NFC North 2025

[gopkrs]

And what about O line? If they don't open some hojes against dallas; well you can't only blame the players imho

 

[gopkrs]

I believe this week looks very bittersweet. Cowboys on the road. But with a decimated offensive line we may make their defense look top 10. Yards are not going to come easy even though this is not the Browns. And stopping the Cowboy offense is not like stopping the Browns. Prescott has a good track record. The last time I recall having an offensive line in this shape may have been 2015 when we went into Arizona during the season. Rodgers was running for his life and we got torched 38-8. We had to get him out of there so he could stand the next week.

Everyone talks about a decimated O line. Sounds like an excuse to me. Weren't they out there in the Washington game? And each one is supposedly a good player.

 

[Voyageur]

When you see that a play will work except for the fact that the offensive line can't hold off the rush long enough for the play to develop, it's time to look in your playbook for plays that can neutralize that rush. It could be quick passes, even draw plays, but one of the main weapons is rolling out away from pressure. For some reason, the Packers were refusing to roll Love out on plays, thinking that they would essentially control the pocket and they never did.

No matter how good you think your game plan is, you'd best be prepared to modify it or switch plans at any point during a game. You can't win games without being flexible.

 

[Magooch]

To be fair you could probably make a case that the Cowboys OL situation is as bad if not worse than ours. They already have Beebe on IR and it sounds like Booker will go there as well. Steele and Guyton, IIRC have graded out in the 50-60 range per PFF out of ~70 eligible tackles. Overall Dallas OL allowed 19 pressures vs the Bears.

On the flip side, look last week...Braxton Jones LT for the Bears had allowed 13 pressures in first two weeks. Most in the league in that span. He allowed ZERO vs Dallas. Dallas had multiple players with a 0% pass rush win rate last week. And they are something like 30th in sack rate.

We may have more losses along the OL in terms of numbers, but I would still MUCH rather be in our shoes than Dallas' right now...

 

[Voyageur]

To be fair you could probably make a case that the Cowboys OL situation is as bad if not worse than ours. They already have Beebe on IR and it sounds like Booker will go there as well. Steele and Guyton, IIRC have graded out in the 50-60 range per PFF out of ~70 eligible tackles. Overall Dallas OL allowed 19 pressures vs the Bears.

On the flip side, look last week...Braxton Jones LT for the Bears had allowed 13 pressures in first two weeks. Most in the league in that span. He allowed ZERO vs Dallas. Dallas had multiple players with a 0% pass rush win rate last week. And they are something like 30th in sack rate.

We may have more losses along the OL in terms of numbers, but I would still MUCH rather be in our shoes than Dallas' right now...

Based on how the Bears manhandled the Cowboys offensive line, the Packers should have several guys spending quality time visiting Dak on Sunday. They might want to consider having someone keep an eye on him though because he can tuck the ball in and run if lane integrity in the rush takes place. You can never be too careful.

 

[milani]

Everyone talks about a decimated O line. Sounds like an excuse to me. Weren't they out there in the Washington game? And each one is supposedly a good player.

A little difference in that on the road the O line usually has less time to react. It can account for some of the false starts, sacks, etc. In the Washington game we knew what we did not have during the week. In Cleveland we got hit from the first play.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Let’s chalk this first Loss to undisciplined play (8-4th Qtr flags) and some disorganized OL after losing 2 OL in the first Half. I know injury shouldn’t be an excuse but I think it’ll take a minute to adjust after losing Reed also. A few weeks that type thing. It can be a positive also getting other players experience (such as Savion, Belton or Fitzgerald etc.). That’s not ideal but it does help those guys grow confident and we get to see what we’ve got there also.

Injuries are inevitable. Looks like the medical staff got it wrong with Tom and Banks last week. The Packers should still be able to handle Dallas - without CeeDee Lamb.

The Reed injury - that's just a big loss. Watson's return will certainly help. Reed just can't be replaced. I hope he's back early December. There's no point in rushing. A fracture is a fracture and heals with time.

And yeah, against Cleveland, and aside from the injuries, the offense looked lifeless. MLF couldn't stop running Jacobs straight into an 8-man box, Love for some reason didn't roll out more in the face of Cleveland's rush. A guy that young and mobile should not be sacked 5 times. STs weren't special.

The loss will not have been in vain if they stomp Dallas. And while I don't like the early bye, the Packers need it.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'm going to try to blow a few minds here. But I think everyone can see what I'm saying. It's difficult explaining it but I'll try.

