondary man is the guys upfront doing the dirty work. The degree of QB pressure or O line blocking goes hand in hand with TO ratio. It hasn't been that long since we all watched Leroy and Charles dictating the amount of time the opposing QB had (or didn't have) to make his reads.
    We had adequate D pass pressure and some fine O pass blocking in 2014 and we have to keep our foot on the gas peddle here so we don't fall through the ice or get stuck in the deep ocean beach sand.
    Retire the 3 man prevent
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
  5. armand34

    armand34 Cheesehead

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    very short
     
  6. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Does 7 deep in the secondary outweigh 7 light in the front?
     
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  7. Eli Haugen

    Eli Haugen Cheesehead

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    Well even though we havnt invested nearly as much as the secondary. We have two (expensive) A grade LBs... And we have a wild card at NT in my opinion.I dont care what anyone says. a motivated Raji, is a dominant NT. He can take the double, and still get a push.... These are the must have components to get the pass rush. The front 3, highlighted by a dominant NT that destroys everyone. and OLBs who can get to the QB. We have the NT, and we have the LBs. All 1st round picks. Then we have the core. Daniels, Guion, Jones, Boyd, and new rookie Ringo, who I have high hopes for. Thats a great variety of big guys to rotate at DE. All of them have their strengths, and we can get the push we need, and even get after that QB some with these guys...

    Point is, We dont have to go without a front 7 (actually 2 down linemen and 3 or 4 LBs most plays) We should have a strong balanced defense this year.

    Next year we have Raji, Guion, and Daniels all up for new contracts. If we keep them a priority, i still doubt we can keep them all around. So Im confident for this coming season. But after that we could go down hill fast, if we need to depend on Jones, Boyd, Ringo to do all the heavy lifting...
     
  8. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Daniels will most likely be re-signed. NT will have to be addressed during next offseason either by re-signing one of Raji or Guion or by spending an early draft pick on the position.
     
  9. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Eli, It seems to me that a strong defense is incompatible with the frequent use of 2, or 1 defensive linemen, since the object of the game has always been to control the LOS. But maybe our unbalanced, unconventional defense will fool some of the teams some of the time.
     
  10. RRyder

    RRyder Cheesehead

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    Daniels is an almost must resign and as such I think TT gets that deal done. As of right now its a matter of price tag.

    Guion might be back but it'll be a cheap deal one way or another.

    I dont see a scenerio, even though im betting on him bouncing back to form, were Raji returns to the team. Gonna have to spend a high pick on a NT next year one way or another.

    Conversly I think Hayward is going to be a high in demand FA next year. I think he's going to be more then fine on the outside and as such will cost a pretty penny to retain. Id be trying to lock him up cheap right now but make no mistake part of the reason we drafted CBs in the 1st n 2nd rounds was so we could let Hayward walk if the price gets to high
     
  11. Eli Haugen

    Eli Haugen Cheesehead

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    I completely agree with your strategy there. 100%! And if I were the one making the calls, we would be stacked up front!!! But I am able to put that aside, and look at what we actually have. The strategy we are actually going for... Capers is a master mind. He can invent a defense to fill holes, and make up for glaring weaknesses. He built this defense to control the FIELD, rather than the line of scrimage... Where we came up short in the past, is we didnt have any D-line to play 7 or 8 man front, when we did face a good power run team. And we always got steam rolled in the playoffs...

    I think with the right talent Capers can pull this unique defense off. Im not going to question his plan much until next year when the draft comes, and new ideas are thrown around attached to new players... Right now the stage is set to have a replay of last year, and Im on board. Alot of ints. good coverage against deep WR corps, and good passing QBs. Good group tackling. And enough beef up front, when we need it, to keep them from steam rolling us. As long as we can stay healthy...

    Burnett, Haha, Sheilds, Hayward, Hyde, are ALL ball hawks! The two rookies are too!!! thats 7 guys that will snatch that ball right out of the air... This defense Capers has planned needs 6 guys like this to thrive. We have 6+, so lets swarm!
     
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  12. Eli Haugen

    Eli Haugen Cheesehead

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    Now that we are fairly committed to playing the 3-4 nickel 70% of the time again. That being 2 down linemen, and 5 or 6 D-backs out there.... Like last year....

    I'm going to have to say the front 7... excuse me, front 6 could use a little help with some blitzing from our secondary this year. The fastest guys, with the biggest element of suprise. The best angles, given they can come from literally any direction... And we have some good candidates to go make the tackle... All our D-backs can tackle IMO. For D-backs... Burnett has taken a big step last year, he should definately get more opportunities. Haha too, the way he moves around, he could sneak in there I bet... Hyde too. All our hybrid nickels, dimes, and safety's in our bee hive need to sting like a bee.....

    More!
     
  13. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    There is no "new job" for the secondary. "Now that we are fairly committed to playing ... nickel 70%..." is incorrect. That has been Capers' D for years now. And DBs blitzing is nothing new. BTW, 5 DBs = nickel; 6DBs = dime.
     
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  14. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I agree that Daniels is a must sign and that´s while it´s risky it could work out in the Packers advantage to extend Hayward´s contract now. The Packers were ready to sign Guion to a multi-year contract before he was arrested in Florida so I´m not convinced he will just ask for another cheap deal if he stays out of trouble.
     
  15. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    If Hayward plays really well, I see him coming back. TT doesn't let really good players go after a rookie deal. House is the best guy he has let go in recent years who was solid and coming off his rookie deal.
     
