Rodgers is NOT the problem

TJV

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It all starts at the top. They looked sloppy every single game, and nobody was on the same page. Rodgers wasn't himself, but every other position was equally bad, if not worse. Unless we can resuscitate the 2010 defense, we need a better offensive mind who can do simple things like adjust his offense to be able to beat man coverage. I've never seen such stubborn play calling as I have this year.
It's starts at the top but players bear some responsibility too. And were they sloppy early in the season? I agree about McCarthy not adjusting routes to beat man coverage but if you are evaluating his offensive mind you have to look how productive his offenses have been, don't you?
Context. That's what it is all about. ... Unbelievable Odds. Who do you want throwing the rock?
This doesn't contradict anything I and others posted.

BTW, to quote another's post, click on the green "Reply" link in the bottom right corner of that post.
 

Patriotplayer90

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Pre-dog fight Michael Vick? Brett Favre (see bomb to Sharpe vs Detroit) Fran Tarkenton? Vikings had someone else in that era that could really launch the ball but the name escapes me.
Found it-- 2nd play
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I know what you are saying-other QBs have the arm strength to get it to the end zone. That is a given. And that's an excellent pass from Favre, but Rodgers wasn't just scrambling, he was running for his life to avoid getting sacked. He gave himself just enough time to set his feet and make the throw before getting laid out. That's the impressive part of it. Many QBs could throw the ball that far, but not deliver that good of a pass under that much duress.
 

Half Empty

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Nobody else on the planet could have made that last throw against the Cardinals. Dan Marino in his prime is the only other. Does anybody want to debate that?

Sure, but since there's no way to know, probably not worth the effort.
 

Patriotplayer90

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It's starts at the top but players bear some responsibility too. And were they sloppy early in the season? I agree about McCarthy not adjusting routes to beat man coverage but if you are evaluating his offensive mind you have to look how productive his offenses have been, don't you? This doesn't contradict anything I and others posted.

BTW, to quote another's post, click on the green "Reply" link in the bottom right corner of that post.
Being productive against average defenses isn't a good way to evaluate a coach. They have been ineffective against great defenses for as long as I can remember. It just so happened that every defense could look great this year by shutting down the receivers and putting Rodgers under pressure and taking away the run. It is more difficult with Jordy, but still not a tough task for teams with Sherman, Peterson, Norman-I.E., the biggest competitors in the NFC.
 

adambr2

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As much as the divisional round hurt,
given that Rodgers had a poor year by his standards, Lacy as well, no one on offense stepped up at all, and we were without Nelson all season, maybe it's a minor miracle that we were 1 play from the NFC Championship game this year.
 
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RRyder

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Being productive against average defenses isn't a good way to evaluate a coach. They have been ineffective against great defenses for as long as I can remember. It just so happened that every defense could look great this year by shutting down the receivers and putting Rodgers under pressure and taking away the run. It is more difficult with Jordy, but still not a tough task for teams with Sherman, Peterson, Norman-I.E., the biggest competitors in the NFC.

I'd argue that most every good offense feasts on average to below average defense the same as every good defense feasts on a average to below average offense.

This was a rough year for our offense no doubt but when people like to point out how we struggle against top Ds in years past I'd like to point out that the PPG that we put up in those game is generally higher than that top D gives up on average.

Good units feast on average ones and then when two good units meet the average for each meet closer to the middle but it's not like we've constantly been shut out by top Ds. In fact you could argue it's just the percentages evening out as those teams defensive numbers get worse after facing us also
 

PackerDNA

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It's a shame that some of you never got to see Starr play, especially in crunch-time. At least you have youth in your favor. Starr simply delivered in the big ones. Others have wilted in them. Repeatedly. He's my GOAT.

Starr and Unitas were magnificent under pressure.
 

CashInFist

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It's starts at the top but players bear some responsibility too. And were they sloppy early in the season? I agree about McCarthy not adjusting routes to beat man coverage but if you are evaluating his offensive mind you have to look how productive his offenses have been, don't you? This doesn't contradict anything I and others posted.

BTW, to quote another's post, click on the green "Reply" link in the bottom right corner of that post.
Got it thanks. lol
 

CashInFist

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I know what you are saying-other QBs have the arm strength to get it to the end zone. That is a given. And that's an excellent pass from Favre, but Rodgers wasn't just scrambling, he was running for his life to avoid getting sacked. He gave himself just enough time to set his feet and make the throw before getting laid out. That's the impressive part of it. Many QBs could throw the ball that far, but not deliver that good of a pass under that much duress.
That's exactly what I am saying..
 