The best QBs in the NFL throw to a man before he comes open in his pass route. The average QB does it at times but opts to throw to what he perceives as a receiver who is open when he makes the throw. When you throw to the open man, and he's moving, the ball is often thrown behind them, not to where they will be because the QB's mind processes it in a "now" sense, not in a future based on movement. Think of how often we see Love throw behind his receivers, and I'm not referring to the back shoulder throw. It's quite often.

I hear a lot of announcers referring to it as being protective of the receiver or done because throwing it further out-front invites an INT. I disagree with them more than half the time as I watch the play unfold. I'm seeing a QB who doesn't trust the process of a timing route or one whose mind can't process what the receiver will do under various circumstances as presented by the way the defense plays. I think Love has a problem in trusting the system too often because he's unable to make those reads as the play is developing.

He has the arm and the ability to pin-point those throws but he lacks the trust in being able to do it because of the way they drilled it into his head during his first year as the starter when it came to dealing with reducing his number of INTs.

As a receiver, Romeo Doubs is a technician in running routes. He does it extremely well as some of us understand. But when he does run precise routes and sees that opportunities are blown because Love can't read the field properly, it leads to frustration. He knows in the back of his mind that Love is not connecting with his receivers the way he should. He's opting to throw to the open receiver not the one coming open where the best play actually is.

No matter how many great receivers the Packers trot out on the field with Love, until he trusts the system and let's it loose, we shouldn't expect elite play out of him. The biggest question we need to ask is whether or not it will ever happen, or will the Packers constantly try to "upgrade" their receiving corps in an attempt to deflect the responsibility away from Love. Unless they get Love to make those reads don't expect any more Lombardi Trophies to grace the Packer Hall Of Fame.

Very interesting comments V and may explain why Love struggles at time. Many times, as you note, the ball needs to come out while the receiver still has his back to the ball. Haven't seen that much this year.

 

[Heyjoe4]

A little difference in that on the road the O line usually has less time to react. It can account for some of the false starts, sacks, etc. In the Washington game we knew what we did not have during the week. In Cleveland we got hit from the first play.

Yeah I know Tom only took one snap followed closely by Banks. This is why Gluten added OL depth in the offseason, specifically - Banks, Belton, and Kinnard.

I don't like the early bye, but the Packers need it.

 

[Voyageur]

Yeah I know Tom only took one snap followed closely by Banks. This is why Gluten added OL depth in the offseason, specifically - Banks, Belton, and Kinnard.

I don't like the early bye, but the Packers need it.

Great time for the bye. There's a lot of issues that have come to the front that need to be resolved.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Very interesting comments V and may explain why Love struggles at time. Many times, as you note, the ball needs to come out while the receiver still has his back to the ball. Haven't seen that much this year.

But we have seen that in previous years, which is what I find puzzling. It's not like he can't do it; it's more like he just isn't doing it this year, or maybe he can't do it this year for some reason.

This guy is difficult to get an accurate read on.

 

[Voyageur]

But we have seen that in previous years, which is what I find puzzling. It's not like he can't do it; it's more like he just isn't doing it this year, or maybe he can't do it this year for some reason.

This guy is difficult to get an accurate read on.

I've often compared losing weight to the progression of some QBs. Love is one of those QBs.

You go on a diet. You do everything necessary, and you start to lose weight consistently. Then you reach a point where you're sticking with the program, but no weight comes off. So, you try tightening up the diet and still nothing happens. It's at this point that one of two things happen. You either stick to the plan and eventually you start losing weight again or you decide the plan isn't working so you either quit dieting or try to maintain the new weight you've attained.

I think you can see where some QBs fit into that mold. A perfect example is Sam Darnold. In his first two years, it looked like he had some tools and would make a good NFL QB. Then years 3 & 4 hit. His game essentially went down the tubes. He lost the game he did have because he no longer trusted himself or the system. In his 5th year, he learned to trust the system he was playing in and his INT numbers dropped significantly, and his game improved. He moved from the 49ers to the Vikings with a feeling of confidence in his ability to read the field and make plays. He hadn't had that earlier in his career. Then he moved on to the Vikings for 2024.

Last year, with the Vikings, he showed he had the skills to be just one step below the elite QBs in the league. His confidence was back and in full display. He used the season he had to get a huge contract with the Seahawks. Three weeks in, it looks like his confidence level is even higher, and he trusts the system, the coaches, and the players around him. He could lead them to a great season and be highly competitive when the playoffs start. Will he become elite? I don't know. It's up to him.

