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Rip on TT and MM in here

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by wischeez, Oct 6, 2008.

  1. Packerfanforever

    Packerfanforever Cheesehead

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    As long as The Chronic Masturbater (TT) is in charge, we will continue to draft 3rd string Qb's in the second round, cornerbacks who cant make it through the season, and a fat waste of a defensive linemen who's been injured since high school.... We will also hear about trains, and Ted will continue to ask how big players eyes get during games....
     
  2. doughsellz

    doughsellz Cheesehead

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    You've done a fine job of countering my views, especially my choice(s) of TT's replacement. If you're taking my directness personally that's not my fault. It's not intended to be an attack. It's just a forum here & we're agreeing to disagree.

    Everyone has gotten a little off topic in different threads. If the mods find it out of line they step in & clean it up. We're all fans here, some a little longer than others I'm guessing. At the end of the day we all want the same thing. Go Pack GO!!!

    Peace, my friend.
     
  3. Lare

    Lare Cheesehead

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    I'm pretty pleased with TT's performance this offseason.


    Another nail in the coffin.


    Tick, tick, tick, tick...............
     
  4. UncleMeat

    UncleMeat Cheesehead

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    So, my car was hit while parked and needed to go in for a week worth of repairs... during which time I've been driving a loaner and have had to listen to local radio. I found the Milwaukee AM sports stations and have been subjected to a solid week of people screaming about TT not going after free agents.

    I won't get into that too much, but do we really expect Thompson, after 4 years, to go get a guy like Haynesworth? If we give a free agent a deal with $20m, $30m or even $40m in bonuses, is that one signing worth losing possibly Kampman and Jennings next year? Without all the numbers in front of me, I can't say why we don't have more cap money than we do, but the point is that there are limited financial resources and our team is not one player away from winning a Super Bowl. Thus, that one player is not worth the long term sacrifice.

    That said, the common defense to not splurging on free agency is that it is smarter to build via the draft. I mostly agree with this and most quality teams have a strong foundation of drafted players along with a few key veteran signings. It's a proven method.

    Which leads me to my question (finally)... how exactly is TT "building" via the draft? Looking at his first two drafts with the Packers, he took 23 players in 2 years. With Mike Montgomery out as a free agent, 12 of those 23 players are currently not with the team!!! Over a 50% fail rate on the draft. I'm not saying he has to find stars in the 6th round, but at least find guys in the first 5 rounds who can still make the team 3-4 years later. Unless Harrell can turn his young career around, the '07 Packer draft class is looking like 2-3 solid players, a few departed names and several players who are career backups. It looks like the only starter from that group is the kicker. It's early, but Pat Lee looks like he has the most promise to be a starter from the '08 group. Finley could break in at tight end in a couple years, but right now he is definitely a project like many other players Thompson picks.

    Whether Thompson suddenly changes philosophy or we get someone new in a couple years, we need to go away from drafting on potential alone. Good teams pick players who have talent and who have the skillsets that fit the dynamic they have built in the organization. The Packers? We just have a bunch of guys... they don't really have much of anything in common other than the color of their uniforms.
     
  5. yooperfan

    yooperfan Cheesehead

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    We went 6-10 last year with 4 years of teddys draftees.
    We are 31 and 33 under 4 years of teddy at the helm.
    Teddy is sitting on his thumb as we lose players and we are gaining nothing.
    That is all!
     
  6. Lare

    Lare Cheesehead

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    But you do have to agree, he is consistent!
     
  7. A. Rodgers

    A. Rodgers Cheesehead

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    yes, but you have to be BETTER than consistant for a championship or two...
     
  8. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    TT built a team that was one play away from the SB in 2007. Some folks say the only reason we were in the conference championship game was because of Brett. If it was all Brett how come it took us a decade to get back to that game with Brett in the line up all those years inbetween? As great as Brett was he couldn't do it alone. I remember Brett saying in either 06 or 07 that that team had more talent than any team he'd been around in while. Did we miss his leadership in 08? Sure. You can't replace his experience overnight. But his best days were behind him. He faded down the stretch last season. If we can turn our defense around this coming season I think we have an offense that can be pretty darn good. If you get in the playoffs anything can happen. Just ask the Cardinals.
     
  9. doughsellz

    doughsellz Cheesehead

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    On offense in '07 Jennings & Grant were the best performers aside from #4. The line was Wells, Clifton, Tauscher, Colledge & Spitz. To say that was built by TT isn't accurate but I'll give you that one because they couldn't have gotten there without those guys.

    On defense the best performers were Kampman, Jenkins, Barnett, Williams, Jolly, Pickett, Woodson & Harris. Bigby & Collins got it going later in the season as well.

    My point is there were far too many pre-TT players in '07 to say that it was built by TT. You give far more credit than is due.
     
  10. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I can count at least 4 on that list that if Ted didnt agree to re-sign they would have been gone.

    And all 4 were MS guys
     
  11. Lare

    Lare Cheesehead

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    I agree, we've been just as successful since TT got here as we were before he got here. And we've been just as successful without Brett Favre as we were with him.


    Oh wait.........
     
  12. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    How many championship teams did Sherman have agian?
     
