Rookie Training Camp Love

out of these players, who are you most excited to see in the preseason?

  • Anderson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Spriggs

    Votes: 5 23.8%
  • Kuder

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Davis

    Votes: 7 33.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 9 42.9%

  • Total voters
    21
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HardRightEdge

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That Rollins would start on the perimeter would not surprise me, just as it was some months ago when I expressed that possibility.

Randall's natural position was and is free safety. It looks like that will have to wait until Hyde departs in FA. Randall could fill the nickel/safety swing role Hyde currently fills if Rollins beats him out for the perimeter. In the mean time, he'd be competing with Hyde for the nickel spot if it comes to that.
 

GreenBaySlacker

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Burnett, haha, sheilds, randall, rollins, hyde.............

How do we not play 6 d-backs?!?!

Maybe this question is why burnett was playing some ilb in the dime?
 
D

Deleted member 6794

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Randall could fill the nickel/safety swing role Hyde currently fills if Rollins beats him out for the perimeter. In the mean time, he'd be competing with Hyde for the nickel spot if it comes to that.

I don't think there's any chance Hyde will be the primary nickel cornerback this season. He might get even beat out by Gunter for the fourth CB in the dime.

Burnett, haha, sheilds, randall, rollins, hyde.............

How do we not play 6 d-backs?!?!

Because the Packers have to somehow stop the run as well.
 

GreenBaySlacker

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I don't think there's any chance Hyde will be the primary nickel cornerback this season. He might get even beat out by Gunter for the fourth CB in the dime.



Because the Packers have to somehow stop the run as well.
Then why do we run a pass defense 3/4 of the time? You want to claim speed and tackling is more important than having 3 dlinemen most the time... Then we play a dime with an undersized burnett playing ilb on a obvious passing down. AND NOW you are worried about stopping the run???

You just trying to be contradicting.
 
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Deleted member 6794

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Then why do we run a pass defense 3/4 of the time? You want to claim speed and tackling is more important than having 3 dlinemen most the time... Then we play a dime with an undersized burnett playing ilb on a obvious passing down. AND NOW you are worried about stopping the run???

You just trying to be contradicting.

The Packers line up in their nickel defense (five defensive backs) on most of the defensive snaps. That's because they're able to both defend the run and the pass in that formation. There's a reason why teams line up in their dime package (six DBs) on obvious passing downs only.
 
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Deleted member 6794

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It's not very encouraging to see Kenny Clark get taken to the ground on double teams playing NT in the following clips:

http://www.packers.com/media-center..._warfare/0d45378c-1d90-47ad-811c-23ef5ded1491

My take at the time of the draft is he's a 5/3 technique DE. The Packers may have to go with Guion at NT, not his best position, until Pennel returns, a guy who may be the most underrated player on this roster.

The Packers have lined up Clark at nose tackle during training camp so far though. FWIW Baranczyk doesn't share your concern about the rookie.

First-round pick Kenny Clark is looking like he’ll help the Packers immediately.

The nose tackle does two things that stand out: He keeps his pads low, and he uses his hands well.

A lot of talented defensive linemen get away with sloppy technique in college because they’re bigger and stronger than everyone they face. But the NFL exposes warts.

Jerel Worthy, a Packers second-round pick in 2012, is a perfect example. His main talent was getting a quick jump off the snap, and in college he was quicker and stronger and faster than almost all the offensive linemen he faced. But in the NFL, quarterbacks’ cadences kept him from anticipating the count, and he couldn’t physically dominate the blockers like he did in college. He’s now out of the NFL.

Clark, on the other hand, is good fundamentally along with being talented enough to be a first-round pick. He keeps his pads low, so in half-line run drills and team drills on Family Night you didn’t see him once get pushed out of position. He also kept his hands in tight, so a few times he was able to drive back the blocker two or three yards.


We’ll see as camp goes on and he gets work as a nickel pass rusher how he is getting off blocks and getting up field. But as a nose tackle against the run, he holds his gap well and sometimes gets some push.