Love, in my opinion, is in exactly the same position as Darnold was in year 3. He's at a crossroads. The big difference is, Love already has the financial guarantees that most people seek the day they're drafted. He no longer has that as a "need" in his life. From now on, all he makes is gravy. Where it goes will be decided by the fire that he has inside, and his ability to somewhat "rediscover and recreate" the player he showed the potential of being earlier. The road to being a highly successful QB in the NFL isn't always a straight line to the top. Sometimes there's speed bumps, and sometimes the entire road is washed out, and some players find a way around that washout while others pretty much say they've done the best they can and accept where they're at.

What I'm reading in Love right now is mixed. I think he still wants to be the best QB possible but then again, I wonder if he has that fire inside that makes it happen. Let's hope he gets past this point in his development and regains the momentum he needs to be one of the best. It would be great being able to agree with people who say he's a top 5 elite QB but at this point, he isn't, and I am not confident he ever will be. But we can hope.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I've often compared losing weight to the progression of some QBs. Love is one of those QBs.

You go on a diet. You do everything necessary, and you start to lose weight consistently. Then you reach a point where you're sticking with the program, but no weight comes off. So, you try tightening up the diet and still nothing happens. It's at this point that one of two things happen. You either stick to the plan and eventually you start losing weight again or you decide the plan isn't working so you either quit dieting or try to maintain the new weight you've attained.

I think you can see where some QBs fit into that mold. A perfect example is Sam Darnold. In his first two years, it looked like he had some tools and would make a good NFL QB. Then years 3 & 4 hit. His game essentially went down the tubes. He lost the game he did have because he no longer trusted himself or the system. In his 5th year, he learned to trust the system he was playing in and his INT numbers dropped significantly, and his game improved. He moved from the 49ers to the Vikings with a feeling of confidence in his ability to read the field and make plays. He hadn't had that earlier in his career. Then he moved on to the Vikings for 2024.

Last year, with the Vikings, he showed he had the skills to be just one step below the elite QBs in the league. His confidence was back and in full display. He used the season he had to get a huge contract with the Seahawks. Three weeks in, it looks like his confidence level is even higher, and he trusts the system, the coaches, and the players around him. He could lead them to a great season and be highly competitive when the playoffs start. Will he become elite? I don't know. It's up to him.

Love, in my opinion, is in exactly the same position as Darnold was in year 3. He's at a crossroads. The big difference is, Love already has the financial guarantees that most people seek the day they're drafted. He no longer has that as a "need" in his life. From now on, all he makes is gravy. Where it goes will be decided by the fire that he has inside, and his ability to somewhat "rediscover and recreate" the player he showed the potential of being earlier. The road to being a highly successful QB in the NFL isn't always a straight line to the top. Sometimes there's speed bumps, and sometimes the entire road is washed out, and some players find a way around that washout while others pretty much say they've done the best they can and accept where they're at.

What I'm reading in Love right now is mixed. I think he still wants to be the best QB possible but then again, I wonder if he has that fire inside that makes it happen. Let's hope he gets past this point in his development and regains the momentum he needs to be one of the best. It would be great being able to agree with people who say he's a top 5 elite QB but at this point, he isn't, and I am not confident he ever will be. But we can hope.

I don't think the big contract explains Love's slow development, if it can even be called that. The deadly pic by Cleveland was part of a three year pattern by Love - making a bad decision at the worst possible time - or just not being able to handle a lot of pressure.

It's hard for me to complain about Love because I like his play so much. But there is another big step that Favre and Rodgers took in their third years. It's early, but I hope Love takes that step and soon.

I'd like to see Love become the obvious leader of this team. Just my opinion, he isn't there yet.

 

[gopkrs]

I don't think the play calling has helped him much. Maybe it's too much 12 personnel. It doesn't seem to open any holes or give him any more time

 

[OldSchool101]

I've often compared losing weight to the progression of some QBs. Love is one of those QBs.

You go on a diet. You do everything necessary, and you start to lose weight consistently. Then you reach a point where you're sticking with the program, but no weight comes off. So, you try tightening up the diet and still nothing happens. It's at this point that one of two things happen. You either stick to the plan and eventually you start losing weight again or you decide the plan isn't working so you either quit dieting or try to maintain the new weight you've attained.

I think you can see where some QBs fit into that mold. A perfect example is Sam Darnold. In his first two years, it looked like he had some tools and would make a good NFL QB. Then years 3 & 4 hit. His game essentially went down the tubes. He lost the game he did have because he no longer trusted himself or the system. In his 5th year, he learned to trust the system he was playing in and his INT numbers dropped significantly, and his game improved. He moved from the 49ers to the Vikings with a feeling of confidence in his ability to read the field and make plays. He hadn't had that earlier in his career. Then he moved on to the Vikings for 2024.

