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OFFICIAL 2018 1ST ROUND PICK Jaire Alexander

Discussion in 'Draft Talk' started by longtimefan, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. mongoosev

    mongoosev Cheesehead

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    dude is short but very quick. make sure you order your superbowl stuff now!
     
  2. thequick12

    thequick12 Cheesehead

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    He was targeted 20 times and he gave up 5 completions. If you don't count the 2 screens which would be pretty hard to defend depending on the coverage your in he allowed completions on just 15% passes into his coverage
     
  3. thequick12

    thequick12 Cheesehead

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    What edge rusher worth a 1st or 2nd round pick is available in trade?
     
  4. Favre>Rodgers259

    Favre>Rodgers259 Cheesehead

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    Packers signed Alexander to a 4 year/12.1M deal. Leaving Jackson and Burks as the only players who have yet to sign.

    Wonder why they waited last to sign the guys who get the bulk of the money?
     
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  5. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Slotting. It's fairly cut and dried, but the bigger money requires a little more work in details.
     
  6. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    The CBA has effectively changed the way rookie contracts are dealt with. No longer are rookies and their agents waiting to see what others are being paid, the amount is pretty much preset, depending on where the player was drafted. So now, they are only hammering out things like deferrals, guarantees, offsets, splits and voiding. So depending on the players agent, this can happen pretty quick.
     
  7. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I love the rookie wage scale. One of the best things about the last cba
     
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  8. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    Sure wish we had used that 3rd round pick to trade for Martavis Bryant rather than get JA and another 1st round pick.
     
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  9. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    I still love the JA pick. I think he's great. I think he'll be a top tier CB for quite a while.

    Derwin James, LVE, they were also really good options at positions of need. I would argue that CB is a more important position than S or LB, but it'll be really interesting to see what we do with the Saints pick this year.

    Should make for some good discussion.
     
  10. PackAttack12

    PackAttack12 R-E-L-A-X

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    These are some snippets from Packers Wire/USA Today regarding Jaire Alexander and the impact he is having for the Packers this season, and how impressive it is on a league wide scale:
    At this point, I think there’s absolutely no doubt that the Packers hit this pick out of the park, especially considering that it helped facilitate the deal to acquire Savage.

    We have one hell of a player in Jaire. I’ll say this much: Gutekunst couldn’t have done better than orchestrating the deal for Jaire, while also getting an additional 1st rounder from the Saints.
     
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  11. PackAttack12

    PackAttack12 R-E-L-A-X

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    You’re welcome @Dantés :tup:
     
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  12. OldSchool101

    OldSchool101 Pack

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    Funny. I was just looking over some old threads similar to this. I urge you to go through your own comments from time to time and skip back enough time to be able to see how things transpired on a particle player or coach etc..
    It’s absolutely amazing to me, more often than not, how ridiculous we sound in the conclusions we draw about a coach or player or event.. while now knowing how it translates months or years later.

    This is a great example, but we all do it.

    We should have fun, comical “prophet award” thread at the end of each season where we are allowed to go back and repost a posters comments like this. :tup:
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
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  13. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    I think the lesson is not to be a turd about it. Like, "I would have preferred ___________ with that pick" instead of "trash! Clearly a panic move!!!"
     
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  14. OldSchool101

    OldSchool101 Pack

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    Absolutely. You’d think that kinda thing would keep us more modest in our approach. But that will never happen :laugh:
     
  15. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    I just want to point out that I was the first man on the Jaire train.

    Never forget!
     
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  16. OldSchool101

    OldSchool101 Pack

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    You’re Pride is going to be your downfall Glee!
    Tone it! :p
     
  17. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    The disappointment did come later, unfortunately.
     
  18. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    But yet, I was right.

    Damn, that feels good.
     
  19. RRyder

    RRyder Cheesehead

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    Sure Alexander has been great. Still James wouldve been the much better pick (assuming he comes back from injury 100) All things equal a dynamic Saftey is worth more imo then a shutdown corner and James when healthy will be this generations Ed Reed/Troy P

    Still just an fyi. It's never a good idea to go back and try and gloat. With the amount of predictions we all have everyone has hits and misses so unless you want list every miss every time you gloat it's just cherry picking
     
  20. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    Three things:

    1) You graded the trade down/up to get Alexander and a 1st as a D+. D+. Asinine.

    2) A dynamic safety is worth more than a shutdown CB? In what world?

    3) Troy P. was very good, but he wasn't on Ed Reed's level. Ed Reed is the GOAT safety. I love Derwin James, but he isn't Ed Reed.
     
  21. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    The league does not seem to agree with you about safety vs corner.

    And you can't just compare James and Alexander. The move to trade down also put them into position to move up and draft Savage.
     