It’s rare to see a guy that young (he turns 21 in October) who plays with good technique. And the Packers are going to need him after B.J. Raji’s surprise retirement in the offseason and Mike Pennel’s four-game suspension to start the season.
 
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HardRightEdge

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As far as the poll is concerned, I went with Spriggs because he represents a $7 - $8 mil cap question for 2017.

His pass blocking college tape reminded me of a somewhat smaller version of Nate Solder who had a rocky start to his career with balance issues. I look forward to what Spriggs can do in preseason.

After that, Martinez and Clark are the guys most likely to see the most snaps in the early games, and then going forward depending on how they do.
 

Pkrjones

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There are 3 NT's listed on the depth chart: Guion, Brian Price and Demetris Anderson.

Clark is listed 2nd behind Daniels as DT. Don't think there's any intention of playing Clark as a NT in base D, at least initially. If Clark & Daniels are inside on passing downs there won't be double-team drive blocking, anyway, the OL's will be setting for pass protection.
 
D

Deleted member 6794

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There are 3 NT's listed on the depth chart: Guion, Brian Price and Demetris Anderson.

Clark is listed 2nd behind Daniels as DT. Don't think there's any intention of playing Clark as a NT in base D, at least initially. If Clark & Daniels are inside on passing downs there won't be double-team drive blocking, anyway, the OL's will be setting for pass protection.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the team's unofficial depth chart a week into camp. The coaching staff has used Clark at nose tackle during practices so far.
 
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HardRightEdge

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The Packers have lined up Clark at nose tackle during training camp so far though. FWIW Baranczyk doesn't share your concern about the rookie.

First-round pick Kenny Clark is looking like he’ll help the Packers immediately.

The nose tackle does two things that stand out: He keeps his pads low, and he uses his hands well.

A lot of talented defensive linemen get away with sloppy technique in college because they’re bigger and stronger than everyone they face. But the NFL exposes warts.

Jerel Worthy, a Packers second-round pick in 2012, is a perfect example. His main talent was getting a quick jump off the snap, and in college he was quicker and stronger and faster than almost all the offensive linemen he faced. But in the NFL, quarterbacks’ cadences kept him from anticipating the count, and he couldn’t physically dominate the blockers like he did in college. He’s now out of the NFL.

Clark, on the other hand, is good fundamentally along with being talented enough to be a first-round pick. He keeps his pads low, so in half-line run drills and team drills on Family Night you didn’t see him once get pushed out of position. He also kept his hands in tight, so a few times he was able to drive back the blocker two or three yards.


We’ll see as camp goes on and he gets work as a nickel pass rusher how he is getting off blocks and getting up field. But as a nose tackle against the run, he holds his gap well and sometimes gets some push.

It’s rare to see a guy that young (he turns 21 in October) who plays with good technique. And the Packers are going to need him after B.J. Raji’s surprise retirement in the offseason and Mike Pennel’s four-game suspension to start the season.
First, this is the evaluation period. Guys are put in various positions to see what they can do. Picking a player is a speculation. There is an ascending progression of evaluation: position room, practice, padded practice, preseason against the opponent's second and third team, preseason against the opponent's first team and then, one would hope, regular season. In most cases you won't know what you've got, for this season anyway, until you get 3 or 4 games into the regular season. Sometimes a guy is surprisingly good or surprisingly bad for an earlier assessment, but not often.

If nothing else, the Packers need to come up with a backup NT for the first 4 games, which may partially account for this early work at the position.

We're only 3 or 4 padded practices into this thing, while veterans with known abilities are put to the side. Does anybody think Peppers not working with the first team in initial practices means he won't be starting? I don't think Guion needs any special work at NT; the job is not rocket science, he's a known quantity, and it saves on veteran wear and tear. If that tape is indicative of where Clark will be handling double teams by week 1, he should not being playing NT; Guion can be moved in with little or no prep. Clark is a bit undersized for the position to start with.