Last year, with the Vikings, he showed he had the skills to be just one step below the elite QBs in the league. His confidence was back and in full display. He used the season he had to get a huge contract with the Seahawks. Three weeks in, it looks like his confidence level is even higher, and he trusts the system, the coaches, and the players around him. He could lead them to a great season and be highly competitive when the playoffs start. Will he become elite? I don't know. It's up to him.

Love, in my opinion, is in exactly the same position as Darnold was in year 3. He's at a crossroads. The big difference is, Love already has the financial guarantees that most people seek the day they're drafted. He no longer has that as a "need" in his life. From now on, all he makes is gravy. Where it goes will be decided by the fire that he has inside, and his ability to somewhat "rediscover and recreate" the player he showed the potential of being earlier. The road to being a highly successful QB in the NFL isn't always a straight line to the top. Sometimes there's speed bumps, and sometimes the entire road is washed out, and some players find a way around that washout while others pretty much say they've done the best they can and accept where they're at.

What I'm reading in Love right now is mixed. I think he still wants to be the best QB possible but then again, I wonder if he has that fire inside that makes it happen. Let's hope he gets past this point in his development and regains the momentum he needs to be one of the best. It would be great being able to agree with people who say he's a top 5 elite QB but at this point, he isn't, and I am not confident he ever will be. But we can hope.

I agree with that. Love is not Elite
(Top 5 regularly). I’d currently put him ar the bottom of the next 5 grouping of QB’s. Top 8-12 area depending on which criteria we use. It’s really hard to find a Top 5 QB. We really were fortunate to have a pair of regularly Top 5 QB’s in their respective era.

My hope is Jordan can refine his craft to a point we can at least debate him into that Top 6-8 level guy regularly. Which imo gives #26 overall draft pick is a bargain. We all forget how hard it is acquire a Top 10 guy because we have high expectations in GB.

With A great D and if Love just stays Top 10 area and shows a tad more consistency or composure in Postseason? I think we’re deep playoff level team. Then it only takes back to back good performances to Win it all.

 

[rmontro]

With A great D and if Love just stays Top 10 area and shows a tad more consistency or composure in Postseason? I think we’re deep playoff level team. Then it only takes back to back good performances to Win it all.

If Love plays top 10 I will likely be satisfied. Anything more than that is gravy.

 

[Voyageur]

I don't think the big contract explains Love's slow development, if it can even be called that. The deadly pic by Cleveland was part of a three year pattern by Love - making a bad decision at the worst possible time - or just not being able to handle a lot of pressure.

It's hard for me to complain about Love because I like his play so much. But there is another big step that Favre and Rodgers took in their third years. It's early, but I hope Love takes that step and soon.

I'd like to see Love become the obvious leader of this team. Just my opinion, he isn't there yet.

I wasn't implying that the big contract will make him lose sight of the effort needed to do the job at the highest level. I mean that a hungry player who has the desire to get that big contract goes so much farther beyond the scope of preparation to get there. It's why we keep hearing the term "contract year" for so many players. Regardless of what any of us believe, the reality is that there is that driving force that comes with the knowledge that if I succeed now, the rewards are breathtaking, and I can enjoy the product of that hard work.

We all have that inside of ourselves. It's even there with most of us with our regular jobs. Let's say you work in a department within a company where they have a history of promoting from within. Let's say the manager's job pays two or three times what any of the other jobs within that department pays because that's the company's pay structure.

I assume the Manager is 69 years old and has just bought a place in Florida to spend his winters and in one year, he's going to be leaving and more than likely someone in that department is going to be promoted into his job. Let's assume that the results of the daily, weekly, and monthly work of each of the people who work there is able to be tracked, and statistics are kept showing how they compare with each other constantly. Let's also assume that the common belief in the group is that the present Manager got there by being the top man/woman in the group consistently over the comparison cycles.

Now tell me, in that environment, if you believe that you have a reasonable shot at getting that job by redoubling your effort to do a better job that you're not going to go to those lengths to give you that opportunity. Then, assuming you aren't chosen for the job, but they give you a modest raise for doing the job well, are you going to continue at that higher level or allow yourself to work at a pace that doesn't reach that level? Even the person who gets the job will ease off the throttle because it's human nature.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I wasn't implying that the big contract will make him lose sight of the effort needed to do the job at the highest level. I mean that a hungry player who has the desire to get that big contract goes so much farther beyond the scope of preparation to get there. It's why we keep hearing the term "contract year" for so many players. Regardless of what any of us believe, the reality is that there is that driving force that comes with the knowledge that if I succeed now, the rewards are breathtaking, and I can enjoy the product of that hard work.

