OLB coach Kevin Greene

[JBlood]

Adderley sure had no time for Bengston, according to his book "Lombardi's Left Side", where he describes a drunk Bengston searching a bar for Packers players to boot out. Bengston was the guy that traded Adderley, and Adderley probably had as much to do as anyone with Dallas finally winning a Championship. But, in an interview with Christl, Willie Wood had nice things to say about him. He must not have been one of the players in the bar that night. So I've got mixed feelings about Bengston as a head coach. Really, I think both Lombardi and Bengston suffered from not having Jack Vainisi around to assemble talent after 1960. The reign was over after the '67 season, and they won that year on their reputation as much as anything. Vainisi was a genius at evaluating football player talent.

 

[OldSchool101]

I would like nothing more than to see Capers turn this ship around..and I mean that. That iceberg is getting close and we don't need reverse jets just yet. We do need to adjust our angle significantly to avoid a catastrophe. Small leaks sink big ships.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Really, I think both Lombardi and Bengston suffered from not having Jack Vainisi around to assemble talent after 1960. The reign was over after the '67 season, and they won that year on their reputation as much as anything. Vainisi was a genius at evaluating football player talent.

It would seem Jack Vainisi is lost to history except among the older Packer loyalists. There is not even a Wikipedia page for him; someone passionate about the matter might want to do something about that. His legacy unjustly stands in the massive Lombardi shadow.

 

[NOMOFO]

It would seem Jack Vainisi is lost to history except among the older Packer loyalists. There is not even a Wikipedia page for him; someone passionate about the matter might want to do something about that. His legacy unjustly stands in the massive Lombardi shadow.

Agreed...

When the average fan can't remember what happened 6 months ago and be analytical about very recent history, how would anyone expect we can look back 40 years?

 

[JBlood]

It would seem Jack Vainisi is lost to history except among the older Packer loyalists. There is not even a Wikipedia page for him; someone passionate about the matter might want to do something about that. His legacy unjustly stands in the massive Lombardi shadow.

The best article I've read on Vainisi was this, written by Mike Miller in 2009: http://host.madison.com/sports/jack...cle_3965e117-959a-524a-8e98-8de214462d21.html

The players Vainisi drafted from 1952 to 1958 included:
Babe Parilli
Billy Howton
Bobby Dillon
Hawg Hanner
Al Carmichael
Bill Forester
Jim Ringo
Max McGee
Forrest Gregg
Bob Skoronski
Hank Gremminger
Bart Starr
Paul Hornung
Ron Kramer
John Symank
Bill Currie
Jim Taylor
Ray Nitschke
Jerry Kramer

His biggest and best move was convincing Vince Lombardi to apply for the job in Green Bay, and convincing the executive committee to hire him, after Scooter won 1 game with the above roster in 1958. The rest is history.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm thinking profound... JV died too young... Were due for another "Brian Song". This would be an excellent tribute to an overshadowed legend. Jack Nicholson playing Vince Lombardi would be awesome

 

[longtimefan]

I don't think the main reason for him retiring was to spend more time with his family. For whatever reason he didn't want to stay in Green Bay anymore and I don't see him coming back at any point.

Some where I posted a "rumor" that he would be gone a year before it happened


Might be good to dig it up

 

[Forget Favre]

When the Packers win, it's the defensive players that are great.
When the Packers lose, it's all Capers fault. Never the players. Nope. Not at all. They never do any wrong at all. Nuh-uh. Capers is the wrong one and he should be run out of town on a rail and REPLACED RIGHT THE F NOW!!!!!!!!!!

That's what I'm getting from here and am sooooooo sick and tired of these "FIRE CAPERS!" threads that we get each freaking season and after each game they lose as long as he works for GB.
I trust in Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy and all the other Packers staff because they are the pros and know more about it than I or anyone else on this board ever will.
It is time to stop having Capers be the scapegoat and to put the blame where it truly belongs. On the players.
Capers can do only so much and it's up to the players to execute and carry out his plans.

