Packers and Kenny Clark agree to massive 4 year contract

[PackAttack12]

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[C-Lee]

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[Poppa San]

Merged 2 near simultaneous threads [/moderation]

Good news to keep one of the best.
Can someone show up to explain the cap ramifications?

 

[weeds]

Is this the Pack waving goodbye to Bahk?

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Is this the Pack waving goodbye to Bahk?

I'd be doubtful of that. You don't let a top LT go in his prime. Find a way to keep him.

 

[tynimiller]

BOOOM!!!

https://www.bellinghamherald.com/sports/article244985880.html

WORTH EVERY CENT!

 

[Sanguine camper]

37 million in the first two years. How does that fit under the cap? Clark is indispensable but now it looks like the Packers will have some cap casualties unless other guys take some pay cuts. I'd be up for dumping Lowry and Turner as soon as practical to help pay for Clark's monster contract.

 

[gopkrs]

Clark seemed so young when he first got here. I think he will get even better over the next several years. He needs some help though.

 

[tynimiller]

37 million in the first two years. How does that fit under the cap? Clark is indispensable but now it looks like the Packers will have some cap casualties unless other guys take some pay cuts. I'd be up for dumping Lowry and Turner as soon as practical to help pay for Clark's monster contract.

Linsley makes the quickest and most logical one if we want to make serious progress on it. However, since we won't get a comp pick via a cut, trade him even if it is for a 4th or so.

 

[GleefulGary]

Is this the Pack waving goodbye to Bahk?

No.

Jones and maybe King, yes.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The salary cap is a guideline. Chiefs had less than $200 in cap space this off-season and managed to re-sign Kelce, Mahomes, and Jones. If a team wants a player, they can sign them (as long as they don't have too much dead cap from terrible free agent deals).

 

[HardRightEdge]

No.

Jones and maybe King, yes.

Lets see what Clark's 2021 cap number looks like. It should be pretty chunky.

If the 2021 cap is $175 mil, you'll be wondering who besides Bakhtiari, Jones, Williams and King will be hitting the skids. Rodgers $5 mil in cap savings you so dearly covet would be merely scratching the surface. Cutting Linsley now would save a player but they just don't seem to want to do that.

Top 51 cap obligations currently sit at $181 mil without Clark's new money or any of the 2021 free agents extended.

Click the 2021 tab here: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/green-bay-packers/

 

[HardRightEdge]

37 million in the first two years. How does that fit under the cap?

Easy. It's an extension. If it is a $25 mil signing bonus as reported that's spread over 5 years. Then this deal takes up only an additional $5 mil in cap cost for 2020 out of the $10 mil free cap on the books. The big Clark hits come in the years after that. Extending Clark under the 2020 cap was never the issue (unless you wanted Jones or somebody else extended instead). It's what comes next and that is not pretty.[/QUOTE]

The salary cap is a guideline.

That is a highly flawed perspective. The cap is hard and fast. It's pay me now or pay me later. Anybody can hand out big signing bonuses with small salaries and pile up cap liabilities in future years.

Chiefs had less than $200 in cap space this off-season and managed to re-sign Kelce, Mahomes, and Jones. If a team wants a player, they can sign them (as long as they don't have too much dead cap from terrible free agent deals).

You better look at the details. Mahomes cap hit for 2020 is $5.3 mil. That goes to $25 mil next year and then up every year after that as far as the eye can see. Who did the Chiefs lose in the process of signing the above named? Who will they cut to get under the cap? They're saddled with $8 mil in dead cap for Eric Berry and they have Sammy Watkins sitting there with a $16 mil cap number and a $15 mil dead cap number, so their touch is not exactly golden.

The question isn't whether Frank Clark turns in a season worth a $25.8 mil cap number. He d*mn well better though it is hard to see how he could. The question is who are the good players under cheap rookie contrats to make this all add up. If they don't have them, then it won't compute.

Futher, their cap liabilites for 47 players currently under contract for 2021 total $200 mil. What are their prospects beyond this year? It's always easy when your time horizen does not extend past the following February. That would be a good way to look at it if an asteroid wipes out human civilization in March.

 

[sschind]

If the Chiefs can make the contracts they have given out recently work then this should be a cake walk.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Is this the Pack waving goodbye to Bahk?

The Packers could find a way to fit Bakhtiari under the cap for next season as well but I fully expect them to take a long and hard look at his back issues before offering him an extension.

37 million in the first two years. How does that fit under the cap? Clark is indispensable but now it looks like the Packers will have some cap casualties unless other guys take some pay cuts. I'd be up for dumping Lowry and Turner as soon as practical to help pay for Clark's monster contract.

