OFFICIAL 2018 1ST ROUND PICK Jaire Alexander

[sschind]

Exactly this! A few mocks had us picking Alexander at #14. If we didn't move and we grabbed Alexander at #14, people would still be *****ing because "their" player didn't get picked. I'll admit, I was peeved as hell when we traded that far back, but I quickly settled down and realized there's no way they're staying there and they are moving up. They did and they gained a first round to grab a guy they might have took at #14 anyway.

People are *****ing about "injury prone" Alexander, and he's not. I wanted Derwin since he fell, but teams flagged his knee and people seem to have passed on him for this reason. I could see the Packers not wanting to draft a project player like Trumaine at such an important position knowing he'd take a few seasons to get major playing time. Ward went at #4 and the Packers went with their next ranked cornerback who is most likely going to be on the field in 2018.

There's still a chance we move back into the 3rd. We don't need all these picks. If we end up moving back into the 3rd, it's essentially like nothing happened and we gained a first round pick next year.

RELAX PEOPLE!

To be fair, in those mocks having us taking Alexander at 14 were Edmunds and James still available. I'm guessing not.

Still its a valid point simply by showing some people were willing to have us take Alexander that high.

As someone else pointed out, if Alexander was Gute's man all along he hit one out of the park with this one.

One last thing. If Gute had Alexander rated higher than James for whatever reason you have to respect that. His opinion is just as valid as anyone elses and probably much more than anyone here. Sure, most people probably had James rated higher but the bottom line is he went 1 pick before our guy did. Can you really say that everyone had him rated a lot higher.

Edit- I must have been writing this as you were posting Poker.

 

[gbgary]

I think had we traded down to say #10 last night to draft James, using our 3rd round pick to do so, some of the same people would have gone ballistic and questioned Gute on drafting a S so high and giving up a 3rd rounder in the process.

that's hindsight talking. there were some very unforeseen picks that pushed james to us and past us. at the time, had we moved up, everyone would have been thrilled. NO dangled a 1st rd pick at Gute and got him...and the team may have lost out big.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

it's only huge if there's a catastrophe in NO.

Once again, the Packers could most likely package their own first rounder and the one they acquired from the Saints to move into the top 10 next year. That's huge!!!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I also don't understand why people are downgrading the Saints #1 next year. They are one year removed from a 7-9 season and have a 39 year old QB. If Brees stays healthy there's no guarantee they go deep into the playoffs and if he's hurt, they could be a 4-12 team. Look at what happened to the Texans in 2017. Watson went down and they ended up giving the Browns the #4 overall pick.

Agreed. Toss in the Saints schedule last year and look at the wins and loses. Yes, they were 11-5, but the only win that impresses me is the one against the Falcons and even the Falcons weren't great last year.

http://www.nfl.com/schedules/2017/REG/SAINTS

 

[Spanky]

When did the Saints become of the Patriots of the NFC? Good grief. They are no lock to have a great season even if Brees stays healthy. They were 11-5 last season, not 14-2.

 

[gbgary]

Once again, the Packers could most likely package their own first rounder and the one they acquired from the Saints to move into the top 10 next year. That's huge!!!

that's definitely a possibility.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

that's hindsight talking. there were some very unforeseen picks that pushed james to us and past us. at the time, had we moved up, everyone would have been thrilled. NO dangled a 1st rd pick at Gute and got him...and the team may have lost out big.

and had James slipped to the Packers at #19, would we be having this conversation still? I think we probably would be with some.

 

[DoURant]

that's hindsight talking. there were some very unforeseen picks that pushed james to us and past us. at the time everyone would have been thrilled.

Yes, we all would have been thrilled, but it didn't happen, and Chargers got him. What if, what if...or like my dad would say "If grandma had balls, she'd be grandpa"

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Ok, so no doubt James should be a great addition to any defense that he joins. I really want to emphasize that-- I'm not trying to run down a great prospect just because my team passed on him.

That said, cornerback is a vastly more valuable position. The NFL tells us that with their wallets and with their draft picks. So for James to match anything like Ramsey's impact, he'd have to be otherworldly. Ramsey plays at the highest level at a top 4 position in terms of value.

Yes, CB is more valuable than strong safety...however, James isn't just a strong safety. He's also a slot corner and a linebacker. The ability to play James as a linebacker/safety/CB hybrid means that the team's nickel defense doesn't give anything up against the run or pass. James brings an enormous amount of variability to the defense that a CB does not.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

You are crazy, that kind of scenario could never happen, even in the biggest Debbie Downer's mind!

Pretty sure she's in the War Room on draft night.

 

[Mondio]

They let a guy go that could play safety, slot DB, and hybrid. They drafted Jones last year with that skill set. I'm not surprised they didn't feel they needed to draft another guy with similar skills.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

They let a guy go that could play safety, slot DB, and hybrid. They drafted Jones last year with that skill set. I'm not surprised they didn't feel they needed to draft another guy with similar skills.

James would have definitely been an upgrade over Jones though.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Because those fans assume James will turn into a Pro Bowler now that he isn't a Packer and that the pick we obtained from the Saints will no doubt be just another bust.

It basically comes down to this; will James and whoever gets drafted with the Packers third rounder be better than Alexander and whoever the Packers get at the end of the first round next year (I'm not counting on Brees getting hurt, the guy has been VERY durable in New Orleans). I think James is an amazing player who doesn't come along very often. Alexander could turn into a great corner, but there's nothing especially different from him and Ward, Hughes, Fitzpatrick, etc. That's not necessarily a knock against Alexander, just that James could be a unique, amazing player on defense.

