NFL Team in London?

[red4tribe]

There will be a Team in London. That will be the beachhead for growing the NFL into Europe. 250 million potential ticket holders. They will most likely be based in the states on the east coast and Travel to London for home games. Toronto would take away from the Bills market so I don't see that happening, they also already have a CFL team. With the growing popularity of American Football in Europe, there could come a day when they are a completely seperate but affiliated league and the Superbowl would become and international event.

We will be getting the next team or teams. Won't be an expansion. I expect the Rams to come back and either the Chargers or the Raiders sharing the new stadium with them.

How many Bills fans are there really in Toronto anyway? I mean, it's only a two hour drive away but it still involves crossing an international boundary. A completely unscientific survey conducted by myself shows that there are 18,000 people in Toronto who have "liked" the facebook page of the Pittsburgh Steelers, and only 17,000 fans in Toronto who have liked the facebook page of the Bills. The Sabers and Maple Leafs make due despite the closeness. It's still further than DC and Baltimore. And I would imagine that the NFL could complete with the CFL.

The way I look at it is that it's a huge jump to go from an entirely American based NFL to a European/American NFL. Canada would be a test to see if an NFL team can sustain a fan base in another country, and if it can, then consider London. I would also imagine that NFL players would be more inclined to live in Canada anyway, given the proximity to the United States. I'm not saying that Toronto is where an NFL team would have to be located, but it makes the most sense, given the success of other American sport teams there and because it's the largest city in Canada. Montreal would be another option, also a large city, but then you get into the issue of having a language barrier between fans and players and players not wanting to live somewhere where they don't speak the language.

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

How many Bills fans are there really in Toronto anyway? I mean, it's only a two hour drive away but it still involves crossing an international boundary. A completely unscientific survey conducted by myself shows that there are 18,000 people in Toronto who have "liked" the facebook page of the Pittsburgh Steelers, and only 17,000 fans in Toronto who have liked the facebook page of the Bills. The Sabers and Maple Leafs make due despite the closeness. It's still further than DC and Baltimore. And I would imagine that the NFL could complete with the CFL.

The way I look at it is that it's a huge jump to go from an entirely American based NFL to a European/American NFL. Canada would be a test to see if an NFL team can sustain a fan base in another country, and if it can, then consider London. I would also imagine that NFL players would be more inclined to live in Canada anyway, given the proximity to the United States. I'm not saying that Toronto is where an NFL team would have to be located, but it makes the most sense, given the success of other American sport teams there and because it's the largest city in Canada. Montreal would be another option, also a large city, but then you get into the issue of having a language barrier between fans and players and players not wanting to live somewhere where they don't speak the language.

I hear what your saying but there must be a reason the NFL isn't looking to Canada. I am assuming they have info that would show a team in Canada wouldn't work. I have always thought a merger with the CFL would be a natural expansion but I'm assuming the NFL feels there may be too many hurdles to make it work or that the Canucks would not support American football.

 

[scotscheese]

i don't think and NFL team based in Europe would be right. i think 3 regular season games in the UK is fine, but, for obvious reasons, I'd like to see one of them in Scotland(Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh would be ideal choice, & former home of the Scottish Claymores NFL Europe team)

a re-do of NFL europe would be great IMO, though there is already a british league at amateur level, i'm going out to have a trial this weekend for my local team the Aberdeen roughnecks www.aberdeenroughnecks.co.uk/index.html

 

[searmh]

nfl fans in the uk have a team to support, so who are gonna support the london team? i can imagine to many current NFL fans simply swapping their allegance to a london team. At the moment a lot of fans attend from all over the uk as the games are still special and "one offs" but i cant imagine fans will flocvk from uk to watch 8 home games for a team they dont really support. For many many years the only/majority of fans would be british away team fans. I suppot GB and dont really want to watch 2 other teams play. A one off attendance would be fine but the money to pay week in week out to see a team i dont support aint happening.