 

[longtimefan]

Some where I posted a "rumor" that he would be gone a year before it happened


Might be good to dig it up

https://www.packerforum.com/threads/kevin-greene.42916/

 

[rondon57]

Assistant coaches have horrible hours, spending very long days preparing, analyzing, and coaching. It's no mystery to me why someone who is (or should be) extremely financially independent would decide not to continue to do it. I don't know if that's true or not. Moss was promoted to assistant HC (apparently to make another team poaching him less likely) his second year in Green Bay, but I really don’t know what his contribution to the defense has been. If you judge him strictly by the play of the ILBs – which he coached while Greene was in Green Bay – it doesn’t look good for him.

BTW, for those hoping for a new DC next off season, one very likely candidate IMO would be Moss. Or someone else currently on the staff. I think the defense needs an infusion of new blood so I would be less than excited if someone like Moss replaced Capers.

I agree,new scheme, new blood and a new coach

 

[rondon57]

When the Packers win, it's the defensive players that are great.
When the Packers lose, it's all Capers fault. Never the players. Nope. Not at all. They never do any wrong at all. Nuh-uh. Capers is the wrong one and he should be run out of town on a rail and REPLACED RIGHT THE F NOW!!!!!!!!!!

That's what I'm getting from here and am sooooooo sick and tired of these "FIRE CAPERS!" threads that we get each freaking season and after each game they lose as long as he works for GB.
I trust in Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy and all the other Packers staff because they are the pros and know more about it than I or anyone else on this board ever will.
It is time to stop having Capers be the scapegoat and to put the blame where it truly belongs. On the players.
Capers can do only so much and it's up to the players to execute and carry out his plans.

"I trust in Ted Thompson"and blame the players?Who do you think drafted these players?what you said here makes no sense,some one in that organization has obviously screwed up the last 4 years,was it TT,MM or DC or all 3?trust all you want that Defense is not likely to just flip a switch and become something they are not,sure they look o.k. against the Bears,Vikings etc but when they face teams like the Patriots,don't be surprised to watch that D get lit up like the 4th of July.

 

[Half Empty]

When the Packers win, it's the defensive players that are great.
When the Packers lose, it's all Capers fault. Never the players. Nope. Not at all. They never do any wrong at all. Nuh-uh. Capers is the wrong one and he should be run out of town on a rail and REPLACED RIGHT THE F NOW!!!!!!!!!!

That's what I'm getting from here and am sooooooo sick and tired of these "FIRE CAPERS!" threads that we get each freaking season and after each game they lose as long as he works for GB.
I trust in Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy and all the other Packers staff because they are the pros and know more about it than I or anyone else on this board ever will.
It is time to stop having Capers be the scapegoat and to put the blame where it truly belongs. On the players.
Capers can do only so much and it's up to the players to execute and carry out his plans.

For one thing, nobody will ever be able to prove or disprove the contention that those guys know more than we do. They went into that line of work and get paid to do it, but I think there are plenty of others who could have done the same.

Second, I don't understand the trust in TT coupled with blaming the players. TT's prefessional job is to stock the team with good players, and MM's is to get the most out of them. If MM is given lousy players, it's TT's fault.

 

[rondon57]

Well, Bengtson actually had a rather enviable situation at the start. He took over a team that had just won three straight championships and 5 of 7. They were aging but there was considerable younger talent in the pipeline. He had been, explicitly or implicitly, promised the Packers head job if and when Lombardi retired; so he passed on any other opportunities for a head coaching job in the NFL while he was assistant.

He could have been like George Seifert following Bill Walsh with the 49ers but just didn't have what it took to be a successful head coach.

Bears some resemblance to Sherman after Holmgren,given HC and GM(which is what Holmgren wanted but didn't get in GB)and put the team into decline until TT came in and fired him.