Clark will count only $22 million against the cap over the next two years though. The Packers might still need to make some moves to fit his contract under the cap though.

Linsley makes the quickest and most logical one if we want to make serious progress on it. However, since we won't get a comp pick via a cut, trade him even if it is for a 4th or so.

I highly doubt another team is ready to give up a fourth rounder for Linsley to pay him $8 million this season before he's set to become a free agent.

If a team wants a player, they can sign them (as long as they don't have too much dead cap from terrible free agent deals).

It's not as easy as that. Teams can backload contracts though but that might come back to haunt them if players don't live up to expectations.

If it is a $25 mil signing bonus as reported that's spread over 5 years. Then this deal takes up only an additional $5 mil in cap cost for 2020 out of the $10 mil free cap on the books.

Actually the Packers could and most likely will save $1.8 million in cap space for this season by extending Clark as I fully expect his base salary was reduced to the veteran mimimum in the process. He will probably count $16.1 million towards the cap in 2021.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Actually the Packers could and most likely will save $1.8 million in cap space for this season by extending Clark as I fully expect his base salary was reduced to the veteran mimimum in the process. He will probably count $16.1 million towards the cap in 2021.

Clark will count only $22 million against the cap over the next two years though. The Packers might still need to make some moves to fit his contract under the cap though.

Good points, predicated on the report that he will be paid $37 mil cash over the first two years. If we assume his 2020 salary dropped to $1 mil in 2020:

2020 Cash: $25 mil signing bonus + salary reduced to $1 mil = $26 mil
2021 Cash: $11 mil in salary and roster bonuses = $11 mil

2020 Cap Cost: $1 mil salary (reduced from $7.8 mil) + $5 mil signing bonus proration = $6 mil
2021 Cap Cost: $11 mil salary + $5 mil signing bonus priration = $16 mil

The first question then becomes whether this is really 4 years @ $70 mil or is it for all practical pursposes
5 years @ $71 mil?

The Packers could find a way to fit Bakhtiari under the cap for next season as well but I fully expect them to take a long and hard look at his back issues before offering him an extension.

If the above numbers are close to fact, the Packers current contract commitments for the 2021 top 51 jumps from $182 mil to $198 mil in what could be $175 mil cap year. Given what is likely to be a massive loss in stadium revenue ($5 - $6 billion by some estimates) while not even considering cancelled game possibilities, extending Bakhtiari becomes that much more difficult than before. It sure looks like they're tentatively planning to extend Bakhtiari since they did nothing in the draft to replace him. Everybody was talking about WR in the first round. What about OT, a guy to play the right side in 2020 with a move to the left in 2021?

Even with increased revenue from more TV money, a 17 game season and expanded playoffs, of which the players get around half, it could take a couple of years to get back to this year's $198 mil cap number.

They could pick up the oft debated $8 mil by parting with Linsley now, which looks doubtful. There are a number of sub-star players that could be released after this season, or even Preston Smith, to pick up cap savings. That's easy to say, but then there would need to be a lot of roster backing and filling and we saw how that worked out this season with a pile of cap of going ****! without signing an impact player and losing Bulaga and Tramon Williams in the process.

Of course if one believes the world ends 2/8/2021, then many things are possible. Alternatively, with the uncertainties of what the future revenue picture will be, just live for today and see what happens next.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The first question then becomes whether this is really 4 years @ $70 mil or is it for all practical pursposes
5 years @ $71 mil?

I guess Clark will be under contract for five seasons. The total possible compensation remains to be seen at this point.

If the above numbers are close to fact, the Packers current contract commitments for the 2021 top 51 jumps from $182 mil to $198 mil in what could be $175 mil cap year. Given what is likely to be a massive loss in stadium revenue ($5 - $6 billion by some estimates) while not even considering cancelled game possibilities, extending Bakhtiari becomes that much more difficult than before.

Even with increased revenue from more TV money, a 17 game season and expanded playoffs, of which the players get around half, it could take a couple of years to get back to this year's $198 mil cap number.

They could pick up the oft debated $8 mil by parting with Linsley now, which looks doubtful. There are a number of sub-star players that could be released after this season, or even Preston Smith, to pick up cap savings. That's easy to say, but then there would need to be a lot of roster backing and filling and we saw how that worked out this season with a pile of cap of going ****! without signing an impact player and losing Bulaga and Tramon Williams in the process.

The Packers could pick up nearly $50 million in cap space for the 2021 season by releasing Linsley and restructuring the contracts of Rodgers, the Smiths, Adams, Amos, Turner and Lowry if necessary.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I guess Clark will be under contract for five seasons. The total possible compensation remains to be seen at this point.
It sure looks that way. And if your salary cut assumption for 2020 is correct, then there is no point in calling it a 4 year / $70 mil deal. It would in fact be 5 @ 71. My question was more a rehtorical one pending confirmation.