Id like to know if any uk GB fans on here would pay to travel, overnight stays in london (maybe), tickets, food etc to see your second team play 8 times a year?

 

[PackCrazed4]

The only reason I feel a London team wouldn't work is the logistics. I have an argument with my dad once a month about this very subject. He thinks its plausible to have the team travel and stay in the States for 4 straight road games, then go home for 4 straight home games, with the away teams traveling to London receiving a bye in between. To me, it seems silly and an awful lot of trouble just to rationalize having a team in Europe. Where would the team hang out while they are stateside? Would they have a "home away from home" practice facility and hotel? Why even bother then?

Then he also tries to frame it in the context of time zones. New York to LA is 3 hours; London to New York/East coast is 5 hours, only 2 more hours, so theoretically its not completely outrageous to have them play a normal week's schedule against the AFC or NFC East teams. Still, it's excessive travel EVERY time they play, at least with the divisions most teams will barely leave their region and only have to adjust to playing distance games every now and then.

Point is, with a sport that so avidly stresses consistency and requires an incredible amount of attention to health and physical awareness, the NFL is just not built to be a traveling road show like baseball, basketball, and soccer can be.

 

[scotscheese]

there was just a small piece on the radio i'm listening saying that a lLondon based NFL team would be worth £100 million to the UK economy, shame that the rest of the uk would see less than none of that

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

The only reason I feel a London team wouldn't work is the logistics. I have an argument with my dad once a month about this very subject. He thinks its plausible to have the team travel and stay in the States for 4 straight road games, then go home for 4 straight home games, with the away teams traveling to London receiving a bye in between. To me, it seems silly and an awful lot of trouble just to rationalize having a team in Europe. Where would the team hang out while they are stateside? Would they have a "home away from home" practice facility and hotel? Why even bother then?

Then he also tries to frame it in the context of time zones. New York to LA is 3 hours; London to New York/East coast is 5 hours, only 2 more hours, so theoretically its not completely outrageous to have them play a normal week's schedule against the AFC or NFC East teams. Still, it's excessive travel EVERY time they play, at least with the divisions most teams will barely leave their region and only have to adjust to playing distance games every now and then.

Point is, with a sport that so avidly stresses consistency and requires an incredible amount of attention to health and physical awareness, the NFL is just not built to be a traveling road show like baseball, basketball, and soccer can be.

East coast to LA is more like 5 hours. I Think the team would have to be based in the states and travel to their home games. Maybe have training facilities in London and the states for back to back home games. I can't see alot of NFL players wanting to live there. I will be interested to see how they work out the taxes. The UK guys can be more specific about this but 3o years ago income taxes were pretty steep and there was a very large VAT.

The most important thing to remember is a team in London gives the NFL a beachhead in Europe. A market of 250 million people. It may take 30 years or more but I would expect there could be NFL teams in all the major European cities, except maybe Paris.

 

[Forget Favre]

I hear what your saying but there must be a reason the NFL isn't looking to Canada. I am assuming they have info that would show a team in Canada wouldn't work. I have always thought a merger with the CFL would be a natural expansion but I'm assuming the NFL feels there may be too many hurdles to make it work or that the Canucks would not support American football.

For one thing the CFL has three downs instead of four.

 

[HardRightEdge]

The talk continues of putting and NFL team in London. Reggie Bush believes that they'll have the Super Bowl there soon too. NFL and British officials are saying within possibly 10 years there will be an NFL franchise in London. Thoughts? Good? Bad?

Personally, I think it's ridiculous, and that if they want to go international they should go to Toronto first. Already has a successful NBA and MLB team, closer cultural similarities, Eastern Time Zone and so on.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ie-bush-nfl-team-super-bowl-will-be-in-london

The Buffalo/Toronto market cannot support 2 teams. Unless the new ownership in Buffalo goes back on their commitment to keep the team in town, which is not likely, Toronto is off the table indefinitely.

