Packers and Kenny Clark agree to massive 4 year contract

[RRyder]

The Packers could have any player in the league if they really wanted. However its an extremely silly argument to make. As an example Its really just a matter of how many draft picks you want to give up and/or how many players get cut to fit him under the cap and Patrick Mahomes or Lamar Jackson could be Packers tommorow.

Ignoring that theres additional context (like oh say it costing the next 10 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks to make that happen) over how a player is valued and saying "if they really want to have him they can." is just asinine

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yeah, and we're waiting to see what Clarks contract does to the 2021 Packer cap. The Packers were already over that $175 mil figure with the top 51 players under contract for 2021 ($183 mil) even before Clark's addition to that number which should be quite substantial.

I'm quite confident in saying that Clark will count $22 million towards the cap over the next two seasons. Taking a look at the cap situation in 2021 it doesn't make a difference how that's split up.

As I said in the beginning, teams can find ways to sign guys they want to keep. That's ALL I said. Ppl were saying that the cap would prevent re-signing multiple guys but the cap won't stop that. If the Packers value those guys at market rates they can find ways to keep them. Just pointing out that blaming the cap on losing players is a convenient way to ignore GM choices.

Once again, that's true when talking about a single player. The salary cap definitely prevents teams to sign all of the players they want to keep though.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I'm quite confident in saying that Clark will count $22 million towards the cap over the next two seasons. Taking a look at the cap situation in 2021 it doesn't make a difference how that's split up.

It does matter if, as some would have it, the carryover cap currently sitting on the books thanks to a heavily backloaded Clark contract (pending details) gets spent this year.

What would Griffen cost, or Antonio Brown for half the season, or the next guy with a name that makes the news. Just wait for the chatter around the trading deadline if the Packers are in the hunt. Or how about extending Jones who's cap cost this year would have to go up by a few mil?

You can sign anybody, doncha know, if you want to. It's just a matter of "manipulation" if you don't look at the other 29 spots you need to field a good team.

 

[PikeBadger]

My personal opinion is that Bakhtiari’s extension is already being worked on. I would think Jones replacement would be easier than an All-Pro left tackle. Remains to be seen whether Dillon can be an effective #1 RB in 2021. May have to be RB by committee. I find it unlikely that King will be here in 2021. You almost have to go on faith that you can develop an effective #2 cornerback by then given our cap situation. We don’t appear to have anyone on the roster that realistically could be expected to perform close to Bakhtiari’s level and you certainly can’t expect even a 1st round LT pick to do so.

We really, really need for 5-6 young first contract guys to make big jumps this year.

 

[HardRightEdge]

We really, really need for 5-6 young first contract guys to make big jumps this year.

I kinda doubt you'll see that many but the concept is spot on. Good players cheap make all the difference.

If they can get 60-70% snaps out of Gary, Burks and Sullivan, decent snaps and not just playing by default, that would go a long way to keeping points off the board. I don't think we can expect an explosive offense; playing to last years level would be a pleasant surprise in my book.

 

[PikeBadger]

I kinda doubt you'll see that many but the concept is spot on. Good players cheap make all the difference.

If they can get 60-70% snaps out of Gary, Burks and Sullivan, decent snaps and not just playing by default, that would go a long way to keeping points off the board. I don't think we can expect an explosive offense; playing to last years level would be a pleasant surprise in my book.

Those were 3 I was thinking of but I was thinking one of Jackson/Sullivan. On offense, Scantling/St. Brown/Kumerow/Lazard, Tonyan/Sternberger, one of the young tackles.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't think we can expect an explosive offense; playing to last years level would be a pleasant surprise in my book.

The Packers finished in only 15th in scoring last season, scoring exact the same amount of points as during McCarthy's last year. I'm confident the offense can at least perform up to that level in 2020.

 

[Mondio]

Our offense seemed better at making a big play here or there to make a difference, but overall they weren’t really any better than a year prior. Much of the improvement in the overall record was in the play of the defense. They played much better situational football when it mattered last year than prior.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Our offense seemed better at making a big play here or there to make a difference, but overall they weren’t really any better than a year prior. Much of the improvement in the overall record was in the play of the defense. They played much better situational football when it mattered last year than prior.

