1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Announcement is LIVE: Read the Forum Post

OC-WHO?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by tano1998, Jan 14, 2006.

  1. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,903
    Ratings:
    +8
    I don't know about Bates as HC anymore after finding out his OC was Tom Rossley with the Gunslingers, I got worried!
     
  2. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    no zero, he woulda been a great HC. Phil said so.
     
  3. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,883
    Ratings:
    +5
    Sports Pundits always think they're the Gurus of this Sport and Athletes in general - doesn't mean it's worth a tinker's damn. You watch - pending McCarthy comes out on top - they'll switch what they said, or just pass it all by, changing the subject with decoy conversation - Michael Irvin does it all the time....
     
  4. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    yeah none of these sports pundits would ever flip-flop. that would be unheard of!
     
  5. Philtration

    Philtration Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,247
    Ratings:
    +9
    Hahahahaaa...that's funny. How many people on this very site were pushing for Bates as the head coach just a few days ago?

    McCarthy is chump change as a OC, that's a FACT.
    :roll:
     
  6. LambeauLeaper

    LambeauLeaper Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2005
    Messages:
    239
    Ratings:
    +0
    I like it mostly for what Jag has done with the O-line in Atlanta (zone blocking scheme, etc.) and that he stood up for what he believed and went against Sherrosley, even if it ended up getting him fired.

    I also kind of like people like Phil and other team's fans that hate what the Packers are doing with the coaching staff. I like it because, like Chicago this year, no one will expect them to do well and they will underestimate the Packers. To underestimate an enemy is one of the worst mistakes you can make.
     
  7. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    I was pushing for bates. whats your point?

    well his work with atlantas o-line was good, and his work with alge crumpler seemed to be ok. but since his OC stint sucked (gotta love having kevin barlow,ken dorsey, and alex smith on your offense) he is garbage. But your point wins because you used the rolling eyes smiley.. :bow:
     
  8. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,903
    Ratings:
    +8
    I was pushing for bates, until I read bates OC was rossley when he was HC of the gunslingers.

    McCarthy had a 3rd ranked offense in points scored in 2002 with the Saints. He also helped make A. Brooks pull off a magic act of appearing to be a QB for a couple years until his ego got bigger than his coachs. After Brooks stop listening to his coach his career has went downhill and fast!
     
  9. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    im gonna make a list of why mccarthy isnt bad, using your facts zero, the things ive mentioned, and any other things we learn on the way. Cuz "the 49ers sucked!" argument is kinda weak, when measured against the other things.
     
  10. Philtration

    Philtration Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,247
    Ratings:
    +9
    You really do flip flop all over the place don't you?
    One second you are asking me why I think that Bates would be a good HC and you say that he is better as a DC, then you admit that you wanted him as the HC yourself. If they had picked Bates as the top man you would have been dancing in the street and you know it.
    The real reason that you changed your mind is because you will blindly put a happy spin and any decision that they make. They could have wheeled out Pee-Wee Herman's cousin as the new HC and you would have wet your pants and hung his photo next to your bed.
    No, I guess that his lack of success in the NFL as an OC makes him the logical choice to move up to the next level based on.....what? Help me out here.
     
  11. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,903
    Ratings:
    +8
    Saints Offense
    2001 - Scoring (14th) Total Yards (10th)
    2002 - Scoring (3rd) Total Yards (19th)
    2003 - Scoring (14th) Total Yards (11th)
    2004 - Scoring (14th) Total Yards (15th)

    49ers Offense
    2005 - Scoring (30th) Total Yards (30th)

    Info obtained from NFL.com
     
  12. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    good try, but wrong.

    I wanted bates, because as a DC he was money, and his short stint in miami went well. Mostly I wanted Bates as HC because if he didnt get the job, he would probably not be working for the packers(which might happen).

