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Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by ivo610, Aug 17, 2012.

  1. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  2. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Deep cleansing breaths. Place your head between your knees. Kiss your cheeks goodbye.
     
  3. lambeaulambo

    lambeaulambo Cheesehead

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    Another thought I had last night watching our defense...everyone said don't panic on our D last year, and the same ugly play is still occurring...no pressure up front. I believe this D will start to come around mid season, due to the youth in the mix.
     
  4. Jordyruns

    Jordyruns Cheesehead

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    Completely agree, Perry will have a steep learning curve but about halfway through the year he should take off. Worthy should have gradual improvement throughout the year. House is essentially a first year guy now and Woodson is still learning a new position so there will be a learning curve there as well. I'm also hoping that Daniels and Mcmillin will eventually pick up the scheme and be an Alden Smith type player who comes in a few times a game but always makes a big impact while they are in.

    Hayward I think will need another year after what i have seen so far.

    I still am concerned though
     
  5. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    I can't even read all this stuff tonight. I was going to give it a few days and I will. The sky is not falling folks. It's going to be allright people. It's preseason for heaven's sake. It's nice to have victories but there's alot to sort out on this roster so there was a ton of people who will not play regular season giving poor performances and groups who will never play again not getting it done. It's FINE!
    And by the way, Harrell is not the worst backup QB in the NFL. You'll see.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    The offense didn't look so good in the game. I have no doubt, when the season starts, it will again be one of the elite offenses in NFL history.

    I was actually encouraged by what I saw in the game.

    I thought the following rookies looked like they will impact this year: Heyward, Perry, and Mcmillian.
    Worthy and Daniels should be solid with a chance of becoming impact players.

    Also Muir looked very impressive and Tramon and Raji both appear to be more like their 2010 forms. Also, I was very impressed with Newhouse. I thought if he could top out as averages, we would be lucky. Now I'm thinking he is already average with a good chance of becoming an impact player.

    I think the defense will be much improved this season, and I'm not going to worry about how they may appear in a meaningless preseason game. If I recall, Capers spent his preseason looking at players in different situations rather than putting effort into having an effective defense.

    The biggest negative for me was Harrell. MM may say he did better than he appeared, my issue was his lack of confidence and leadership. I thought he looked tentative and tense. He needs to relax and take command. I'm not sure he has it in him to be an NFL QB.

    Also - I thought the refs called a very good game. Don't know if I saw any errors on their part. Typically, with the refs last season, there would always seem to be 2-3 calls or non-calls per game where I would be scratching my head.
     
  7. azrsx05

    azrsx05 Cheesehead

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    I honestly think Capers needs to be fired. He is over complicating this defense and the guys are always getting out of positions, mis reads, or confusion on who is covering who. I always see guys signaling plays right before the ball gets snapped and then they just scatter. I hope Capers is gone after this year. Never been a fan of his scheme.
     
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  8. azrsx05

    azrsx05 Cheesehead

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    Also not a fan of going for the big play all the time. They always go go INTs or fumbles instead of going for tackles and teams keep getting chunks of yards all the time.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    I came away with neither positive or negative notions in NEITHER of these games. I used to do that to myself, but (for lack of a better term), outgrew doing that to myself. I ascribe to the notion that you play as you practice - and preseason is nothing more than "practice"...which brings me to my point in the form of a question. Perhaps someone can put some perspective on this for me because I've been unable to do so on my own.

    Ok, so here goes. Obviously, Rodgers is going to see limited action in preseason. The coaching staff knows what he can do so, they're going to use this time to gauge Harrell and Coleman in game situations, plus, Rodgers is NOT to be exposed to unnecessary abuse. Fair enough. So if the goal is to gauge Harrell's progress and/or skills and/or ability to step in and run this offense well enough to win if something does happen to Rodgers... Why on god's green earth does the coaching staff pull the entire starting unit (the O-line in particular) to see how Harrell reacts with live bullets flying? How can the coaching staff evaluate how this kid is going to perform in a 'fireman' situation - running Aaron Rodgers' offense if Aaron Rodgers' guy's are all planted on the planks?