 

[Dantés]

Yes, CB is more valuable than strong safety...however, James isn't just a strong safety. He's also a slot corner and a linebacker. The ability to play James as a linebacker/safety/CB hybrid means that the team's nickel defense doesn't give anything up against the run or pass. James brings an enormous amount of variability to the defense that a CB does not.

Yes, he's more versatile and yet, positionally, not as valuable. This is why Ward, a straight up CB, went 5th while Fitzpatrick, a S/CB/LB hybrid like James, went 11th.

Again, I have nothing bad to say about James. He's a stud. But if the choice is him by himself or Alexander a first next year, all things considered, I'll take the latter.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

They let a guy go that could play safety, slot DB, and hybrid. They drafted Jones last year with that skill set. I'm not surprised they didn't feel they needed to draft another guy with similar skills.

Comparing Jones to James is like comparing the draft prospects of Andrew Luck to Johny Manziel...

 

[Jerellh528]

FWIW Mike Lombardi rated Alexander over Ward. Mayock also said it during the broadcast last night, but looking at his position rankings from April 20th he had Ward first. So I'm not sure if he misspoke last night or changed his mind.

I'm very happy with what went down. I think Gutekunst got the guy he would have taken at 14 at 18 instead and picked up a #1 for next year. That's an "A" grade in my book.

I also don't understand why people are downgrading the Saints #1 next year. They are one year removed from a 7-9 season and have a 39 year old QB. If Brees stays healthy there's no guarantee they go deep into the playoffs and if he's hurt, they could be a 4-12 team. Look at what happened to the Texans in 2017. Watson went down and they ended up giving the Browns the #4 overall pick.

FWIW mayock wasn’t saying Alexander was number 1 over Ward, he was saying Alexander was his number 1 cb available at the time. Ward was gone already.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Yes, he's more versatile and yet, positionally, not as valuable. This is why Ward, a straight up CB, went 5th while Fitzpatrick, a S/CB/LB hybrid like James, went 11th.

Again, I have nothing bad to say about James. He's a stud. But if the choice is him by himself or Alexander a first next year, all things considered, I'll take the latter.

Positionally he can cover TEs and RBs more effectively than any outside corner (short of Peterson, Sherman, and other great, big corners). That's extremely valuable. James has legitimate pass rush ability; not just blitzing in the empty gap but honest-to-goodness beat-the-tackle pass rush moves. In today's NFL, a corner is more important than a safety who can't cover. However, get a safety than also be a slot corner and the difference in positional value is not that much.

 

[DoURant]

FWIW mayock wasn’t saying Alexander was number 1 over Ward, he was saying Alexander was his number 1 cb available at the time. Ward was gone already.

Actually, on Mayock's Big Board, Alexander was #12 and Ward was #15

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It basically comes down to this; will James and whoever gets drafted with the Packers third rounder be better than Alexander and whoever the Packers get at the end of the first round next year (I'm not counting on Brees getting hurt, the guy has been VERY durable in New Orleans). I think James is an amazing player who doesn't come along very often. Alexander could turn into a great corner, but there's nothing especially different from him and Ward, Hughes, Fitzpatrick, etc. That's not necessarily a knock against Alexander, just that James could be a unique, amazing player on defense.

Yup, people can frame this whole thing any which way they want right now to make an argument, but all those arguments are pretty much based on sheer "what ifs" and "I thinks". There are no guarantees as to how JA or James will turn out, no guarantees where the Saints will finish, no guaranteed what the Packers do with that pick or what is done by the Seahawks with the 3rd round pick.

I can frame the whole scenario to look REALLY good or I can frame it to look REALLY bad, but I would prefer to wait until the entire picture develops before I am 100% sure of the frame I want to put around it.

 

[gbgary]

James would have definitely been an upgrade over Jones though.

YUGE!

 

[Dantés]

Positionally he can cover TEs and RBs more effectively than any outside corner (short of Peterson, Sherman, and other great, big corners). That's extremely valuable. James has legitimate pass rush ability; not just blitzing in the empty gap but honest-to-goodness beat-the-tackle pass rush moves. In today's NFL, a corner is more important than a safety who can't cover. However, get a safety than also be a slot corner and the difference in positional value is not that much.

Yes, that is quite valuable. However, per the NFL, it's not near as valuable as covering wide receivers.

For the record, Alexander can play in the slot but was primarily an outside corner at Louisville and very good at it.

 

[GleefulGary]

It seems you tend to exaggerate a little bit. Let me put it this way, I would have definitely selected Ramsey over James if they ended up in the same draft class. I'm not convinced it was smart to prefer Alexander over him though.

It's because of positional value.

Elite CB's are far more valuable than elite safeties.

 

[GleefulGary]

FWIW mayock wasn’t saying Alexander was number 1 over Ward, he was saying Alexander was his number 1 cb available at the time. Ward was gone already.

On his big board Mayock had Alexander rated higher than Ward.

Big Board.

A mock draft is not a big board.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ocks-2018-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings

Alexander at #12, Ward at #15...so yes, he did have Alexander as his #1 CB.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Elite CB's are far more valuable than elite safeties.

Fine, I agree with this statement.

However it's possible that James ends up developing into an elite safety while Alexander doesn't reach that level at cornerback. I wonder who would be more valuable in that case after all.

 

[GleefulGary]

Fine, I agree with this statement.

However it's possible that James ends up developing into an elite safety while Alexander doesn't reach that level at cornerback. I wonder who would be more valuable in that case after all.

We're discussing James and Ramsay.