  22. RRyder

    RRyder Cheesehead

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    I dont think you realize just how good Derwin James was last year. As a rookie he was a All Pro talent and lined up at every position on defense not named nose tackle. (just take that last sentence in for a moment and let it marinate)

    And yes in today's NFL a dynamic Saftey is worth more. Theres a reason that Thomas and Chancellor where worth more to the Legion of Boom then Sherman and it's not because Sherman wasnt great

    (also Troy P was a DPoY. Dont try underselling him)

    I'm simply not comparing the two and then adding in Savage. I understand that it also netted Savage but at the time what it would turn in to wasnt known and since they traded up to get him it's not just a 2 for 1 scenario so I'm not even touching the logistics of sorting through the different scenarios (as an example if we dont make that trade and take James perhaps Gute is more inclined to trade back instead of selecting Gary or perhaps they're drafting 18-20 based on record instead of 12 and still select Savage to be a running mate and use the Amos money to sign a WR or perhaps all the picks and FA signings stay the same and with Amos and James deep center they hit on one of those picks they traded for Savage and now you have an extra prospect at ILB and WR or............ You get my point. Soooooooo many dominos)

    It's not like I don't love Alexander. Hes on his way to being great. I still would argue that I'd still rather have a All Pro possibly generational Saftey over the possibly Pro Bowl Cornerback.

    To be clear. I'm not lamenting it. I'm very happy with how it turned out. Still think it couldve ended better.

    Also my post that was brought up a year later still holds weight in the sense that people who like certain picks love to make grand claims while spouting to the fans that dislike the picks that they should "wait and see". That double standard is still dumb
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  23. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    In Pete Carroll's particular scheme, one could make the case that Earl Thomas was the most important player on the field. This is largely because of how much single high coverage he played and the reality that zone corners are not as rare or hard to come by.

    And yet despite that, they still paid Richard Sherman more than Thomas (and way more than Chancellor who, while good, does not belong in this discussion). In 2013, Chancellor got 4/28/17; in 2014, Thomas got 4/40/28; and also in 2014, Sherman got 4/56/40.

    So if Thomas, or play-making safeties in general, are considered more valuable, then you have to explain why they get paid like they are less valuable.

    In the last 10 years, 9 cornerbacks have been drafted in the top 10 picks, while only 3 safeties can say that. Again, that's hard to explain if play-making safeties are more valuable that corners.

    The best young safety who has had a chance to hit FA, Kevin Byard, got an extension for 5/70.5M/31 from the Titans. And let me tell you if you're unaware-- Byard is a stud. Trumaine Johnson, who was basically considered to be merely above average when he hit the market, beat that deal despite signing it a year earlier and being older at the time. What is someone like Jalen Ramsey going to do? He's going to blow it out of the water.

    There's no evidence that the league considers safeties, even dynamic ones, to be more valuable than corners, generally. And this is especially true when talking about man coverage safeties. All the evidence actually points in the opposite direction.
     
  24. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    Ok, I'm going to attempt to dissect all of the moves, starting with the trade down in 2018.
    • The Packers traded down from #14 to #27 for #147 (5th) and what would become #30 in 2019.
    • The Packers traded up to #18 in exchange for #27, #76 (3rd), and #186 (6th), also receiving back #248 (7th).
    • The Packers trade up to #88 (3rd) in exchange for #101 (4th) and #147 (5th).
    • The Packers trade up to #21 in exchange for #30, #114 (4th), and #118 (4th).
    So altogether between the two seasons:

    • Trade away: 2018 picks #14, #76, #101, and #186; 2019 picks #30, #114, and #118
    • Receive back: 2018 picks #18, #88, #248; 2019 pick #21
    So if you want to use Derwin James as a stand-in for pick #14, then what they essentially did was trade Derwin James, a 3rd round pick (Mason Rudolph), two 4th round picks (Dru Samia, Hjalte Froholdt), and a 6th round pick (Jacob Martin) for Jaire Alexander, Darnell Savage, a 5th (used in the trade up for Oren Burks), and a 7th (Kendall Donnerson).

    These players are all still incredibly young so it is not time to try and draw a final assessment of what was pulled off. However, all three players appear in the early going to be successful draft picks. James, despite being injured currently, is a game-changer at safety. Alexander has shown definite signs of being an All-Pro type of cornerback. Savage has been promising as a rookie. If in two years, James and Alexander are All-Pro type talents at their position and Savage is a very good free safety, then I would say that the Packers received the more valuable end of the deal. However, that all remains to be seen.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  25. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Couple thoughts:

    Had the Packers taken Derwin James instead of what they did, they would be taking different players with those picks they gave up. To truly rate the trade we would have to know the Packers board.

    I thought Alexander was a much bigger injury risk than James. I think that was a common opinion.

    I would rather have a CB than a safety if they are on the same level.

    I would take a HOF Safety over a AllPro CB.


    Funny thing. I did not like the trade back, though the we didn't get the value. Did not like the value of the trade up. But, both trades together, I thought we got good value.
     

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