OFFICIAL 2018 1ST ROUND PICK Jaire Alexander

[mongoosev]

dude is short but very quick. make sure you order your superbowl stuff now!

 

[thequick12]

Interesting stats on our new CB.

Jaire only played 150 snaps due to injury in 6 games
Only 3 passes downfield were completed on him (2 more were completed behind the line of scrimmage)
Jaire intercepted or broke up more passes than were completed on him


https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/01/heres-an-amazing-stat-on-new-packers-cb-jaire-alexander/

He was targeted 20 times and he gave up 5 completions. If you don't count the 2 screens which would be pretty hard to defend depending on the coverage your in he allowed completions on just 15% passes into his coverage

 

[thequick12]

Now that we have two 1st round picks in 2019. I'm wondering if we wouldn't consider using a 2019 first or second round pick as leverage to trade for a substantial veteran Edge rusher?

What edge rusher worth a 1st or 2nd round pick is available in trade?

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Packers signed Alexander to a 4 year/12.1M deal. Leaving Jackson and Burks as the only players who have yet to sign.

Wonder why they waited last to sign the guys who get the bulk of the money?

 

[AmishMafia]

Packers signed Alexander to a 4 year/12.1M deal. Leaving Jackson and Burks as the only players who have yet to sign.

Wonder why they waited last to sign the guys who get the bulk of the money?

Slotting. It's fairly cut and dried, but the bigger money requires a little more work in details.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Packers signed Alexander to a 4 year/12.1M deal. Leaving Jackson and Burks as the only players who have yet to sign.

Wonder why they waited last to sign the guys who get the bulk of the money?

The CBA has effectively changed the way rookie contracts are dealt with. No longer are rookies and their agents waiting to see what others are being paid, the amount is pretty much preset, depending on where the player was drafted. So now, they are only hammering out things like deferrals, guarantees, offsets, splits and voiding. So depending on the players agent, this can happen pretty quick.

 

[Mondio]

I love the rookie wage scale. One of the best things about the last cba

 

[GleefulGary]

While I don't certainly like the way they obtained Alexander, I am not unsatisfied yet. Still a lot of decent players out there and still a lot of draft to play out.

I don't like that Martavious Bryant was had for a 3rd and we used a 3rd to get Alexander but I have a feeling Gute is out there doing his due diligence to secure some decent players tomorrow.

Trust me...securing all these round 5+ picks is not on my high side either. We have no scouting crew left. These guys are working on luck at best.

Sure wish we had used that 3rd round pick to trade for Martavis Bryant rather than get JA and another 1st round pick.

 

[GleefulGary]

I still love the JA pick. I think he's great. I think he'll be a top tier CB for quite a while.

Derwin James, LVE, they were also really good options at positions of need. I would argue that CB is a more important position than S or LB, but it'll be really interesting to see what we do with the Saints pick this year.

Should make for some good discussion.

 

[PackAttack12]

These are some snippets from Packers Wire/USA Today regarding Jaire Alexander and the impact he is having for the Packers this season, and how impressive it is on a league wide scale:

According to Pro Football Focus, Alexander leads the NFL with 13 “forced incompletions” to start this season. No other player has more than eight.

PFF considered a forced incompletion to be any accurate throw turned into an incompletion by a play from the defender in coverage. It’s an important volume stat for understanding the individual value of a player in coverage.

Alexander also leads the NFL in passes defensed with 10. Overall, quarterbacks are completing only 51.2 percent of passes thrown at Alexander’s coverage.

His coverage numbers would look far better had Alexander not slipped up in Week 5 against Amari Cooper, who burned him for over 200 yards and a touchdown in Dallas.

If Alexander continues at his current pace, he’ll produce 34 forced incompletions in 2019. Last season, Stephon Gilmore led the NFL with 29.

At this point, I think there’s absolutely no doubt that the Packers hit this pick out of the park, especially considering that it helped facilitate the deal to acquire Savage.

We have one hell of a player in Jaire. I’ll say this much: Gutekunst couldn’t have done better than orchestrating the deal for Jaire, while also getting an additional 1st rounder from the Saints.

 

[PackAttack12]

derwin james falls in their lap...but no. they shockingly trade down...then trade up. they panic and take alexander. so...a stud starter gets away and we end up with a what...a back up...maybe part time slot guy?

Panic???

What part of their choice to move down and then up was “panic?”

This is such typical draft day trash. “They didn’t take the guy I wanted so it’s awful.”

As for Alexander maybe being a part time slot guy... lol. I’ll let him take care of that take.

You’re welcome @Dantés

 

[OldSchool101]

You’re welcome @Dantés

Funny. I was just looking over some old threads similar to this. I urge you to go through your own comments from time to time and skip back enough time to be able to see how things transpired on a particle player or coach etc..
It’s absolutely amazing to me, more often than not, how ridiculous we sound in the conclusions we draw about a coach or player or event.. while now knowing how it translates months or years later.

This is a great example, but we all do it.

We should have fun, comical “prophet award” thread at the end of each season where we are allowed to go back and repost a posters comments like this.

