NFC North 2025

[milani]

The '60s Green Bay Packers did a lot of the small stuff perfectly to win. This was a good Kansas City Chiefs team. Buck Buchanan was a tough player for any offensive line to handle. With the exception of the sack in the opening drive, the Packers settled down and contained him (there was a play in the 2nd half where he threatened Bart Starr. Starr dodged him, but E.J. Holub got the sack.

Forrest Gregg did get knocked down, but I reviewed the rest of the game and the right line held up very well. If you can give your quarterback 3-5 seconds of space you are doing a good job. With the exception of the opening drive, that is exactly what they did.

Another note on this game (Super Bowl I). The Packers were never fighting for momentum. They almost seemed to not need it whereas most teams disparately want it. They were a ball-control team. Generally running on 1st and 2nd downs and throwing on 3rd down if need be, but they might just put a wrinkle in that format and throw on first down just to keep the defense honest.

Overall, that OL did an amazing job.

During that 14 game season of 1966 Starr and Bratkowski were only sacked 12 times, best in the league. And that was a time when the only elusive QB in the NFL was Fran Tarkenton. That first series was more of a test of uncertainty. The two teams never played each other. They never even had any common opponents. So it was hard to tell how good or bad the opponent was watching film of only the other league. After that start the Packers had the Chiefs figured out and by the 3rd quarter they knew their experience would take over.
Remember that the Packers faced Johnny Unitas twice a year. They had beaten Doomsday 3 times in 3 consecutive seasons. They had defeated the Browns and Jim Brown 5 straight times. They even knocked off George Allen's Rams twice in 1966. So they were not about to be intimidated or pushed around by the Chiefs.

 

[milani]

In those days they even allowed the slap to the helmet. A lot of offensive linemen in particular lost some hearing because of it. Defenders would slap them on the ear hole and sometimes concuss them but at least disorient a player. If you get caught today doing that, it's a major penalty.

I recall only one receiver in the league that had success against Herb in more than one game. That was Gary Collins of Cleveland.

 

[Thirteen Below]

That catch that Max McGee made on the TD was highlight reel stuff. The ball was a yard behind him and he scooped it in 1-handed, OBJ style and never lost stride. He really just made catching an errant pass look easy.

And he did that with a monstrous hangover, and in fact was possibly still drunk. He wasn't expecting to play that day, so he stayed up all night drinking with a couple of flight attendants and apparently never even went to sleep. He stumbled into the hotel at 6:30, knowing that the coaches would all still be asleep, but forgot that Bart Starr was an early riser. Starr passed him in the hallway on his way down to breakfast, and gave him a very disappointed look.

McGee told Dowler before the game, "I hope you don't get hurt. I'm not in very good shape.'' He was horrified when Dowler was injured on the 3rd play from scrimmage, and Vince called out, "McGee - you're in!", because he didn't even have his helmet - he had to quickly borrow a lineman's.

A very interesting guy. After his stellar rookie season, he had to serve 2 years in the air force, flying mostly F-86s. But he also flew some special missions as a drone operator at Eglin Air Force Base.

He would remotely operate the drone from a B-17 that was flown by one of the program directors, who, 12 years later, would be his teammate on the Packers - Lieutenant Zeke Bratkowski, who had just finished his own rookie season with the Chicago Bears. They remained close friends for life, and Zeke lived with McGee for several years in Green Bay.

 

[Thirteen Below]

This is when Green Bay start to relax and play their game. Which is a grinding-down-the-field type that we don't often see.

That's a lot harder to do in today's NFL, because of parity and the fact that the defenses have become so good at disrupting a play and forcing and exploiting mistakes.

The 60s Packers were one of the most dominant teams in NFL history (arguably the most dominant team), and Lombardi had a winning percentage of .738 throughout his entire career - easily the best in the post-WWII NFL until John Madden came along. They were clearly better than any other team in the league during his 9-year tenure, and basically just imposed their will on every other team in the league. In the modern NFL, that will never happen again.