As far as London is concerned, the travel times and time zone differences to anywhere but the US eastern seaboard are problematic...there's an 8 hour difference between the west coast and London which messes with TV scheduling and the jet lag is killer.

 

[HardRightEdge]

How many Bills fans are there really in Toronto anyway? I mean, it's only a two hour drive away but it still involves crossing an international boundary. A completely unscientific survey conducted by myself shows that there are 18,000 people in Toronto who have "liked" the facebook page of the Pittsburgh Steelers, and only 17,000 fans in Toronto who have liked the facebook page of the Bills. The Sabers and Maple Leafs make due despite the closeness. It's still further than DC and Baltimore. And I would imagine that the NFL could complete with the CFL.

Between Toronto and the Buffalo metro area lie Hamilton (population 520,000), St. Catherines (population 132,000), and a whole bunch of other towns. The Toronto/Buffalo corridor looks like the Milwaukee/Chicago corridor...mostly packed with population. While the border crossings are no treat (limited and by bridge over the Niagara River), the Canadians are used to it...they cross in large numbers to Niagara county for the outlet malls, golf courses, the Indian reservation for cheap gas and cigarettes...and also for Bills and Sabers games. In fact, the Sabers arena is packed with Canadians when the Maple Leafs come to town because of the much cheaper and more available tickets.

One of the key considerations in citing a new Bills stadium (which will get more serious with the new ownership) is proximity to a Canadian bridge crossing.

Facebook, lest one needs reminding, is not reality.

Buffalo's US market is small...only about 1.5 million population before you get to the exurbs. The Bills have trouble selling out when the weather gets cold. They need the incremental Canadian fan base. You cannot compare DC/Baltimore to Toronto/Buffalo...because the Buffalo metro area is much smaller than either of those US metro areas.

A team in Toronto presupposes the NFL's abandonment of the Buffalo market, of this you can be sure.

By the way, the Toronto market has 2 CFL teams, though I'm sure the people of Hamilton prefer to think of themselves as a separate entity. They consistently sell out the 12,000 seat Ron Joyce Stadium.

 

[Forget Favre]

For one thing the CFL has three downs instead of four.

This gets a "funny" rating?

 

[HardRightEdge]

This gets a "funny" rating?

The idea that 3 vs. 4 downs is somehow a key impediment to an NFL / CFL merger is funny. I thought you were being ironic. Somehow, I'd think the markets, the stadiums and the talent level might have something to do with it.

Have you ever been to Regina, Saskatchewan? They cover their expressway with rock for the winter. Their biggest industry is windshield replacement.

The only markets in Canada large enough to support a team are Toronto and Montreal. Toronto won't get one as long as there is a team in Buffalo for the reasons stated above. Montreal failed with the Expos, and the Alouettes put only about 20,000 butts per game in their 25,000 seat stadium as it is. They'd need a dome, and I don't see anybody putting up a $1 billion+ for a grand experiment that nobody seems all that interested in.

Now, if you could move Edmonton 100 miles closer to Calgary and put a domed stadium at the mid-point you might have something.

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

For one thing the CFL has three downs instead of four.

and a 20 yard end zone.

 

[Forget Favre]

The idea that 3 vs. 4 downs is somehow a key impediment to an NFL / CFL merger is funny. I thought you were being ironic. Somehow, I'd think the markets, the stadiums and the talent level might have something to do with it.

Have you ever been to Regina, Saskatchewan? They cover their expressway with rock for the winter. Their biggest industry is windshield replacement.

The only markets in Canada large enough to support a team are Toronto and Montreal. Toronto won't get one as long as there is a team in Buffalo for the reasons stated above. Montreal failed with the Expos, and the Alouettes put only about 20,000 butts per game in their 25,000 seat stadium as it is. They'd need a dome, and I don't see anybody putting up a $1 billion+ for a grand experiment that nobody seems all that interested in.