 

[Dantés]

Funny. I was just looking over some old threads similar to this. I urge you to go through your own comments from time to time and skip back enough time to be able to see how things transpired on a particle player or coach etc..
It’s absolutely amazing to me, more often than not, how ridiculous we sound in the conclusions we draw about a coach or player or event.. while now knowing how it translates months or years later.

This is a great example, but we all do it.

We should have fun, comical “prophet award” thread at the end of each season where we are allowed to go back and repost a posters comments like this.

I think the lesson is not to be a turd about it. Like, "I would have preferred ___________ with that pick" instead of "trash! Clearly a panic move!!!"

 

[OldSchool101]

I think the lesson is not to be a turd about it. Like, "I would have preferred ___________ with that pick" instead of "trash! Clearly a panic move!!!"

Absolutely. You’d think that kinda thing would keep us more modest in our approach. But that will never happen

 

[GleefulGary]

I just want to point out that I was the first man on the Jaire train.

Never forget!

 

[OldSchool101]

I just want to point out that I was the first man on the Jaire train.

Never forget!

You’re Pride is going to be your downfall Glee!
Tone it!

 

[GleefulGary]

I'm also thankful we didn't take Josh Jackson.

Hallelujah.

The disappointment did come later, unfortunately.

 

[GleefulGary]

Hold on. So people who aren't happy with passing on James for Alexander should sit back and give him a chance first because nobody knows for sure how good either will be but the other side just gets to say $#!@ like this? Wtf?

In all likelihood it would be a feat for him to supplant King on the outside much less Tramon this season. Expecting him to he more then the nickel back isnt a realistic expectation

But yet, I was right.

Damn, that feels good.

 

[RRyder]

But yet, I was right.

Damn, that feels good.

Sure Alexander has been great. Still James wouldve been the much better pick (assuming he comes back from injury 100) All things equal a dynamic Saftey is worth more imo then a shutdown corner and James when healthy will be this generations Ed Reed/Troy P

Still just an fyi. It's never a good idea to go back and try and gloat. With the amount of predictions we all have everyone has hits and misses so unless you want list every miss every time you gloat it's just cherry picking

 

[GleefulGary]

Sure Alexander has been great. Still James wouldve been the much better pick (assuming he comes back from injury 100) All things equal a dynamic Saftey is worth more imo then a shutdown corner and James when healthy will be this generations Ed Reed/Troy P

Still just an fyi. It's never a good idea to go back and try and gloat. With the amount of predictions we all have everyone has hits and misses so unless you want list every miss every time you gloat it's just cherry picking

Three things:

1) You graded the trade down/up to get Alexander and a 1st as a D+. D+. Asinine.

2) A dynamic safety is worth more than a shutdown CB? In what world?

3) Troy P. was very good, but he wasn't on Ed Reed's level. Ed Reed is the GOAT safety. I love Derwin James, but he isn't Ed Reed.

 

[Dantés]

Sure Alexander has been great. Still James wouldve been the much better pick (assuming he comes back from injury 100) All things equal a dynamic Saftey is worth more imo then a shutdown corner and James when healthy will be this generations Ed Reed/Troy P

Still just an fyi. It's never a good idea to go back and try and gloat. With the amount of predictions we all have everyone has hits and misses so unless you want list every miss every time you gloat it's just cherry picking

The league does not seem to agree with you about safety vs corner.

And you can't just compare James and Alexander. The move to trade down also put them into position to move up and draft Savage.

 

[RRyder]

Three things:

1) You graded the trade down/up to get Alexander and a 1st as a D+. D+. Asinine.

2) A dynamic safety is worth more than a shutdown CB? In what world?

3) Troy P. was very good, but he wasn't on Ed Reed's level. Ed Reed is the GOAT safety. I love Derwin James, but he isn't Ed Reed.

I dont think you realize just how good Derwin James was last year. As a rookie he was a All Pro talent and lined up at every position on defense not named nose tackle. (just take that last sentence in for a moment and let it marinate)

And yes in today's NFL a dynamic Saftey is worth more. Theres a reason that Thomas and Chancellor where worth more to the Legion of Boom then Sherman and it's not because Sherman wasnt great

(also Troy P was a DPoY. Dont try underselling him)

The league does not seem to agree with you about safety vs corner.

And you can't just compare James and Alexander. The move to trade down also put them into position to move up and draft Savage.

I'm simply not comparing the two and then adding in Savage. I understand that it also netted Savage but at the time what it would turn in to wasnt known and since they traded up to get him it's not just a 2 for 1 scenario so I'm not even touching the logistics of sorting through the different scenarios (as an example if we dont make that trade and take James perhaps Gute is more inclined to trade back instead of selecting Gary or perhaps they're drafting 18-20 based on record instead of 12 and still select Savage to be a running mate and use the Amos money to sign a WR or perhaps all the picks and FA signings stay the same and with Amos and James deep center they hit on one of those picks they traded for Savage and now you have an extra prospect at ILB and WR or............ You get my point. Soooooooo many dominos)

It's not like I don't love Alexander. Hes on his way to being great. I still would argue that I'd still rather have a All Pro possibly generational Saftey over the possibly Pro Bowl Cornerback.

