Secondary seven deep now

[Carl]

He meant total. But that is still not a realistic objective. If we get 10 sacks from the entire secondary, that would be great.


Thoughts

- In 2011 the Packer defense gave up tons of yards but not points. It seems they focused on picking off the ball more than preventing receptions. They just drafted 2 guys who are seen as ball-hawks. I wonder if the emphasis is going back to the 2011 interception focus. I hope not.

- Ranking the worst tacklers in NFL history, I would rate #1 : Deon Sanders #2 Commartie. My point is, you don't have to be a good tackler to be a great CB. Sanders and Commartie would purposely take themselves out of plays so they wouldn't have to get to the ball carrier. But both Randall and Quentin are very 'willing' tacklers.

- I don't think either will start at the beginning of the season. Randall will probably be the nickle at the season's start. by the end of the year, he can probably work into starting CB spot.

- We are loaded with talent in the backfield. We should be able to match up with any WR group.

My bad that he meant total, but 10 sacks from safeties would be still unrealistic.

 

[Half Empty]

Thoughts

- In 2011 the Packer defense gave up tons of yards but not points. It seems they focused on picking off the ball more than preventing receptions. They just drafted 2 guys who are seen as ball-hawks. I wonder if the emphasis is going back to the 2011 interception focus. I hope not.

22nd in points allowed https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-points-per-game?date=2012-02-05

 

[TJV]

nfl.com has the Packers 19th in points allowed during the 2011 season at 22.4. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...siveStatisticCategory=SCORING&qualified=false
Half Empty's link includes the playoff game.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Are those numbers serious?

The league leaders for sacks from the secondary last season had 3.0 (Micheal Griffen, Mark Barron and Brandon Merriweather). Ten sacks would be better than most pash rushers.

The most by a corner was a grand total of one.

You're never going to get what you want.

no, not serious. Just messing with you guys now. Thought you guys would catch on that our battle about getting double digit sacks from ends and 6 from the NT being unrealistic... Thought you guys would lose a gasket if i said that about the secondary.

Now thats an unrealistic expectation. !

But seriously its like when you really want something, and you really like it. Its like, we want more, we want more! We really like it, we want more! Sacks/pressure from the secondary...

 

[Carl]

no, not serious. Just messing with you guys now. Thought you guys would catch on that our battle about getting double digit sacks from ends and 6 from the NT being unrealistic... Thought you guys would lose a gasket if i said that about the secondary.

Now thats an unrealistic expectation. !

But seriously its like when you really want something, and you really like it. Its like, we want more, we want more! We really like it, we want more! Sacks/pressure from the secondary...

I'm clearly not good at catching on to things

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

I'm clearly not good at catching on to things

I should have clarified that im completely full of it

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

If Hayward plays really well, I see him coming back. TT doesn't let really good players go after a rookie deal. House is the best guy he has let go in recent years who was solid and coming off his rookie deal.

injuries cost him... i liked house a lot too...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

And NO! The secondary doesnt blitz, because our defense as a whole hasnt been good enough to allow it. for half a decade or more....... I say if we are going to invest in the secondary this heavily. We need to get some more, and effective blitzing from the secondary.

The Packers blitzed a defensive back on 18.7% of the snaps last season.

im away from the computer to look things up. but im going to have to see some stats on how many qb pressures and sacks from our secondary...

The defensive backs combined for 3.5 sacks, 3 QB hits and 15 hurries in 2014. In addition Burnett had another two sacks in the playoffs.

 

[The program 61]

Burnett will be gone as his contract expires. with Randall at least we have the depth new to the forum love everyones opinion.

 

[The program 61]

injuries cost him... i liked house a lot too...

Hayward 7 or 8 interceptions rookie year thought he was ball hawk now is his spot to lose might just be a slot corner potential who knows. should sign undrafted WRS who are 6'5 and do aj ump ball drill see how well he does.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Burnett will be gone as his contract expires. with Randall at least we have the depth new to the forum love everyones opinion.

Burnett is signed theough 2017, it's too early to worry about what will happen at that point.

Hayward 7 or 8 interceptions rookie year thought he was ball hawk now is his spot to lose might just be a slot corner potential who knows. should sign undrafted WRS who are 6'5 and do aj ump ball drill see how well he does.

Hayward had six interception during his rookie season, four of them came with him playing outside.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

I seen the looks when GB drafted Randall and Rollins. Ummmmmm like ones a FS that was a CB but played FS for the scheme but he will play... FS/CB? no CB. But Rollins he is a CB that will play ........ um FS......? No CB for us or .... um . Wellll you see... Hyde/ Haha did so well, we drafted more tweeners...