 

[Einstein McFly]

I'm hoping for Rex Ryan. Greene, for all his fire and accomplishments, didn't see to be able to do much with anyone outside of CM3. Perry and Neal are both doing a lot better this year than previous.

 

[OCBP]

For one thing, nobody will ever be able to prove or disprove the contention that those guys know more than we do. They went into that line of work and get paid to do it, but I think there are plenty of others who could have done the same.

Second, I don't understand the trust in TT coupled with blaming the players. TT's prefessional job is to stock the team with good players, and MM's is to get the most out of them. If MM is given lousy players, it's TT's fault.

Half Empty--Good post.

While I'm not sure Capers deserves the axe, someone will get it if the defensive play continues as is. Obviously, TT and MM are going nowhere.

I agree with you. TT is responsible for player personnel. If it's not the coaching, then either the players lack the talent to perform in the scheme or the coaches are unable to coach up. Either way the "D" is struggling. As a result, if it continues, something should change.

 

[Packerlifer]

Bears some resemblance to Sherman after Holmgren,given HC and GM(which is what Holmgren wanted but didn't get in GB)and put the team into decline until TT came in and fired him.

Don't forget Ray Rhodes had his year in town before Sherm. Sherman actually reversed the decline, to a degree, at first. Got the club back to a winning record his first season in 2000 and had them in the playoffs four straight until the big fiasco in 2005.

I wouldn't rehash the Sherman years. We know all about the playoff failures, the moves as GM that didn't pan out and left the team in a sal-cap bind. But for the first 4-5 years things were considerably better in Green Bay than they were with Bengtson, Devine, Starr, Gregg and Infante.

 

[rondon57]

Don't forget Ray Rhodes had his year in town before Sherm. Sherman actually reversed the decline, to a degree, at first. Got the club back to a winning record his first season in 2000 and had them in the playoffs four straight until the big fiasco in 2005.

I wouldn't rehash the Sherman years. We know all about the playoff failures, the moves as GM that didn't pan out and left the team in a sal-cap bind. But for the first 4-5 years things were considerably better in Green Bay than they were with Bengtson, Devine, Starr, Gregg and Infante.

Rhodes was barely a blip on the radar,easy to forget,Sherman maintained the team but never got over the hump,I remember him signing DE Joe Johnson and it cost him,guy was a total bust,injured and ineffective.Bengston,Devine and Gregg were o.k. coaches without much talent on the roster,Starr was not a coach and had no talent on the roster,he even brought in strongman Bill Kazmier as a D lineman,coaxed washed up Cedrick Hardaway out of retirement at 390 lbs,guy couldn't even run anymore,it was more like a freak show rather than a training camp and Infante was a joke!

 

[El Guapo]

I originally mentioned Rhodes because of his stint as defensive coordinator. Sherman got by with other GM's talent until the cupboard was bare, due to his ineptitude in the talent acquisition department

 

[Mklangelo]

Maybe we can get Kevin Green, Jim Bates, Ray Rhodes, Fritz Shurmur (RIP), and Phil Bengston (RIP) to form an all-star defensive coaching staff

I really liked Kevin Green as a coach in GB and as a player. I wish him well. Was sorry to see him go.

What a beast in his playing years. Go to YouTube and enjoy.

In my opinion our current problems have nothing to do with Kevin Green.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I think it's a mistake to view defensive personnel responsibility as 100% Thompson and 0% Capers.

Do you think it was Thompson dictating to Capers that the defense needed more length, more athleticism on the D-Line and a minimum of three play makers to build around (see: Peppers), or do you think those were needs communicated upward by the presumptive defensive guru?

Given that Capers expressed these views as his own prior to the personnel moves, I think it reasonable to think he shares some responsibility for Thompson's selections. Put another way, to think Capers is mute behind closed doors as what he thinks he needs or that Thompson is deaf to Capers is a bit naive.