We all have that inside of ourselves. It's even there with most of us with our regular jobs. Let's say you work in a department within a company where they have a history of promoting from within. Let's say the manager's job pays two or three times what any of the other jobs within that department pays because that's the company's pay structure.

I assume the Manager is 69 years old and has just bought a place in Florida to spend his winters and in one year, he's going to be leaving and more than likely someone in that department is going to be promoted into his job. Let's assume that the results of the daily, weekly, and monthly work of each of the people who work there is able to be tracked, and statistics are kept showing how they compare with each other constantly. Let's also assume that the common belief in the group is that the present Manager got there by being the top man/woman in the group consistently over the comparison cycles.

Now tell me, in that environment, if you believe that you have a reasonable shot at getting that job by redoubling your effort to do a better job that you're not going to go to those lengths to give you that opportunity. Then, assuming you aren't chosen for the job, but they give you a modest raise for doing the job well, are you going to continue at that higher level or allow yourself to work at a pace that doesn't reach that level? Even the person who gets the job will ease off the throttle because it's human nature.

I understand your point. I worked in sales most of my career, and the only comp plans I wanted were 100% commissions, no salary, no cap, all tied to my ability to close profitable contracts. "Profitable" being key because I got a cut of those profits, and nada if a project closed under. water. I was motivated all the time (I did take two weeks off each year to recharge).

And that's like a player in a "contract year" - they'll do all the extra things.

Love got his big contract without having shown himself to be worth that money. Good timing for him, bad timing for GB. He's a very good QB, but not $55 mil AAV good, yet.....

Anyway I think playing on a good team with a good GM, coaches, and ownership helps motivate guys to reach the pinnacle - get a ring. It doesn't always work that way. Just look at Miles Garrett. In February he wanted out of Cleveland (he even wrote a farewell letter to fans) to pursue a championship. All that changed when Cleveland offered him a boatload of $$$. I'm glad the Packers didn't trade for him.

 

[gopkrs]

It's halftime and Wentz looks a lot better than I thought he would. Rodgers looks good

 

[Pkrjones]

It's halftime and Wentz looks a lot better than I thought he would. Rodgers looks good

Vike's OL is getting destroyed, and Wentz isn't mobile enough to hurt them.

 

[gopkrs]

Nice they got beat. We'll have to play Pittsburgh later. Curious to see how Cleveland can hold up today.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Nice they got beat. We'll have to play Pittsburgh later. Curious to see how Cleveland can hold up today.

Lions are handling them so far, 20-7 late in the 3rd. Flacco's having a tough day at the office.

Rodgers had a good day - did just what he needed to do to win. QB rating of 119.7; Wentz threw for 350 yards but still somehow managed to be completely ineffective.

Minnesota is between a rock and a hard place next week. If the same Browns team that we saw last week shows up next week, and Wentz is still the quarterback, he's going to get massacred. If McCarthy is ready to get back in, he's not going to be very mobile yet, and he's going to have to get rid of the ball very fast. The Vikings have a much better deep passing game than a short game, but that defense is not going to give him time to develop the deep routes.

Fortunately for them, that RB they picked up from San Francisco (Jordan Mason) to replace Jones had a hell of a game today, so they might be able to open things up a bit with their running game, but I don't think it's going to be enough. I think Minnesota is 2-3 after Week 5, going into a really tough schedule - Eagles and Chargers (both of whom are 3-0 at the moment), and then the Lions. If I were a Minnesota fan, I'd be a little nervous right now.

 

[Raptorman]

Vike's OL is getting destroyed, and Wentz isn't mobile enough to hurt them.

When 3/5 of your O-line is second-stringers starting, yeah, you get beat up pretty bad.

 

[gopkrs]

When 3/5 of your O-line is second-stringers starting, yeah, you get beat up pretty bad.

We really only have one out. Though I'm not sure Morgan should be a starter. R tackle and L guard could actually switch places during the game. And if either are not up to it should be replaced during the game imo. I have more condidence in R tackle. Same with Jenkins. We need to open some holes. So I hope it's just not an O line coaching problem.Go Pack Go!

 

[Thirteen Below]

We really only have one out. Though I'm not sure Morgan should be a starter. R tackle and L guard could actually switch places during the game. And if either are not up to it should be replaced during the game imo. I have more condidence in R tackle. Same with Jenkins. We need to open some holes. So I hope it's just not an O line coaching problem.Go Pack Go!

Belton and Tom are both out, and Banks is doubtful.