    But, like ive said many times and I know youve seen it, but just 'forgot' it cuz it helps your argument...I give GMs and management (in all sports, of all my teams) the benefit of the doubt in these situations. There is probably a reason GB AND THE REST OF THE NFL TEAMS haven't hired Bates as a HC. I dont know what it is, but there is probably a reason. Like Zero has said, Bates was going to use Rossley. That is a good enough reason to not hire him as HC.

    I wanted Bates because he was familiar with the organization, and had a good reputation with favre. What I got was HC who is familiar with the organization, and has a good reputation with favre. The only difference is one is a defensive man, the other an offensive man.

    When the signing first happened, I was not happy. Then I looked up FACTS about the guy, and he did some good things, which gave reason for hope. But, as you would call it, 'blindly' putting a happy spin on any decision that made. If by blind you mean research, yes.

    But calling me a flip flopper and putting the image of me wetting my pants over a pee-wee herman signing is the more entertaining of the two, so I see why you went with that.


    Glad I could help
     
  13. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,903
    Ratings:
    +8
    Lovie Smith
    Chicago Bears (head coach) 2004-present;
    St. Louis Rams (assistant head coach/defensive coordinator) 2003;
    St. Louis Rams (defensive coordinator) 2001-02;

    Rams Defense
    2001 Scoring (7th) Total Yards (3rd)
    2002 Scoring (24th) Total Yards (13th)
    2003 Scoring (17th) Total Yards (16th)


    Only three years as a coordinator then got a HC job and I say he did pretty good this year with the Bears.
     
  14. LambeauLeaper

    LambeauLeaper Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2005
    Messages:
    239
    Ratings:
    +0
    I think the problem is that everyone wants to put everything in black and white. McCarthy was "driven out of town" in NO. SF's offense sucked last year. Aaron Brooks sucks or even that McCarthy drew blood from a stone with him. It's SOOO easy to take little tidbits and use it as a case for your argument, whatever your argument may be. The truth is that there's WAY too many variables involved to say one way or another. There's coaches that have had previous success that fail miserably with a new team (let's see..Ditka from Chicago to NO). There's coaches that have been really bad in one place and go on to succeed brilliantly with other teams (hhmmm...Belichick from Cleveland to NE).

    I'm so sick of people using arguments from the media to state their case. How often are these guys even right?? Not very. Look at Mel Kiper, he's considered THE "Draft Expert" and I'd be willing to bet he is wrong 4 times out of 5.

    Honestly, I made it clear in no uncertain terms that I wasn't a big fan of the McCarthy hiring. But, after reading, listening to press conferences, etc. I've begun to appreciate something. Sometimes it not always about track record, but what you see in a person. Maybe TT just wants someone he can control, but maybe he sees something that no one else does. Afterall, HE'S the one that interviewed him. No one else even interviewed McCarthy as far as I know. If anything I admire TT for having the balls to put everything on the line (support from fans mostly) and make a "questionable" move.

    Maybe this move will prove to be "genius", maybe it will prove to be outright stupid, but I like the fact that TT is willing to take a chance. Because THAT'S how great things happen. How often do you see great things happen when the "safe road" is taken?
     
  15. Philtration

    Philtration Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,247
    Ratings:
    +9
    Let's see....There is a reason that Bates has not been hired as a HC, well I did not hear of a single team considering McCarthy for a HC position either did you?

    You wanted a HC that was familiar with the organization and had a good reputation with the QB who may never play another game for the Packers.

    I would bet that there are more teams considering Bates for a HC position right now then you want to believe and that they would not have given McCarthy so much as a token interview.
     
  16. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    [quote="Philtration

    You wanted a HC that was familiar with the organization and had a good reputation with the QB who may never play another game for the Packers.

    I would bet that there are more teams considering Bates for a HC position right now then you want to believe and that they would not have given McCarthy so much as a token interview.
    [/quote]

    sounds like iiiiiinside information(I watch too much ATH) +2

    actually, it sounds like speculation.
     
  17. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,903
    Ratings:
    +8
    So because no one saught after him as the Packers that means he's not good?