    The rationale doesn't escape me. You don't want to expose your starters to injury -- sure, ok... I understand that, but if you're truly evaluating what this guy can and can't do ... shouldn't you be putting him behind the line that is going to be charged with protecting his @55? Putting him with the guys who are supposed to catch his throws? In my lowly opinion, sticking the guy behind the second team O-line against Cleveland's starting defense is an absolute effort in futility if your goal is to see how the guy will play if forced to take the reins of Rodgers' team.

    Don't get me wrong ... I'm certainly not an apologist for the performances I've seen thusfar ... it just seems to me that the results were all but predestined. I can't imagine a scenario where this kid could have produced any other result.

    One other observation. I'm thinking that the Packers should expand their QB camp concept to include a run blocking camp for all O-linemen. It was an absolute farce watching Alex Green run into the white wall that was the Cleveland defensive line. The Pack's lineman are coming off of the ball way-the-hell too high...they're coming off shoulder level, essentially 75-80% upright from their stance. This is an UGLY remnant of the supposedly phased out ZBS --- doesn't matter WHO they have in the backfield, Walter Payton would be getting stuffed. Campen should know better and should be inserting himself in McCarthy's ear - it's not that the Pack's o-line can't run block, it's more that they haven't been coached up to run block. The Pack have the right guys in place...their technique just sucks across the board.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    weeds I mostly agree, IMO the only thing preseason games are useful for is evaluating individual players and even then it’s difficult because opponents are usually playing “vanilla” schemes and may be testing non-starters even from the beginning of the game. However IMO a good example this season where an early evaluation is justified is Davon House. IMO he looked damn good and if he gets 100% healthy (which appears unlikely this season) I think he’s the answer opposite Williams, even though that’s not much evidence upon which to base an opinion. Where we disagree is IMO the backup QB usually does get snaps with most of the starting O. I think that happened after Rodgers’ early exit in the first fake game but I deleted it and don’t care enough to research it now. And now in practice I’m sure he’s getting snaps with the first team against the scout team so the coaching staff has a lot of plays to base their evaluation on even if we don’t. I also disagree about Harrell not being able to have performed better. There were far too many plays IMO where he had time to throw and still made a bad decision or a bad throw. But he only has one QB camp under his belt. As to a run blocking camp, IMO if Newhouse stays healthy and pass blocks as he did vs. the Browns (except for the first play), I think the run blocking will be good enough to allow for another elite season on offense.
    Capers has been the Packers DC for three seasons now. In ’09 his D was 7th in scoring D, allowing 18.6 pts/game. In ’10: 2nd in scoring D allowing 15 pts/game and last season 19th in scoring D allowing 22.4 pts./game. Beyond that in the passing league that is today’s NFL, his Ds have finished first in the league with 30 INTs, second in the league with 24 INTs, and first in the league with 31 INTs respectively. Add in the fumbles recovered and Capers’ Ds have averaged forcing 2.3 turnovers per game. So in his three years in Green Bay his Ds have averaged surrendering 18.7 pts/game while McCarthy’s offenses have averaged 29.3 pts/game. (All stats are regular season results.)

    The D was bad last season, no doubt about that. Certainly Capers shares responsibility for that. But do you think there was an effective pass rusher he left on the bench? Should he have benched Williams because of his injured shoulder? Does Thompson share any of the blame? Should Capers be judged on his entire body of work in Green Bay or just one season? Just curious: How could a Packers fan not be a fan of his scheme during the 2010 season?
     
  11. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    If we open the season 3-3 there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth, but from there the schedule gets a lot easier and sets up for a back half run.
     
  12. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    I wish there was a "hilarious" vote button. I know azrsx, all these guys running around looks so complicated, they should just arm the defense with ballistas (ballistae?) and cannon and have at the stadium, the siege would be over in a short time. One of the funnier posts in awhile.
     