CashInFist

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It's a shame that some of you never got to see Starr play, especially in crunch-time. At least you have youth in your favor. Starr simply delivered in the big ones. Others have wilted in them. Repeatedly. He's my GOAT.
I would have liked to have seen Starr play. Heard a lot of great stories.
 

CashInFist

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I was going to FIRE the NFL too, until I saw that throw by Aaron Rodgers. I mean seriously guys, it is the best throw in NFL history. My son and I just watched it over again. That throw owns me lol.
 

pacmaniac

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A great throw for sure, but lucky as heck it was caught. I've watched that replay tons of times, and the ball was about to go through Janis's hands, but Peterson's hand pushed the ball back into Janis's hands.
 

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A-Rod mentioned finding his mojo after the Washington game, but I'm hoping he really does get it back. Really, he's one year removed from MVP, and I know he fell off the cliff this last year, there are many factors that went into his season. Some of this we can see watching the game, and others we can't (what happens behind closed doors), I can only speculate as it happens in every organization, whether it is on the field or in the office).

I DVR all the games, and then kill the previous week's game. The exceptions, I always save the last season's game (playoff) for each year to reflect on the good/bad, and delete it when the new season starts. However, there is one other game, and that is the 2010 Atlanta Playoff game when he's in a "clinic" form, which I watch this game about 5-6 times a year (it is the blue print for the core team: Coach MM, A-Rod, Dom Capers). If you have the ability to watch that game, and think back about what happened over this past year, or even reflect back to his last MVP year, and I'll let you come up with what is missing from A-Rod, but it is crystal clear to me!

IMO:
I feel mentally he's fallen off, and what is driving his situation I do not know why? Is/was it the lack of confidence in the WR's lack of fall off because Jordy went on IR in preseason? Unlike college and other sports, if a team discovers a problem, week after week, they'll keep picking at that scab, until the coaches/players can resolve it. It seemed like San Diego exposed it, Denver exploited it, and everyone else copied it. It took until the Washington game to slow down the bleeding, and the Card's playoff game. I was surprised after Cobb going down, how Abby/Janis were able to stay in the game with A-Rod. Even though it was a lost, I was pleased with the up arrow after the last two games. I salute the entire coaching staff and players for giving it their ALL in both games!

From the last Coach MM Show, Coach MM says, "He's taking back the play calling and wants to return the team back to 2006-2007-2008 offensive philosophy. I'm not sure if this is meant to re-focus A-Rod, and the rest of the team, or is this meant for something else (fundamentals)? I wish I had more insight into what he means on his comments.

Here's what I think physically has fallen off (A-Rod's game--from watching):
1) Long ball (stretch the field). I've never seen so many overthrown balls, and misses. Jordy and him never missed, and his long ball from the past was lightening accurate. This is not because Jordy was gone. Exception: Hail Mary's.
2) Back-shoulder throw. Old days, this was just ridiculous on him throwing these (Atlanta clinic). As stated before, perfect offense will beat perfect defense every time. This last year for the most part went away (except a few catches with JJ).
3) Confidence in his arm. It was murderous to watch him pass on throwing the ball. He used to throw on timing, and hit receivers on the go. Whatever it is/was, basically destroyed his timing, and it was a pity to watch him struggle. I'm not sure if it was from the jam on WR's at the line, or his lack of trust in the receivers to get open or protect the ball (i.e., that is fear of interception).

What we CAN'T see (please take w/ grain of salt--this comes from my years of Military leadership and executive management/leadership to see these things. Note, I'm not in the locker room, but this is my perspective from post game interviews, and weekly interviews over the years and reading the tea leaves).