The Packers could pick up nearly $50 million in cap space for the 2021 season by releasing Linsley and restructuring the contracts of Rodgers, the Smiths, Adams, Amos, Turner and Lowry if necessary.

You might as well add Adams to that list. Well, they're not going to be pushing cap out even further for Rodgers. They've not released Linsley yet and I view that as doubtful. As for the other guys, you'd be piling dead cap out into post-30 years. As things stand now, I'd be quire surprised if Turner is still around in 2021, but that's not a lot.

Extensions into more cap backloading, at least some of them, would make more sense if we could count on the clockwork $10 mil annual bumps in the cap. This is not that.

 

[HardRightEdge]

If the Chiefs can make the contracts they have given out recently work then this should be a cake walk.

You surely jest. It could be a lot of things but a cake walk it isn't. Mahomes has a $5+ mil cap number while Rodgers does not, and that's just the starting point of why there is no cake in this league. It is always and immutably cap charge me now or cap charge me later and there's no way around that with big contracts. Everything looks easy if your event horizon does not extend past Feb. 2021.

Besides that, you have to answer the earlier question I posed: who did they lose in the process, have they stacked their recent drafts so as to have cheap production at other positions? Despite the spending, do they really have the horses for a repeat?

The Packers went the other way, shoring up here and there with a bunch of cap without adding an impact player, starting with Crosby. Are you sure the Chiefs didn't fail to shore up where they needed to? Are you sure they won't be in cap hell in 2021?

If you have not answered those questions then you have no answer at all. I'm surely not going to do the work for you because I don't really care what the Chiefs do. The Packers don't play them this year, at least not until a Super Bowl matchup which is a highly unlikely event.

 

[sschind]

You surely jest. It could be a lot of things but a cake walk it isn't. Mahomes has a $5+ mil cap number while Rodgers does not, and that's just the starting point of why there is no cake in this league. It is always and immutably cap charge me now or cap charge me later and there's no way around that with big contracts. Everything looks easy if your event horizon does not extend past Feb. 2021.

Besides that, you have to answer the earlier question I posed: who did they lose in the process, have they stacked their recent drafts so as to have cheap production at other positions? Despite the spending, do they really have the horses for a repeat?

The Packers went the other way, shoring up here and there with a bunch of cap without adding an impact player, starting with Crosby. Are you sure the Chiefs didn't fail to shore up where they needed to? Are you sure they won't be in cap hell in 2021?

If you have not answered those questions then you have no answer at all. I'm surely not going to do the work for you because I don't really care what the Chiefs do. The Packers don't play them this year, at least not until a Super Bowl matchup which is a highly unlikely event.

I jest...and don't call me Shirley

 

[Sunshinepacker]

People disregarding the Chiefs cap manipulation as if they're a unique case. They just signed 3 guys to the highest contacts at their positions (and not long snappers either). The Packers can back load contracts and do many of the same things that other teams have done. Are their consequences later on to doing those things? Yup. But if the Packers REALLY want to re-sign someone, nothing is stopping them, if it's a fair deal, outside of deciding they didn't really value him that much. Other arguments are just ways to pretend the Packers didn't have a choice.

 

[gopkrs]

People disregarding the Chiefs cap manipulation as if they're a unique case. They just signed 3 guys to the highest contacts at their positions (and not long snappers either). The Packers can back load contracts and do many of the same things that other teams have done. Are their consequences later on to doing those things? Yup. But if the Packers REALLY want to re-sign someone, nothing is stopping them, if it's a fair deal, outside of deciding they didn't really value him that much. Other arguments are just ways to pretend the Packers didn't have a choice.

It sure seems that way. The consequences do scare me a bit. I mean are we going to be in a lot better place then the high rollers in a couple years? For Rodgers to win two in a row? I'm not counting us out now though.

 

[HardRightEdge]

People disregarding the Chiefs cap manipulation as if they're a unique case. They just signed 3 guys to the highest contacts at their positions (and not long snappers either). The Packers can back load contracts and do many of the same things that other teams have done. Are their consequences later on to doing those things? Yup. But if the Packers REALLY want to re-sign someone, nothing is stopping them, if it's a fair deal, outside of deciding they didn't really value him that much. Other arguments are just ways to pretend the Packers didn't have a choice.

You're talking about one player. I'm talking about a roster.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

You're talking about one player. I'm talking about a roster.

As was I.

 

[gopkrs]

As was I.

The Chiefs have Mahomes, Kelce, Cris Jones and Frank Clark is coming up I believe. And oh yeah, they have Tyreek Hill. They have some other good players also.