I've mentioned this on numerous occasions: the offense and defense were both outstanding in the red zone. Getting 7 instead of 3 in the short field and allowing 3 instead of 7 at the opposite end was a key factor in that 13-3 record; winning those close games was not done with mirrors. Plus in the red zone and plus in the turnover differential, while not giving up an excess of long plays takes you a long way toward winning.

I read a study recently showing a poor history of good red zone teams repeating that performance the following year. Perhaps that's a function of teams with success going back to the same well while opponents have developed answers from tape study in the off season. Dunno. Anyway, it will be worth watching early on if the Packers are repeating those red zone performances that have historically been hard to repeat.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Our offense seemed better at making a big play here or there to make a difference, but overall they weren’t really any better than a year prior. Much of the improvement in the overall record was in the play of the defense. They played much better situational football when it mattered last year than prior.

As mentioned above the offense didn't improve in 2019 over McCarthy's last season as head coach. Therefore I'm confident there's room for improvement.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

As mentioned above the offense didn't improve in 2019 over McCarthy's last season as head coach. Therefore I'm confident there's room for improvement.

Most teams improve on a coach's second year, so ppl should expect the Packers offense to be better. However, the Packers offense is basically entirely reliant on Adams not missing time and Jones also staying; Packers are kinda thin on offense.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Most teams improve on a coach's second year, so ppl should expect the Packers offense to be better. However, the Packers offense is basically entirely reliant on Adams not missing time and Jones also staying; Packers are kinda thin on offense.

I fail to understand why Jones would not be staying for 2020.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I fail to understand why Jones would not be staying for 2020.

Because I left out the word "healthy" after "staying".

 

[Deleted member 6794]

However, the Packers offense is basically entirely reliant on Adams not missing time and Jones also staying; Packers are kinda thin on offense.

If Adams misses significant time because of an injury the Packers pass offense is screwed. Of course gary will blame it on Rodgers for not turning the other JAGs into All-Pros.

 

[swhitset]

When people start saying things like "The cap is only a guideline" and "We can afford to sign anyone we really want to. No excuse not to make it happen" i can't help but think they've also said in their life " Well im a lil tight on cash right now but want a new couch. That payday advance loan sounds like its a genius idea"

But they probably don’t stop at the couch .... might as well go to one of those rent to own stores and buy the whole living room set. Lol

 

[PikeBadger]

If Adams misses significant time because of an injury the Packers pass offense is screwed. Of course gary will blame it on Rodgers for not turning the other JAGs into All-Pros.

It’s just about impossible to stockpile #1 WR’s and still be good at other important positions. The injury to great players problem applies to all 32 teams. Let’s not pretend the sky is falling and this is a problem unique to the Packers.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

It’s just about impossible to stockpile #1 WR’s and still be good at other important positions. The injury to great players problem applies to all 32 teams. Let’s not pretend the sky is falling and this is a problem unique to the Packers.

The issue isn't "stockpiling" #1's, it's the fact that the Packers have one #1 and have stockpiled #3s and #4s. Let's not pretend the Packers have anything CLOSE to a league average receiving corps.

 

[PikeBadger]

The issue isn't "stockpiling" #1's, it's the fact that the Packers have one #1 and have stockpiled #3s and #4s. Let's not pretend the Packers have anything CLOSE to a league average receiving corps.

They may this season. We’ll have to wait and see how Lazard, St. Brown and Scantling perform, as well as including guys like Tonyan, Sternberger and Jones and how they are used in the passing game. We may end up having an above average receiving corps.

 

[sschind]

They may this season. We’ll have to wait and see how Lazard, St. Brown and Scantling perform, as well as including guys like Tonyan, Sternberger and Jones and how they are used in the passing game. We may end up having an above average receiving corps.

Maybe, but again the same could be said for any team and their weaknesses. If the backups step up the weakness may not be as weak as we thought. It still doesn't change the fact that at this point our WRs are a weakness. It's fine to be optimistic but denial doesn't change the fact.

It’s just about impossible to stockpile #1 WR’s and still be good at other important positions. The injury to great players problem applies to all 32 teams. Let’s not pretend the sky is falling and this is a problem unique to the Packers.

At the same time just because it applies to all 32 teams doesn't make it any less of an issue for the Packers. Every team has weaknesses but that doesn't make your team's weaknesses any less weak.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

They may this season. We’ll have to wait and see how Lazard, St. Brown and Scantling perform, as well as including guys like Tonyan, Sternberger and Jones and how they are used in the passing game. We may end up having an above average receiving corps.

