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Saints fans are insane

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by ivo610, Dec 26, 2011.

  1. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  2. slaughter25

    slaughter25 Cheesehead

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    In my eyes he is not the GOAT, nor has he ever been the no brainer best in the league for a single year like some guys named Peyton and Tom, but i can see why saints fans could think this way. Is Rodgers having the best season of a QB ever? not anymore IMO but there are still announcers /fans that think so. Call it homerism call it what you want. But in the end opinions are like assholes, everyone got em.
     
  3. Bensalama21

    Bensalama21 Ben

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  4. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    I wonder what these guys will say if Brees doesn't get a new deal he likes, gets franchised, forces his way out of N.O.
     
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  5. cheesehurdler

    cheesehurdler Cheesehead

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    Do the Saints run the West Coast Offense, too? Because that's what the Packers have been running for years. They've just been much more efficient than past seasons.
     
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  6. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    Eh, a few overenthusiastic Saints fans. No big deal. Let him have their fun.
     
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  7. packerfan4ever

    packerfan4ever Cheesehead

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    Like one saint fan said we get turn overs and, at times get points off of them that is key,and I think A-Rod will eat up saints d-line better than last time we will have a better run game than what they think.
     
  8. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    Brees is the best thing Saints fans have EVER seen. You know, before him the best things they had for a QB was Bobby Hebert and Aaron Brooks, oh and I guess you can count Archie Manning (I wasn't alive to see him play to know if he really sucked or not). That's probably why they say that. I know people that seen Archie Manning play, and they claim he's only famous for the name. Saints fans did get plenty of Joe Montana from the 1980's when the 49ers would crush them back to back every season. Saints couldn't sweep SF until Steve Young was out of there.

    I love Brees to death, but even I wouldn't say he's the "greatest ever". I put him in the top 10, but I don't have above Moon or Steve Young for a reason. He's one of my all time favorites easily, and I can't say anything bad about him, but I don't think I would compare him to Marino, Montana or any of those guys from the old days.

    Even if he breaks Marino's record, he's not the best of all time. I can't even compare him to the old age quarterbacks. What makes Marino's 49 TD's/5,000 passing yards record so spectacular is he did it back in the days the quarterback got treated like a regular player, and also the quarterback couldn't throw out of bounds, you had to force it (that's why interception numbers are much higher back then). When Manning and Brady got to 48-50 TD's I didn't find it that amazing, cause rules these days do favor the quarterback. For a man that never won a Super Bowl, I believe Marino would have a ring or two if he played in today's league. I do hope Brees breaks that record, but even if he does, it's not as mind blowing as when Marino set the record. Brees already had a 5,000 yard season a few years back, he might as well own the record.


    Would I take Brees over Manning and Brady? Damn right I would...I've always thought he was better than Manning, but that's just me. I have also found Manning to be a bit overrated in times (just look at that playoff record when he has a career season)

    Would I take Brees over Montana, or Marino? No....Montana still is the greatest quarterback of all time, even if Rodgers edges in on him, I will never take anyone over Joe Cool.
     
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  9. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    BTW you know a band wagon Saints fan when they starting saying Hebert and Aaron Brooks were bad quarterbacks that sucked for them. Brooks got them in the playoffs (78% of band wagon Saints fans don't know that they made the playoffs in 2000) and overall, Aaron Brooks could have been developed into a good quarterback. I see them badmouthing him quite a lot on Saints forums cause they can't go without comparing him to Drew Brees, but I liked Aaron Brooks, and he had his moments but you can't tell them that on their boards without them comparing him to Brees "Woah dude, why you talk about him like that!? We got Drew Brees and you said Aaron Brooks was a good quarterback? What's wrong with you!"

    And you know you're talking to a band wagon fan if they start badmouthing Bobby Hebert and saying "We didn't have a quarterback" back when that defense had it's prime as the "Dome Patrol". Hebert wasn't a top quarterback, but he wasn't bad for an offense that consisted of driving some yards and kicking field goals for most the game, and then depending on their defense do 75% of the job.
     