Now, if you could move Edmonton 100 miles closer to Calgary and put a domed stadium at the mid-point you might have something.

I was trying to point out how the only rule difference that I know of could be a hindrance to any CFL mergers.
I don't know. Are there other difference in the rules? And if there were or as it is with 3 vs 4 downs one organization would have to give in to the other. I doubt the NFL would reduce one down and would the CFL and it's fans want to have a fourth one and be willing to go along with any other rule changes if needed?

If the NFL looked into the same factors as you, HRE, are pointing out then that could explain why they would rather go across the pond than to our northern neighbors.
London is a hassle but Canada is a bigger hassle for them?
I think American fans would appreciate playing in Canada better.

 

[Forget Favre]

and a 20 yard end zone.

I'm pretty sure you mean by length from goal line to the back, right?
Because I think the field is a bit wider too isn't it?

 

[scotscheese]

For one thing the CFL has three downs instead of four.

three downs? what madness is this???

 

[PackCrazed4]

East coast to LA is more like 5 hours. I Think the team would have to be based in the states and travel to their home games. Maybe have training facilities in London and the states for back to back home games. I can't see alot of NFL players wanting to live there. I will be interested to see how they work out the taxes. The UK guys can be more specific about this but 3o years ago income taxes were pretty steep and there was a very large VAT.

The most important thing to remember is a team in London gives the NFL a beachhead in Europe. A market of 250 million people. It may take 30 years or more but I would expect there could be NFL teams in all the major European cities, except maybe Paris.

I was referring to the time zone shift, not the travel distance. It's actually only a 4 hour time difference between New York and London, and a 3 hour difference between LA and New York, so they are almost on the same playing field in terms of time zone-adjustment. But, like I said, traveling every week and having to adjust to a time zone shift on a consistent basis would screw with their body clocks - not feasible.

 

[red4tribe]

I was referring to the time zone shift, not the travel distance. It's actually only a 4 hour time difference between New York and London, and a 3 hour difference between LA and New York, so they are almost on the same playing field in terms of time zone-adjustment. But, like I said, traveling every week and having to adjust to a time zone shift on a consistent basis would screw with their body clocks - not feasible.

It's actually a 5 hour difference between London and New York 51 weeks of the year. This week just happens to be the 1 week it's a four hour difference, since the UK started daylight savings times last weekend, and we don't start until this weekend.

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

I was referring to the time zone shift, not the travel distance. It's actually only a 4 hour time difference between New York and London, and a 3 hour difference between LA and New York, so they are almost on the same playing field in terms of time zone-adjustment. But, like I said, traveling every week and having to adjust to a time zone shift on a consistent basis would screw with their body clocks - not feasible.

Ok, gotcha, That's why I think they will be based in the states. But it will be a challange for the schedule makers. No playing in SEA one week and London the next. Probably 3 or 4 in London and 3 or 4 on the road. Going to be challenging but it's going to happen.

 

[Passepartout]

Really think NFL belongs in America. Just like soccer called in the USA, or the way Europe calls it, their own version of Football. NFL is really an American sport! That's my story and I am sticking to it!

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Really think NFL belongs in America. Just like soccer called in the USA, or the way Europe calls it, their own version of Football. NFL is really an American sport! That's my story and I am sticking to it!

Its not as WE call it. Football or as you Americans insist on calling it Soccer, came first.

 

[Sky King]

Profit will rule the day. Sentiment will not.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Profit will rule the day. Sentiment will not.

And as a European, I say Amen to that.

 

[PackerDNA]

Haven't read the whole thread, but buggybill, I'd like your thoughts on how the games in London have been received/gone over this season.

 

[profile_removed]

This won't happen! Ratings for the 8 a.m. ET start will be down once it becomes a thing, why? 1.) Religion is important to a lot of people and some religions do not have Saturday night services. 2.) Who wants to get up at 7 a.m. on a Sunday to see their football team play, they would rather be asleep for another 3 hours!