1) Passion for the game. I'm just not picking up the vibes that Favre, or Tom Brady carry with the LOVE of the game. I know he's off the chart in smarts, and I'm not sure if he doesn't need it, which is why he doesn't show it. However, the young players need it (reinforcement), and when the chips fall, it is the first thing that jumps out at me in why the tean crumbles, and the young players need his leadership to get them back up!
2) Dissent to coaching staff. He respects the coaches on their roles, and talks the party-line, but there is more in what is not being said, that tells me he has it all figured out (meaning it doesn't take it to heart what leadership says something he doesn't like...fighter pilot rules: better to execute a bad plan, then dissent on a good plan). Again, because he is off the charts in football smarts (and other), this is passed on to the other teammates he's above them. I hope Coach MM, and the next guy(s) who step in/up can resolve it. I wish there was someone who can challenge him (like Belichick would), and put him in his place.
3) Tier of Hierarchy player structure (cliché). This is a major down factor for him. There is a difference between expecting perfection from his players, and getting excellence. vs. you're not worthy to look at me. The top line veterans are on Tier 1 (Kuhn, Sitton, Bulaga, Jordy, Clay Matthews, Peppers, etc.), Tier 2 Players (who do their jobs well, but are not in the elite group), and then there is the new rookies (or 2nd year guys) who are divided into those who are smart and play smart, and those who are talented, but haven't put it together. It comes across that those players are not worthy to walk in the same hallway with him. First of all, Belichick would not let Tom Brady get that way, and Tom Brady wouldn't carry that persona that puts these barriers between him and his teammates (why TB gets the most out of his young receivers). A good example of this is the Janis story the past two years (not sure if that is coaching or A-Rod telling leadership he's not ready). Great leaders find a way to make everyone feel they bring value at all levels, and make lower players play better than they are. He is a leader and he needs to find ways to be "humble-," and bring excellence in those other guys on the bottom and not make everyone feel he's already carved out of Bronze, and is greeting everyone that walks into Lambeau Field before he's done playing...those days will come (don't need to walk that talk, now).

A-Rod is the BEST dam QB that will play the game from pure talent and smarts! There will never be a pure passer with all the football smarts, scramble ability, and have the means to make it happen. I love Raji during the Atlanta game on the side line calling out, "Houdini" during the clinic A-Rod played. I want that A-Rod back, the one that was HUNGRY and carried the team as equals! It was a TEAM victory at all levels.

Honestly, I hope with MM's going back to grass-roots of his Head Coaching days (2006-2008), he'll find a way to reset the team and reel him back in. MM and the Offensive coaches have to find a way, or this team will die in the playoffs every year because all the COGS and wheels have to be firing in sync to win it all!

In TT/MM we TRUST (o-7)!
Speedy

P.S. I hate NE and Brady, but I respect the hell out of them! Sun-Tzu (no your enemy better...)
 

CashInFist

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A great throw for sure, but lucky as heck it was caught. I've watched that replay tons of times, and the ball was about to go through Janis's hands, but Peterson's hand pushed the ball back into Janis's hands.
I said in a Dolphins thread that it is funny how the elite QB's seem to get "Lucky" all the time. Must carry a rabbit's foot on their keychains. LOL

That was over the Lions throw they all said what luck, to get them to the playoffs ya know. Then we saw the last throw he made. Legend, I'm telling you. LOL
 

CashInFist

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I am a die hard Packer fan but some of these comments are ridiculous imo. Rodgers is not the greatest QB of all time. While that throw was amazing; it is not those throws that win championships. It is what happens during the entire game, especially in the whole 4th quarter. Maybe he will end up being the greatest but McCarthy will need to call better games and get a better O line. One that can protect him and run block.

Those are EXACTLY the kind of throws than CAN win Championships, if you have to have it.
 

Packer Fan in SD

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Huge Rodgers fan, but he was off this year. So many overthrows and one hoppers. I have never seen that before. He gets some blame.
 

CashInFist

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Huge Rodgers fan, but he was off this year. So many overthrows and one hoppers. I have never seen that before. He gets some blame.
All QB's have off years, but the great ones make the throws most frequently against the most adverse scenarios. IDK how else to explain it, and sure I may be wrong, but in my mind I know for 100% fact that I am not wrong. Dan Marino and Aaron Rodgers. The 2 best QB's to ever play the game. And I mean BALL. In your face ball. That's how they roll.
 

Half Empty

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All QB's have off years, but the great ones make the throws most frequently against the most adverse scenarios. IDK how else to explain it, and sure I may be wrong, but in my mind I know for 100% fact that I am not wrong. Dan Marino and Aaron Rodgers. The 2 best QB's to ever play the game. And I mean BALL. In your face ball. That's how they roll.

I'm going to see if I can do a poll on the first contention you had (that only Rodgers and Marino could have that throw in the Cardinals game), but before I go there, need to know if the above contends the same thing (pure physical ability) or really that they're the two best QBs ever. Please advise.
 

gopkrs

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I think that throw was so amazing because Rodgers was off balance at the time. But the first one to Janis on the 50 or so...that throw was incredible.
 

CashInFist

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I think that throw was so amazing because Rodgers was off balance at the time. But the first one to Janis on the 50 or so...that throw was incredible.
It was going LEFT and falling backwards 61 yards on a frozen rope up high under ALL of those conditions. It takes a VERY special QB to accomplish that. I mean the defender was RIGHT THERE in Aaron Rodgers' teeth, and he effing delivered. So epic man.
 
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