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  13. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    I'm responding without reading everyone else's response so I dont' know if someone already addressed this weeds.
    Because those are real life NFL situations, you lose guys, things change, it's never the same from game to game. If you can keep control, if you can manage to keep the team focused in the right direction you're doing your job. I think it's okay for the coaches to look at these tapes and evaluate him.
    In practice he's done well but those are against his teammates. I think they are learning alot about Harrell and they already knew alot before these games. Everybody would look differnent as a backup with all the things our offense can do. There is absolutely no question they are testing his mettle and he's looked good. I honestly believe they are looking him over during these tough times and did intentionally put him into rough situations to see how he'd play.
    Actually no, I think we all know what happened with the 1st team offense was directed by our 2 QB. Now everyone things we have a "system" QB and anybody can throw for 300 yards and 4 TDs but Packer fans know better. I think the Packers are far, far beyond the evaluation of Harrel as a short term talent. I could be wrong but it seems they have some confidence in this guy.
     
  14. Powarun

    Powarun Big Bay Blues fan

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    I tend to like the go big or go broke scheme. While I do hate it when we lose, it helps define the Packers as a finesse team. The downside is it leaves us with less fingernails.
     
  15. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    All that was proved was that he was pretty crappy behind a second tier (not just second string) O-line and 2nd and 3rd tier receivers. If I was chief-bottle-washer, and in NO way am I qualified to make such a judgment, I'd want to know if QB2 could run THIS offense if QB1 went down. I wouldn't care about the 'system QB' crap - and that's what it is.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Chicocheese

    Chicocheese Cheesehead

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    I don't know about the rest of you guys, but in my area of the country I am getting all kinds of heat. Especially since I am in 49ers country, everyone is saying that I should be worried. I feel the opposite. I feel like the 1st team is really doing well, but the 2nd team is falling wayyyyy short. Right now I don't see a 16-0 or a 15-1 season, but I do see a nice 12-4 season. Whatever it takes to win the Super Bowl.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    I "agreed" with you weeds. What I'm saying is that they can probably take from his performance as it is and decide if he can make it work with the 1's. I can't and probably most fans can't but I have to believe they like what they are seeing for what that's worth.
    Let me put it this way, I'm not running with blinders on, I've just come to expect excellence from this team and they seem to mostly find a way to deliver. If what they do fails I'll be right alongside of you complaining they should have seen the failure coming but I don't remember having a ton of confidence in Matt Flynn until the Patriots game... then he became godly.
    Even Rodgers TD was more Jordy than Aaron but I'm not going to sweat it. I think we'll see Harrell in the KC preseason game with the ones a bit and we can see what we see. What's better with a Graham than honey and if he gets a series or two with the honey of our receiving corps we might be relieved.
     
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  18. thepackers1fan4

    thepackers1fan4 Pack attack 4 ever!

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    I thought the same exact thing, our defense definitely needs to pick it up because we cant just rely solely on the offense for another entire season.
     
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  19. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    I know you were. I"m with you 100%. If I gave any other impression, I apologize and promise that I will increase my dietary fiber intake. ;)
     
  20. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    I'm scared to ask what change that will make. Dietary fiber is your business weeds, even if you feel compelled to share. Go Grains!
     
  21. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    lol...This is from last year..

    People always go off on deep end for pre season
     
  22. Dan115

    Dan115 Cheesehead

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    fire campen,capers and crosby NOW!!!
     
  23. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    And Slocum, and the conditioning crew, and Trgovac, and Moss and take the play calling from MM. Maybe fire TT.
     
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  24. mhnessie

    mhnessie Cheesehead

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    And how about MM ? Yes, fire MM now ! :eek::D
     
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  25. PFanCan

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    LT- you got me! I was reading through the list, glancing at the dates and thinking that most of the posts were just from a week or two ago. I did not notice that the year was 2012. Up until your post, I had no clue that this was from a year ago, except for a couple comments about Hayward and Newhouse that I thought were odd.

    Too funny.
     

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