Second, I go by the evidence available to me not what somebody tells me I should see. This is the "Lake Wobegon" part of the year where "all men are strong and all children are above average". If Baranczyk did not see him get "pushed out of position" in "half-line run drills and team drills on Family Night" as his sole observation, then perhaps he should review those clips as a counterpoint.

Clark would not be the first D-Lineman with outstanding technique and strength that simply does not translate to NT. I look forward to seeing him in preseason. As it stands, those clips should temper one's early enthusiasm for Clark as a NT.
 
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Deleted member 6794

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Second, I go by the evidence available to me not what somebody tells me I should see. This is the "Lake Wobegon" part of the year where "all men are strong and all children are above average". If Baranczyk did not see him get "pushed out of position" in "half-line run drills and team drills on Family Night" as his sole observation, then perhaps he should review those clips as a counterpoint.

Clark would not be the first D-Lineman with outstanding technique and strength that simply does not translate to NT. I look forward to seeing him in preseason. As it stands, those clips should temper one's early enthusiasm.

I'm quite sure Baranczyk has watched Clark for more than the two snaps that are available in the video. While he undoubtly looks bad in those reps I'd rather trust Baranczyk's evaluation.
 
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HardRightEdge

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I'm quite sure Baranczyk has watched Clark for more than the two snaps that are available in the video. While he undoubtly looks bad in those reps I'd rather trust Baranczyk's evaluation.
I'll stick with "tempered enthusiasm", having no vested interest in rosy scenarios.
 
H

HardRightEdge

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So, fence-sitting, no real opinion.
You want some firm opinion at a juncture where none is possible, or shall I say justifiably possible.

You saw my tempered opinion. I'm not enthusiastic about Clark as a NT based on what I've seen, and those clips reinforce my opinion from his college tape. My tempered enthusiasm pertains more to his potential as a DE though I'm willing to briefly suspend judgement on his NT play. By week 5 it will be moot. Pennel is your NT.

It might occur to you that unlike guys who are paid to comment and have an interest in access and fan appeal might suspend negative opinions at this juncture at the risk of being pegged a spoilsport, or unlike those guys who need to make choices now for their fantasy league, a reasonable approach is to wait until something happens that can be a basis for firm judgments, which starts with the first preseason game.

If nothing else, I highlighted some clips where Clark got blown 5 yards off the line and driven into the ground. That dog won't hunt, nor will marginal improvement. At least I provided you with a negative to consider and something to watch for as we move forward (I will revisit this topic in the preseason), as opposed to some new beat writer who will want to ingratiate himself to the fans and coaches by writing unvarnished positives.

Rest assured, when I see a guy, for example, overrunning plays, falling down in the hole and blowing coverage, I'll be sure to tell you, just as I did with Nate Palmer last season. Or you can listen to McGinn tell you he was a marked improvement over the previous "nonentities" like Barrington. Or just use your own eyes if you prefer.
 
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PikeBadger

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You want some firm opinion at a juncture where none is possible, or shall I say justifiably possible.

I totally agree.

However that doesn't stop some from making definitive statements and judgments based on what they saw last year.
 
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HardRightEdge

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I totally agree.

However that doesn't stop some from making definitive statements and judgments based on what they saw last year.
Of course. Clark, the particular topic of this discussion, played college ball last season. The NFL is a whole different ball of wax.

Reporters tend to be negative at this juncture when there's an established whipping boy where criticisms mixed in with any positives are not likely to be particularly surprising or offensive. Janis or Adams would be a couple of examples.
 
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Deleted member 6794

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At least I provided you with a negative to consider and something to watch for as we move forward (I will revisit this topic in the preseason), as opposed to some new beat writer who will want to ingratiate himself to the fans and coaches by writing unvarnished positives.

Baranczyk has been analyzing game tape for the Press Gazette for several years and has been doing mostly a good job, pointing out negative performances as well.

BTW I would prefer Clark to play defensive end as well but as of right now it seems the team plans on using him at nose tackle.
 
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