    Steve Spurrier, Rashaan Salaam, Andre Ware, Ki Jana Carter etc the list goes on of those who were heavily saught after and bombed out.

    The point: You make decisions on other aspects rather than who wants who the most, oh goodie thats who I'll take! That's lazy and not doing your job as a GM or Coach.

    Listen to the full 47 minute Press Conf with the formal hiring of McCarthy you will hear Ted did a very thorough search and believes he found his man.

    I want to say I 'believe' I have to see it first. I sure won't be saying the guy is a flop before he even coachs his first freakin game.

    I am confident we got a guy who will do a good job. Better than Sherman did at the very least.


    psst can we start the draft and skip the camps an get to the season??
     
  18. Philtration

    Philtration Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,247
    Ratings:
    +9
    Other than his silly "mission statement" and throwing out tired clichés like "Focus on the prize" and "Chemistry" and "Stability" what do you see in McCarthy that makes you feel that he was a good choice?
    What was the big hurry? Where they trying to look like they were on the ball because the Vikings went out and got the man they wanted right away?
    Saying that Favre thinks that he is a swell guy is not much of an argument you know. And please don’t say it’s because he worked for the Packers before either because that is a really poor reason.
     
  19. LambeauLeaper

    LambeauLeaper Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2005
    Messages:
    239
    Ratings:
    +0
    What exactly is the track record for coaches that were in high demand by other teams? I'm willing to bet it's all over the board. I really doubt it matters how many teams want a guy or how many don't want to interview a certain guy. It's more about how he fits into your organization and what you feel you can accomplish by surrounding yourself with people that YOU believe in. THIS is what I believe TT did. Call it stupid, foolish, wishful thinking, etc., but the truth is there is plenty of opportunity for McCarthy to fail or succeed. Only time will tell.
     
  20. Philtration

    Philtration Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,247
    Ratings:
    +9
    You are correct about time will tell. I personally feel that TT picked this guy because he will have him wrapped around his finger. I see some people saying that it was a bold move. On the contrary. It was a safe and boring choice for TT.
     
  21. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,903
    Ratings:
    +8
    The hurry? He interviewed ... Ted I should clarify that, Ted interviewed seven canidates with an interview lasting from six, seven and even TWELVE hours long!! The only interview I ever had that lasted longer than an hour was the 'interview' to join the Marines that was six hours long. The process was nearly two weeks long.

    What makes me think he is a good choice? First, he's not Sherman or Wade Phillips. Second, he gives off the impression he's a no bullshiot guy. He has a plan. He said about William Henderson 'your going to be lead blocking for him next season' meaning Ahman Green. That may seem like nothing, but to me that sounds like a coach who is confident those two free agents will be signed back on the roster. Mike doesn't call his offense the west coast offense, he calls it a system! Theres more but I'm struggling to stay awake at the moment.


    oh and he has a smokin hot daughter
     
  22. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    reeeaaallly? See we need more topics like THIS.
     
  23. LambeauLeaper

    LambeauLeaper Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2005
    Messages:
    239
    Ratings:
    +0
    LOL, what!?! How was this a safe choice? TT knew damn full well that most Packer fans wanted Jim Bates as the coach. Bates and Favre have a great relationship already. It's been said that Bates called Favre 2 days before his interview explaining what his plans were for next season and Favre was basically jumping up and down. On the contrary, McCarthy has a questionable resume, and like you yourself said - not a single other team had him on their radar. But this was a safe pick?

    Do you really think TT thinks that he's untouchable? He knows that if these questionable moves don't work out that he'll be the next one out the door. I think you're forgetting or are ignorant of how this franchise is run.
     
  24. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    flip flopper
     
  25. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,903
    Ratings:
    +8
    I'm confused. I thought selecting a coach who was heavily sought after would have been the safe choice, not someone who was not sought after by anyone.

    How is McCarthy the safe choice? Are you saying TT selected the guy who is gonna give him a championship as a GM?
     

Share This Page