That's not to say I disapprove of the Peppers acquisition considering the alternatives and available cap pace, though the jury is still out on the bang-for-the-buck calculation. However, Capers certain involvement in personnel decisions, to whatever degree, does raise questions about his complicity in the Perry and Datone Jones picks, the marriage to Hawk (who is repeatedly praised by Capers for his leadership and communication), and who-knows-what kind of input into the somewhat head-scratching Brad Jones contract, PFF's Jones ranking that did not match the eye test notwithstanding.

 

[TJV]

I agree that there is communication from Capers to Thompson about what kind of players he wants but this year it looks to me like McCarthy shares more in that responsibility than he has in the past. He was open in the off season about his greater involvement in the changes on D this season.

 

[Mklangelo]

I agree that there is communication from Capers to Thompson about what kind of players he wants but this year it looks to me like McCarthy shares more in that responsibility than he has in the past. He was open in the off season about his greater involvement in the changes on D this season.

Well, McCarthy isn't going anywhere and I don't want him to. I wouldn't mind Capers being shown the door though.

 

[rondon57]

Shurmur had Reggie White, Sean Jones, Gilbert Brown, Santana Dotson, LeRoy Butler, too. Maybe that had a little to do with it.

Ron Wolf was not afraid to do what it takes to improve the talent on that team,e.g.;Reggie White(FA),Sean Jones(FA),Santana Dotson(FA)

 

[HardRightEdge]

I agree that there is communication from Capers to Thompson about what kind of players he wants but this year it looks to me like McCarthy shares more in that responsibility than he has in the past. He was open in the off season his greater involvement in the changes on D this season.

Clearly McCarthy shares responsibility, but he's not going anywhere for some time to come, nor should he, given the check marks in his plus column.

My point is that when evaluating Capers I don't think he can be exempted entirely from flawed personnel decisions. Since we're not in the room(s) we can't attempt to apportion the blame, but Capers responsibility is certainly greater than 0%.

McCarthy said following the draft, “We’re going to be a better defense this year. You can write that in big letters. We’ll be a better defense this year.” While Dix/Hyde have improved markedly the dreadful safety coverage of recent seasons (when Burnett isn't on the sidelines), I don't think we can say this is a big-letter-improved defense. It wasn't that high of a bar to begin with.

Usually failing on a big letter promise has consequences. McCarthy can't fire himself. There's still half a season to right the ship, but Capers should be on the bubble.

 

[rondon57]

I think it's a mistake to view defensive personnel responsibility as 100% Thompson and 0% Capers.

Do you think it was Thompson dictating to Capers that the defense needed more length, more athleticism on the D-Line and a minimum of three play makers to build around (see: Peppers), or do you think those were needs communicated upward by the presumptive defensive guru?

Given that Capers expressed these views as his own prior to the personnel moves, I think it reasonable to think he shares some responsibility for Thompson's selections. Put another way, to think Capers is mute behind closed doors as what he thinks he needs or that Thompson is deaf to Capers is a bit naive.

That's not to say I disapprove of the Peppers acquisition considering the alternatives and available cap pace, though the jury is still out on the bang-for-the-buck calculation. However, Capers certain involvement in personnel decisions, to whatever degree, does raise questions about his complicity in the Perry and Datone Jones picks, the marriage to Hawk (who is repeatedly praised by Capers for his leadership and communication), and who-knows-what kind of input into the somewhat head-scratching Brad Jones contract, PFF's Jones ranking that did not match the eye test notwithstanding.

I do believe Capers has a big say in the defensive personnel but either way the defense needs better players and a DC that knows how to utilize those players.The first two years under Capers was misleading,he still had talent from Holmgren-Wolf tenure but has eroded since,like I said before 5 defensive Pro Bowl players in 2010 to 0 in 2013 is not a defense on the up swing but then again like I said Capers vow that the defense will improve is meaningless simply because they got no where to go but up.