Yes, they might. That will require some abnormally strong growth from young and unproven players though.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It’s just about impossible to stockpile #1 WR’s and still be good at other important positions. The injury to great players problem applies to all 32 teams. Let’s not pretend the sky is falling and this is a problem unique to the Packers.

Nobody is suggesting the Packers should stockpile #1 receivers but it would be important to have a decent #2 as well as better talent at tight end. With the team currently having neither of it they would be in huge troubles if Adams goes down.

They may this season. We’ll have to wait and see how Lazard, St. Brown and Scantling perform, as well as including guys like Tonyan, Sternberger and Jones and how they are used in the passing game. We may end up having an above average receiving corps.

That's wishful thinking at best. None of the guys you mentioned have shown anything to justify being that optimistic about the group as a whole.

 

[Mondio]

I think there's plenty of reason to be optimistic. St. Brown, Tonyan, Sternberger all have the physical attributes to be really pretty good. Super stars? I don't know, but pretty good pass catchers in the NFL? why not? We've hardly gotten to see any of them. St. Brown was injured. Tonyan was injured, Sternberger was injured. Rookie WR's don't often light it up, St. Brown showed some decent stuff. Nothing spectacular, but still decent enough. Tonyan made a great play in Dallas and then was injured. I think he played much of the year because we needed TE's and could grit it out. But he's plenty athletic enough to be a 30 catch and 500 yard TE. Sure he may have other parts missing. he wasn't a high draft pick, he needed time and maybe he never gets it. But the athleticism to work with was pretty obvious i thought.

I don't see why someone can't have optimism on a 3rd round draft pick that basically had a red shirt (injury) rookie year. They obviously thought highly of him. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that 1 or 2 of those guys is a pretty solid player for us this year.

 

[PikeBadger]

I think there's plenty of reason to be optimistic. St. Brown, Tonyan, Sternberger all have the physical attributes to be really pretty good. Super stars? I don't know, but pretty good pass catchers in the NFL? why not? We've hardly gotten to see any of them. St. Brown was injured. Tonyan was injured, Sternberger was injured. Rookie WR's don't often light it up, St. Brown showed some decent stuff. Nothing spectacular, but still decent enough. Tonyan made a great play in Dallas and then was injured. I think he played much of the year because we needed TE's and could grit it out. But he's plenty athletic enough to be a 30 catch and 500 yard TE. Sure he may have other parts missing. he wasn't a high draft pick, he needed time and maybe he never gets it. But the athleticism to work with was pretty obvious i thought.

I don't see why someone can't have optimism on a 3rd round draft pick that basically had a red shirt (injury) rookie year. They obviously thought highly of him. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that 1 or 2 of those guys is a pretty solid player for us this year.

Welcome to the 3/4 full glass room Mondio.
I’m a firm believer in young player development. Very few walk into the men’s league and wreak havoc from day one. For the vast majority it takes time, patience and a lot of adjustments.

 

[PikeBadger]

Nobody is suggesting the Packers should stockpile #1 receivers but it would be important to have a decent #2 as well as better talent at tight end. With the team currently having neither of it they would be in huge troubles if Adams goes down.



That's wishful thinking at best. None of the guys you mentioned have shown anything to justify being that optimistic about the group as a whole.

We see the world of professional football through different scopes CaptWimm. We’ll just have to settle on disagreement with each other. I stand firmly on the side of Packer coaches and management on this issue.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think there's plenty of reason to be optimistic.

The Packers have one proven pass catcher among their receivers and tight ends on the roster. While the youngsters could develop into decent players there's not a whole lot of reasons to be optimistic about the unit.

I don't see why someone can't have optimism on a 3rd round draft pick that basically had a red shirt (injury) rookie year. They obviously thought highly of him. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that 1 or 2 of those guys is a pretty solid player for us this year.

It's common knowledge that it takes even the good tight ends several years to develop into decent players at the pro level. Yet most Packers fans don't think that applies to Sternberger for some random reason.

I’m a firm believer in young player development. Very few walk into the men’s league and wreak havoc from day one. For the vast majority it takes time, patience and a lot of adjustments.

The vast majority never makes a huge impact at all. It's not realistic to expect several players at one position to make a significant jump in the same season. Just take a look at last year for some evidence.