Thats the answer. Hyde and haha did so dang well. We drafted more guys who can tackle. They are everywhere. They catch better than many WRs do. And best of all they swarm tackle.

People want to point out Haha's missed tackles? He was hitting guys behind the line and making them deal with his 200 lbs. Rbs like Peterson and Lynch dont go down. But it allowed the team to rally and get there to finish, many times...

Hyde too. Too slow, tweener. yadda yadda. He tackles everything. He's everywhere. Including inbetween.

Hayward is a "small, slow CB" Guess what? He tackles, and he catches the ball very very well. I've been enlightened to the value of quickness and change of direction in relation to pure speed, at CB. Pure speed is nice, but not a must. a half second makes up everything lost, and when our guys get there, they bring the heat.

I know my optimism seems outlandish when talking about rookies. But Randall and Rollins are of the same mold... they do it all and they carried their teams in college. If they come out and play like Hyde and Haha did as rookies. Im thinking we will have a swarming nickel/dime defense that catches aLOT of ints...

 

[SoonerPack]

I love your optimism and don't think it's completely unfounded. Speed is a flashy thing. People love speed be it cars, boats, planes or human beings. It's ****. It's something most of us don't posses much of therefore are enamored with it! I too like speed but I also like proper technique and understanding of angles and using them to ones advantage. There are a few cats that come along that posses all of the above but for the most part it's a one or the other scenario. I love the group we have assembled in the secondary and have tremendously high hopes for them. Sam is the speed guy but he is also getting to that point in his career where the mental side of the game should start to meld with the athletic side, which we all know is immense. Casey is the epitome of a ball-hawk. I know that term is overly used but the kid does have a knack for being in the right place at the right time and making the play when it presents itself. Micah H. is one of my favorite Packers for many-a-reason. He is a team first kind of guy that can contribute in many different ways. I am expecting him to make a significant jump this year and could easily see him ending up with 5+ picks come years end. The young bucks make me smile from ear to ear. Randall has the speed (4.46) to run with most guys and that fact he played safety allows him to understand the complete structure of the secondary from front to back. Most folks that look at him believe he was a CB playing S for ASU out of necessity. ASU head man Todd Graham puts the biggest burden on his safeties when it comes to workload and responsibility. The fact he had DR playing safety only solidifies in my mind the confidence he had in him as a playmaker. Rollins is raw and I don't think that's a bad thing at the end of the day. He doesn't have a ton of bad habits Whitt will have to overcome or reprogram. He is one of those guys that falls into the technique category and if he applies himself can end up being a pretty darn good player for years to come. You either have a nose for the ball or you don't and most of our guys have just that. Above all the attributes I look for in secondary guys the ability to track and snatch the ball is paramount. The NFL is a game of inches and more times than not the TO battle is the deciding factor in most games. I fully expect there to be some growing pains and "WTF?!?" moments early in the season but my money is on them growing as a unit and becoming a headache for opposing QB's as the year progresses. One could easily argue I/we are being homers but the above is what I think COULD happen. Yes, there is a chance they flame out but I don't think that will happen. Whitt has shown he can develop guys and the skill set and mental makeup of the guys we have now should thrive in that environment. Furthermore what better way to better yourself than matching up against and the likes of 12, 87, 18 and 17 on a daily basis?! Getting to go against that level of talent on a daily basis is something many teams don't have the luxury of and I believe it will serve us well this upcoming season. I have ran longer than expected but damn I am pumped about both this upcoming season as well as this talented group of youngsters in the back end. I didn't even touch on the safeties which should really bring it this year as well as Gunter who appears determined to be the next UDFA to make a name for himself in GB. That kid just has something about him that makes me think we got ourselves a goodin' for nothin'! Things are lookin up for our beloved squad this year and I have no doubt that a special season is just about upon us. God Bless all of y'all and as always G P G!!!

PS: At work post written on the fly so please forgive any egregious spelling/grammar issues...

 

[JK64]

Randall out injured again. Sheesh the guy hasn't even played in a game. I hope Randall isn't Nick Perry part 2. I don't care how good Randall is, if he never sees playing time. Frustrating, because I was hoping to see him live thursday.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Randall out injured again. Sheesh the guy hasn't even played in a game. I hope Randall isn't Nick Perry part 2. I don't care how good Randall is, if he never sees playing time. Frustrating, because I was hoping to see him live thursday.

not great start...

 

[SoonerPack]

At ASU he played in 25 of 27 possible games so he doesn't appear to have a track record of not being able to take the field. Let's hope these are just minor things and they stay that way. The kid was a 1st round pick that is going to be counted on to play and play a lot. I am sure they are being extra careful with him since the real bullets don't start flying for about another month. I do understand the importance of him getting some real game action but not if it comes at the risk of making something minor a lingering problem. This is what I am telling my self at least...