To be clear. I'm not lamenting it. I'm very happy with how it turned out. Still think it couldve ended better.

Also my post that was brought up a year later still holds weight in the sense that people who like certain picks love to make grand claims while spouting to the fans that dislike the picks that they should "wait and see". That double standard is still dumb

 

[Dantés]

I dont think you realize just how good Derwin James was last year. As a rookie he was a All Pro talent and lined up at every position on defense not named nose tackle. (just take that last sentence in for a moment and let it marinate)

And yes in today's NFL a dynamic Saftey is worth more. Theres a reason that Thomas and Chancellor where worth more to the Legion of Boom then Sherman and it's not because Sherman wasnt great

(also Troy P was a DPoY. Dont try underselling him)

I'm simply not comparing the two and then adding in Savage. I understand that it also netted Savage but at the time what it would turn in to wasnt known and since they traded up to get him it's not just a 2 for 1 scenario so I'm not even touching the logistics of sorting through the different scenarios (as an example if we dont make that trade and take James perhaps Gute is more inclined to trade back instead of selecting Gary or perhaps they're drafting 18-20 based on record instead of 12 and still select Savage to be a running mate and use the Amos money to sign a WR or perhaps all the picks and FA signings stay the same and with Amos and James deep center they hit on one of those picks they traded for Savage and now you have an extra prospect at ILB and WR or............ You get my point. Soooooooo many dominos)

It's not like I don't love Alexander. Hes on his way to being great. I still would argue that I'd still rather have a All Pro possibly generational Saftey over the possibly Pro Bowl Cornerback.

To be clear. I'm not lamenting it. I'm very happy with how it turned out. Still think it couldve ended better.

Also my post that was brought up a year later still holds weight in the sense that people who like certain picks love to make grand claims while spouting to the fans that dislike the picks that they should "wait and see". That double standard is still dumb

In Pete Carroll's particular scheme, one could make the case that Earl Thomas was the most important player on the field. This is largely because of how much single high coverage he played and the reality that zone corners are not as rare or hard to come by.

And yet despite that, they still paid Richard Sherman more than Thomas (and way more than Chancellor who, while good, does not belong in this discussion). In 2013, Chancellor got 4/28/17; in 2014, Thomas got 4/40/28; and also in 2014, Sherman got 4/56/40.

So if Thomas, or play-making safeties in general, are considered more valuable, then you have to explain why they get paid like they are less valuable.

In the last 10 years, 9 cornerbacks have been drafted in the top 10 picks, while only 3 safeties can say that. Again, that's hard to explain if play-making safeties are more valuable that corners.

The best young safety who has had a chance to hit FA, Kevin Byard, got an extension for 5/70.5M/31 from the Titans. And let me tell you if you're unaware-- Byard is a stud. Trumaine Johnson, who was basically considered to be merely above average when he hit the market, beat that deal despite signing it a year earlier and being older at the time. What is someone like Jalen Ramsey going to do? He's going to blow it out of the water.

There's no evidence that the league considers safeties, even dynamic ones, to be more valuable than corners, generally. And this is especially true when talking about man coverage safeties. All the evidence actually points in the opposite direction.

 

[Dantés]

Ok, I'm going to attempt to dissect all of the moves, starting with the trade down in 2018.

• The Packers traded down from #14 to #27 for #147 (5th) and what would become #30 in 2019.
• The Packers traded up to #18 in exchange for #27, #76 (3rd), and #186 (6th), also receiving back #248 (7th).
• The Packers trade up to #88 (3rd) in exchange for #101 (4th) and #147 (5th).
• The Packers trade up to #21 in exchange for #30, #114 (4th), and #118 (4th).

So altogether between the two seasons:

• Trade away: 2018 picks #14, #76, #101, and #186; 2019 picks #30, #114, and #118
• Receive back: 2018 picks #18, #88, #248; 2019 pick #21

So if you want to use Derwin James as a stand-in for pick #14, then what they essentially did was trade Derwin James, a 3rd round pick (Mason Rudolph), two 4th round picks (Dru Samia, Hjalte Froholdt), and a 6th round pick (Jacob Martin) for Jaire Alexander, Darnell Savage, a 5th (used in the trade up for Oren Burks), and a 7th (Kendall Donnerson).

These players are all still incredibly young so it is not time to try and draw a final assessment of what was pulled off. However, all three players appear in the early going to be successful draft picks. James, despite being injured currently, is a game-changer at safety. Alexander has shown definite signs of being an All-Pro type of cornerback. Savage has been promising as a rookie. If in two years, James and Alexander are All-Pro type talents at their position and Savage is a very good free safety, then I would say that the Packers received the more valuable end of the deal. However, that all remains to be seen.

 

[AmishMafia]

Couple thoughts:

Had the Packers taken Derwin James instead of what they did, they would be taking different players with those picks they gave up. To truly rate the trade we would have to know the Packers board.

I thought Alexander was a much bigger injury risk than James. I think that was a common opinion.

I would rather have a CB than a safety if they are on the same level.

I would take a HOF Safety over a AllPro CB.


Funny thing. I did not like the trade back, though the we didn't get the value. Did not like the value of the trade up. But, both trades together, I thought we got good value.