  16. Eli Haugen

    Eli Haugen Cheesehead

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    Look. you want to treat me like an idiot, then I will do the same to you... When you guys were hammering this FACT that GB plays nickel 70% of the plays last year. Did I split hairs asking if 6 Dbacks counted in the nickel you speak of??? No.

    No **** 6 d-backs is a dime. You think you are talking to a rookie here? give me a break...

    And NO! The secondary doesnt blitz, because our defense as a whole hasnt been good enough to allow it. for half a decade or more....... I say if we are going to invest in the secondary this heavily. We need to get some more, and effective blitzing from the secondary.
     
  17. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    Um...yeah the secondary does blitz.
     
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  18. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I feel like we are missing an elite secondary player
     
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  19. Eli Haugen

    Eli Haugen Cheesehead

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    im away from the computer to look things up. but im going to have to see some stats on how many qb pressures and sacks from our secondary...

    p.s. i want 10 sacks from safeties and 6 from cbs.
     
  20. Eli Haugen

    Eli Haugen Cheesehead

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    im in total agreement on the elite defender needed. i beleive burnett is/will take that role. i would also like to see hyde up in there more, he makes plays...
     
  21. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    Are those numbers serious?

    The league leaders for sacks from the secondary last season had 3.0 (Micheal Griffen, Mark Barron and Brandon Merriweather). Ten sacks would be better than most pash rushers.

    The most by a corner was a grand total of one.

    You're never going to get what you want.
     
  22. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    He meant total. But that is still not a realistic objective. If we get 10 sacks from the entire secondary, that would be great.


    Thoughts

    - In 2011 the Packer defense gave up tons of yards but not points. It seems they focused on picking off the ball more than preventing receptions. They just drafted 2 guys who are seen as ball-hawks. I wonder if the emphasis is going back to the 2011 interception focus. I hope not.

    - Ranking the worst tacklers in NFL history, I would rate #1 : Deon Sanders #2 Commartie. My point is, you don't have to be a good tackler to be a great CB. Sanders and Commartie would purposely take themselves out of plays so they wouldn't have to get to the ball carrier. But both Randall and Quentin are very 'willing' tacklers.

    - I don't think either will start at the beginning of the season. Randall will probably be the nickle at the season's start. by the end of the year, he can probably work into starting CB spot.

    - We are loaded with talent in the backfield. We should be able to match up with any WR group.
     
  23. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    As for the title of this tread, it should read "Secondary eight deep now."

    If anybody thinks Richardson will be cut while he's sitting on $2.35 mil guarantee they'd be mistaken.

    It's a swap of Willams and House for Randall and Rollins. Maybe Bush and Banjo for ? and ? either on the roster or PS.

    It's just a question of whether the team carries 8, 9 or 10, and who 9 or 10 might be.
     
  24. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    That's a legitimate concern.
     
  25. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    You wrote, “Now that we are fairly committed to playing the 3-4 nickel 70% of the time again. That being 2 down linemen, and 5 or 6 D-backs out there.... Like last year....” It was your explanation of the 3-4 nickel “being... 5 or 6 D-backs”. My clarification was an aside – not a big deal, that’s why I wrote, “BTW…” And BTW, I look forward to you quoting a post of mine in which I wrote the Packers played nickel 70% of the time last season.

    But that’s not the bigger picture, which IMO you also misunderstand. “Secondary seven deep now”, implies it wasn’t seven deep before. Last year’s secondary: Shields, Williams, Hayward, Hyde, House, Burnett, and Clinton-Dix. This year’s secondary: Shields, Hayward, Hyde, Randall, Rollins, Burnett, and Clinton-Dix. Randall and Rollins take Williams and House’s spots. I’m excited to see how the new DBs play but they are rookies. Right now we don’t know how well Williams’ replacement at outside CB opposite Shields will play, no matter who takes that spot. Because they’re depending upon rookies IMO its fair to say we don’t know how deep the secondary is this season. But by any comparison to this season, the secondary was 7 deep last season.

    “Now that we are fairly committed” implies it’s something new. It’s not. Capers has played a lot of nickel since he arrived in Green Bay. Any Packers fan paying attention knows that.
    Half a decade takes us back to Capers’ second year. Again any Packers fan paying attention knows DB blitzing has been a part of Capers’ D since he arrived. Here’s a quote from a jsonline story dated Oct 26, 2011:
    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/puttin-on-the-blitz-132669698.html That was after seven games of the season and according to the story, DBs had blitzed 72 times. You don’t need to be reminded that falls within your half a decade time frame, do you? In McGinn’s review of game 16 of last season at the Buccaneers he wrote, “Given 16 blitzes in the last seven games, Burnett also has made strides as a rusher.” That’s just two examples.

    So yes, with regard to the content and quality of your posts, I do think you are a rookie. For example, you post things without backing them up and you disagree with, or ignore facts that go against your opinions without doing so with facts of your own. IMO you have joined a group of posters who proclaimed how much they know about the Packers and the NFL when they arrived at this board and then proceeded to prove otherwise. That wouldn’t be a big deal if you were willing to learn – and every single poster here has the opportunity to learn something – but you’ve stated you won’t.

    Edit: More proof you have a lot to learn. You went on and on about how you want a pass rush from the DL and you posted you want 10 sacks from each DE (or was that 12?) and 6 from the NT. Now you add you want 10 sacks from the safeties and 6 from the CBs. That's 42 sacks without considering the LBs which usually lead 3-4 teams in sacks. The more you post, the more foolish you look.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2015
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