 

[TJV]

Randall out injured again. Sheesh the guy hasn't even played in a game. I hope Randall isn't Nick Perry part 2. I don't care how good Randall is, if he never sees playing time. Frustrating, because I was hoping to see him live thursday.

I want to see him play too but it's not as if he's been plagued with injuries in college (as SoonerPack pointed out) or since he arrived in Green Bay. According to jsonline, he left practice 'a few days ago with a groin injury' - then participated in Family night and was sidelined with the same injury today. Groin injuries can recur and it's a concern but "out injured again" and "...never sees playing time" seem exaggerated to me. And because of the nature of groin injuries I prefer them being careful with him. If he's held out past Thursday and it never bothers him again this season, sitting out will have been well worth it.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I like the optimism about the secondary being shown here but there's reason for concern on the outside opposite Shields. There's not a single player on the roster that has played there for an extended period of time and a lot of uncertainty entering the season.

 

[Vrill]

In the end, I think we'll be more than fine in the secondary. ILB next to Sam is what worries me more.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

In the end, I think we'll be more than fine in the secondary. ILB next to Sam is what worries me more.

Matthews will continue to take a lot of snaps there as long as the other outside linebackers continue to be productive. The Packers need one of the inside linebackers on the roster to step up once Matthews moves outside. That's a major concern entering the season as well.

 

[vince]

I like the optimism about the secondary being shown here but there's reason for concern on the outside opposite Shields. There's not a single player on the roster that has played there for an extended period of time and a lot of uncertainty entering the season.

Agreed. There could be a liability against big receivers. Hayward and Randall can cover with the best of them but neither appears to excel pressing at the line. They would seem to be much better playing off the receiver and seeing what's in front of them. There are also questions about their ability to run deep and/or their size to defend the high-point against the big physical perimeter guys who seem to be everywhere these days.

Gunter may be the most physical and well-suited to defend big receivers but he's been beaten over the top at least a few times in camp which can't happen consistently.

These guys are going to have to perfect their technique to overcome the areas in which they may be susceptible. That can happen but how quickly it might happen is a big question.

There are also questions about how complex they may be able to get disguising and switching coverages early due to inexperience working together.

All of these concerns can be aided with pressure, which is why I'm hoping Dom turns it up this year. I'd rather see these guys on an island using their great natural ability for a shorter timeframe and making plays on the ball than having to cover deep, pass guys off to each other, get exotic, etc. That doesn't play to anyone's skills, as we've seen over the years with Capers, but especially not this group.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Agreed. There could be a liability against big receivers. Hayward and Randall can cover with the best of them but neither appears to excel pressing at the line. They would seem to be much better playing off the receiver and seeing what's in front of them. There are also questions about their ability to run deep and/or their size to defend the high-point against the big physical perimeter guys who seem to be everywhere these days.

I'm especially concerned about Hayward's ability to consistently defend jump balls vs. taller receivers. At 5-11 I would feel more comfortable about him if he had a better vertical jump (34 inches).

 

[vince]

Yeah he also likes to jump routes which is good when he's right. When he's wrong we saw what happened late in the NFCC game last year when he got beat badly down the sideline and gave up a huge play.

If Gunter can perfect the patented Revis "turn-and-look-at-the-QB-while-cutting-off-the-deep-route" technique he could be effective - in time.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yeah he also likes to jump routes which is good when he's right. When he's wrong we saw what happened late in the NFCC game last year when he got beat badly down the sideline and gave up a huge play.

Let's hope the Packers provide him with safety help over the top when Hayward jumps routes. You're right that's great when it works (4 INTs on the outside as a rookie) but results in huge gains once it doesn't (30 yards per reception playing on the perimeter).

If Gunter can perfect the patented Revis "turn-and-look-at-the-QB-while-cutting-off-the-deep-route" technique he could be effective - in time.

Revis is significantly faster than Gunter though.

 

[PikeBadger]

Let's hope the Packers provide him with safety help over the top when Hayward jumps routes. You're right that's great when it works (4 INTs on the outside as a rookie) but results in huge gains once it doesn't (30 yards per reception playing on the perimeter).



Revis is significantly faster than Gunter though.

Seeing that we won't be at full strength on the d-line for the first month of the season and working under the assumption we should have a top 5 offense in points per possession, I'd be inclined to have our corners jumping short routes on a fairly regular scheduled basis in order put immense pressure on opposing o-coordinators to keep from being blown out.