  10. peteralan71

    peteralan71 Cheesehead

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    I really like Drew Brees. A lot. His character makes him likable just as much as his talents. I don't think that he'll win the MVP obviously, but any other year, he should. He's a great football player. Rodgers is just playing better. If Rodgers had the # of passes that Brees has, maintaining a consistent avg. yds per pass, he'd end the season with 5721 yds. THAT is amazing. We're so lucky.
     
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  11. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    What do expect from fans? Unbiased opinions?

    Never understood the near unanimous love for Montana as the GOAT. He had ice water in his veins during crunch times, but was he really so great the rest of the time? A couple of big dramatic wins and he gets the attention. I never saw him play, but I'm amazed at the stats for Otto Graham. He played 10 years and had a 105-17-4 record. He must be the winningest QB of all time (based on percentage)
     
  12. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Having a QB like Rodgers or Brees helps makes a West Coast Offense work to its maximum potential, naturally. I'm not sure if I would call the Saints a true West Coast Offense. The difference between the Saints and Packers is the Saints run the ball a lot more and with more success.

    In regards to the Saints fans, I would actually come to expect that. We all like to think our own QB is the best in the league. It's just homerism in its purest form and perhaps a bit of loyalty.
     
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  13. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    Did Packers fans ever mock the team by wearing paper bags over their heads in the 70's and 80's?
    If not, then that right there proves which fans are better.
     
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  14. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    My litmus test for greatest QBs is how many championships they have won.
     
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  15. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    So Otto Graham is 1? fair enough. Starr 2? Montana 3? Hard to argue with that.
     
  16. VersusTheMoose

    VersusTheMoose Greatest of All-Time

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    I wouldn't expect anything different from NO fans. They have had a series of polished turds as teams over the years, now have a SB, a HoF caliber QB and a team they can be proud of.

    With that said, it isn't even close to being true. He has never been the single best QB in the NFL any given season. With another couple solid seasons to finish his career he may be able to make a case for the top 10 of all-time, but he is not even in the top three of his generation in my opinion.
     
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  17. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    Oh I totally agree. Niner fans will argue you all day that Joe cool was the best QB ever, as will Dolphins fans still argue over Marino, that's just what you expect from any fan base.


    As regards to the Saints offense, they don't run West Coast offense.

    The best thing I have seen to compare the Saints offense under Brees is to the Staubach years in Dallas under Tom Landry.

    I went back and watched both Super Bowls between Dallas and Pittsburgh from the 70's, and I've seen many games between the Cowboys when they had Staubach and Tony Dorsett. Sean Payton's playbook is like an updated version of Landry's TE built offense.
    The Cowboys liked to use 2 tight ends back then, but most of their playbook was centered around the Tight End and screens. You see Staubach tossing it out to Dorsett quite a lot in those old highlights, and they also built plays around using the tight end in tight coverage, just as N.O. does with Jimmy Graham.
    Compare those old Cowboy offenses from the 70's to the 2009-2011 Saints and you see some high similarities from the I formation shifts (they used this in 2009, don't really touch it anymore) to the flea flicker bombs. I've always believed Payton took Landry's offensive play calling and has taken it to a next level. If Tom Landry was still alive, he'd probably be proud of him.


    As far as the west coast offense goes, I don't think it's the best offense in the world, but that's just me. It's really hard to say what's the "best' offensive style play formation, cause everyone has their differences. Just because NO don't have a west coast offense, that don't mean their offense needs to be changed. If you can win with it, don't mess it up.
     
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  18. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    He wasn't the best QB in 2009?


    Drew Brees 365/514, 70.6%, 4,388 yards, 34 TD/11 INT
    Peyton Manning 393/571, 68.8%, 4,500 yards, 33 TD/16 INT


    Looks like he out played everyone's favorite for MVP that season, and in the Super Bowl, everyone over looks the stats for the interception but Brees had far better numbers than Manning. I've never seen a QB ever play at his level and constantly get snubbed, Brees puts up MVP numbers in 2009, losses the MVP for the golden boy, and people still talk like he's not good enough.
     
  19. VersusTheMoose

    VersusTheMoose Greatest of All-Time

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    I would have to watch the games again, you cannot just give me numbers and tell me he outplayed Peyton. Brees will have a better percentage and more yards than Rodgers this year, doesn't mean he was the better QB.
     