  13. slimdursty

    slimdursty Cheesehead

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    I am shocked that TT missed out on opportunity to sign a veteran FA d lineman or linebacker. IMO TT is too obsessed about building through the draft. the team needs some veterans to turn to when the times get tough
     
  14. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    So, who should TT have signed? Haynesworth? At those prices for a headcase like that who only produces when his contract is up? No thanks. Canty? That guy had his heart set on NY. He never even entertained the notion of visiting any other team but the Gmen. He wouldn't come to GB for a face to face without TT or McKensie offering him a contract. What GM is gonna do that without even looking at the player in the eye first? That Igor guy from SD? Why did the Bolts let a young player who plays on the coveted D line just walk? I heard he felt slighted by SD cuz he heard they weren't gonna offer him mega millions so he went thru the motions and eventually got benched. We don't need players like this no matter how thin our D line is. Yes, FA is a place to add players but this isn't the early 90's when Wolf was our GM. Teams don't let good players hit the open market these days, they slap franchise tags on them like Carolina did with Peppers making it cost a team dearly to sign him.
     
  15. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Who should he have signed in your opinion
     
  16. Lare

    Lare Cheesehead

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    There were over 500 players available at the start of free agency this year, there are many more that have been released since and literally thousands who could be had through trades.

    Sure, there were some who were out of reach, but I find it hard to believe there isn't more than one who could have been brought in for reasonable value that could improve the talent level of a 6-10 team.

    As my grandpa used to say "You've got to want to". And for whatever reason, when it comes to using all the tools at his disposal to improve this team TT doesn't want to. Either that or he can't.
     
  17. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Well then you should have an idea of who you wanted? Unless you just are one of those people that want him to sign anyone???

    You are aware that the Packers did sign more than one free agent??????????

    Free agents do include their own players ya know
     
  18. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Thousands that are for trade? Give me a break. Just because you can trade say Greg Jennings for 60% of the players in the NFL, doesn't mean its a viable trade.

    How about you throw some REALISTIC numbers out there? Care to give that a shot?
     
  19. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    Besides Haynesworth and Canty there aren't a lot of real impact players out there in FA that are any better than what we already have on our roster. I'd much rather TT sign our OWN guys - and we have a slew of them coming up in 2010 - than overpay some other team's cast-offs.
     
  20. ksios

    ksios Cheesehead

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    Longtime here is my list of who the Packers should have looked hard at....

    Bart Scott, Samari Rolle, Jim Leonhard,Albert Haynesworth, Terrell Suggs( although he has a franchise tag and maybe overpriced). How's that for a list of people who would help the team. I'm sure there are a couple more that I missed, but these are all people I would have taken. Remember, everyone has been saying that it was because of our defense caused us to lose games (some because of injury). We had plenty of room under the cap to sign one or more of these "impact" players. Nobody should argue that this list of players would not improve the Packer defense, a defense that many said caused us to be 6-10. I do believe that we should sign as many of our own guys on offense. The only exception would be offensive line. I think we need to look to the draft to improve on the age of our linemen. I think our guys are good, but some are getting older and we should start grooming for the next line to come in.

    GO PACK!!!!!
     
  21. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    ksios, maybe TT did but felt they weren't that much better than what we already had. Jim Leonhard would have been a fun sentimental favorite for us to add but Suggs and Haynesworth were overpriced. Oh well, it will be interesting to see who TT picks in the draft and picks off the waiver wire after the draft!
     
  22. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Sorry, probably I'm being an ahole in this, but Suggs and Haynesworth weren't overpriced. They're dominant players that demands gameplan and even then can change a game. They were too expensive, but not overpriced.... Not getting them wasn't a mistake, it is the way TT handles business. You can criticize his philosofy, but it was not a mistake. The deal that I thought was a mistake was not getting Olshansky, 4years $16M for a 26 years old that knows the system and would be an imediate starter is a bargain. BUT maybe it would demand a raise on another player, Cullen Jenkins, that got the same 4year, $16M when he re-signed. A players that's better than Olshansky. I think it was a mistake, because it's a GM's job to deal with players contracts and cap management while upgrading your team...
     
  23. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    But didn't you wonder why SD would let a guy like Olshansky just walk? Young defensive linemen are coveted so it is puzzling why he wasn't resigned by SD. To me that is a red flag so maybe it wasn't a mistake. We'll never know for sure...
     
  24. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    okay great!!!

    Now, how do you get all those guys and still lock up jennings, collins etc?

    Look I am frustrated as hell that once again no one was signed that l could help out the D-L right away..

    But all I know is that I am not in the building and not in meetings when this stuff is talked about

    There has to be a solid reason the Packers dont go after big time free agents other then Ted's ego is to big ..
     
  25. ksios

    ksios Cheesehead

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    Longtime, I agree with the need to make sure we sign our players, but if I'm not mistaken, we had and still have plenty of room under the cap. so the argument that we wouldn't be able to sign our players doesn't work. Besides it would be a mistake to think you could sign ALL those players, you had asked somebody to list players of free agents that could help the team. Try and find one of those players that wouldn't have helped the team. EVERY ONE of those players are impact players who were or are free agents. sign ONE just one to make our defense better. We all know that the offense is almost second to none, we need help on the defense. One or two would have helped. Just out of curiosity sake, do you know where I can find a list of next years Packer free agents? It would be interesting to see the list, maybe if alot of the Packers are due, it could cost a few bucks. Maybe TT has a plan,(I doubt it IMO). I also agree that no fan is in the meetings where this is discussed. I think that would be an interesting meeting. My only hope is that you ARE right and there is a solid reason for not signing a impact player other than TT's big ego, it would be very scary for it to be his ego.
     

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