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  20. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    He out played Peyton in 2009, stat's don't lie. He OWNED Manning in 2009 and still gets snubbed. He's always "good but not good enough"

    11 INTs vs 16 INT's vs a 70.6 completion rate vs 68.8% completion percentage, yeah Manning is the greatest ever, and Brees is just OK and will never be good enough to be an MVP. He should have won the MVP in 2009, those stats are enough to prove it. Manning only won it because he's the golden boy league favorite just like Brady.


    Seriously, Falcon fans are the only other fan base that I see that actually gives Brees credit, and they hate these guys worse than anyone else does, but they have enough to admit it and say he's better than Matt Ryan, and better than most people say he is. Everyone else always snubs him and talks like he's not good enough. When his name comes up for MVP discussion it's a million excuses to not say he deserves it. He out played Manning and lost it in 2009, if he actually wins it this year, you can say he did out play Rodgers, as he has a higher completion percentage than him, yards don't really matter.
     
  21. VersusTheMoose

    VersusTheMoose Greatest of All-Time

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    If you are only going by stats than Favre should have won the MVP in '09. One less TD but 4 less INTs, that means more to me than percentage and yards to me. Opinions, everyone has them. Sadly that does not make them facts.
     
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  22. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    You can't always judge based on championships. What if worse comes to worse this year and the Packers don't win the SB? Are you going to hold that against Aaron Rodgers even though the fault might lie on the D or O-line? It takes a team to win a championship, most of the time. But lets use Luck as an example here because he is relevant. Say Luck gets drafted to the Colts, and the rest of the Colts still suck (sorry Jules, just an example): no receiving corps for Luck to throw the ball to, deplorable pass protection, terrible D... Luck could be one of the greatest QBs in the league never to win a championship. But I personally would recognize his skills, despite his team and despite his lack of championships. Us Packers fans are spoiled when it comes to having 13 championships to be able to throw that around. I don't think you can fully account a QBs rating based on championships, it's a bit unfair as sometimes a QB with no championships at all was a greater QB than one with one or several.
     
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  23. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    Same can be said about Warren Moon or Randall Cunnigham or Even Dan Marino.

    Everyone knows I favor Moon, and he probably would have his ring if he he had a better defense that didn't get caught up in constant shoot outs or if he didn't constantly get injured but stat wise, Moon is one of the best of all time, just as Marino is under stats. Randall Cunnigham had the greatest season a QB could dream of (3,000 pass yards, and 1,000 rushing yards) and that record has never ever been mentioned, but he also don't have a ring. As great as Cunnigham, Moon and Marino were, it's a shame they don't have rings, and even Jim Kelly (You gotta be tough to lose 4 SB's in a row)

    Then on the other hand Jim McMahon and Trent Dilfer have rings but I don't think either of those guys were ever as good as the team around them.

    I think there can be an argument for QB's as far as rings go, but I want to throw running backs out there. Some of the greatest Running backs of all time don't have rings. I say this because once upon a time, a running game was bigger than the passing game. Of course some of the best got their rings (Walter Payton and Emmitt Smith) but some of the best of all time like Earl Campbell and Barry Sanders, who single handedly carried their offense on their shoulders, didn't get one.
     
  24. GVN2FLY

    GVN2FLY Cheesehead

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    I agree with this. What do you expect from Saints fans? They are loyal to their QB like Packers fans are of Rodgers. I'm sure if Saints fans saw a the thread that said that the MVP raise is nowhere near close and Brees hasn't done much... etc They would think Packers fans are crazy.

    I find humor in it all!But I would I also take Brees over Brady and Manning.
     
  25. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I actually love Brees... for many reasons.
    #1- they said he was too short.
    #2- they said his arm wasn't strong enough. he couldn't throw the lazer out passes required to be a good NFL qb.
    #3- even the Chargers who HAD HIM, let him go.

    In all honesty, I for sure would not even think about trading our WRs for their WRs. I think ours are an A group and his a C at best. Graham is better than Finley though, and Sproles + Ingram + Pierre Thomas is better than what we have. Sproles can hurt us badly out of the backfield.

    That being said, Rodgers has about 1/3rd the playing experience in the NFL that Brees does, plus Brees played at least one extra year in big time college.

    I'll take Rodgers thank you very much.
     
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