 

[Thirteen Below]

It's a little surprising that Chicago and Detroit are neck and neck a half game behind us, and Minnesota brings up the rear at 3-3. I would have expected a best-case scenario of us tied with the Lions for the lead, then Minnesota, and Chicago bringing up the rear as always.

But then again, the differences are miniscule. All four teams are within 1 game; easily the tightest race in the league. No other division in the NFL has less than 3 games between #1 and #4, and some have a gap of 5 or even 6 games.

Detroit can take the lead with a win tomorrow, so hopefully Tampa can step up and knock them back a bit going into their bye week.

Bears beat the Saints today (of course), but Williams had another terrible game - passer rating of 61.7 against a below-average passing defense; 0 TDs and 1 INT. 126 yards from Deandre Swift and 4 field goals won it.

Chicago, as a whole, is a little better than I expected, and Williams (at best) is a little worse. He's very inconsistent, and even mediocre teams seem as though they are able to find ways to stonewall him. But if he starts to figure it out, they may become a factor unlike what we're used to.

 

[milani]

And he did that with a monstrous hangover, and in fact was possibly still drunk. He wasn't expecting to play that day, so he stayed up all night drinking with a couple of flight attendants and apparently never even went to sleep. He stumbled into the hotel at 6:30, knowing that the coaches would all still be asleep, but forgot that Bart Starr was an early riser. Starr passed him in the hallway on his way down to breakfast, and gave him a very disappointed look.

McGee told Dowler before the game, "I hope you don't get hurt. I'm not in very good shape.'' He was horrified when Dowler was injured on the 3rd play from scrimmage, and Vince called out, "McGee - you're in!", because he didn't even have his helmet - he had to quickly borrow a lineman's.

A very interesting guy. After his stellar rookie season, he had to serve 2 years in the air force, flying mostly F-86s. But he also flew some special missions as a drone operator at Eglin Air Force Base.

He would remotely operate the drone from a B-17 that was flown by one of the program directors, who, 12 years later, would be his teammate on the Packers - Lieutenant Zeke Bratkowski, who had just finished his own rookie season with the Chicago Bears. They remained close friends for life, and Zeke lived with McGee for several years in Green Bay.

Ironically, he died falling off his roof. His wife told him not to go up there at his age. But he did what he liked. McGee had the body made for those catches. Max was a punter for the Packers in Lombardi's earlier years. He had one blocked in the 1962 Championship for the only Giants score.

 

[OldSchool101]

Detroit can take the lead with a win tomorrow, so hopefully Tampa can step up and knock them back a bit going into their bye week.

Actually GB (.7500) leads the Division even if Detroit Wins (.7143..). As long as GB keeps Winning no North team can catch us.
That said yes! we need a Tampa Win to pull away still further

 

[OldSchool101]

Interesting note. We obviously want Detroit to lose vs Tampa. However to a degree GB wins either way. If Detroit Wins? GB is #1 in the North. If Tampa loses? GB pops to a #1 Seed overall. Starts getting interesting.

You heard it at PackerForum 1st!

 

[Voyageur]

Actually GB (.7500) leads the Division even if Detroit Wins (.7143..). As long as GB keeps Winning no North team can catch us.
That said yes! we need a Tampa Win to pull away still further

I have a hunch that 1/2 game is going to decide the difference between winning the division and finishing second. It could go either way.

 

[PikeBadger]

I recall only one receiver in the league that had success against Herb in more than one game. That was Gary Collins of Cleveland.

Tall, big and knew how to use his body. A professional and effective NFL wide receiver who I'm sure benefitted crom having Paul Warfield on the other side of the field and the incredible Jim Brown running over and through everyone in his path.

 

[milani]

Tall, big and knew how to use his body. A professional and effective NFL wide receiver who I'm sure benefitted crom having Paul Warfield on the other side of the field and the incredible Jim Brown running over and through everyone in his path.

Yes. Collins was not a real fast receiver but similar to Raymond Berry. They had Frank Ryan at QB for several years. The criticism was directing toward what was there before him. Like Milt Plum who wound up with the Lions.

 

[Voyageur]

Yes. Collins was not a real fast receiver but similar to Raymond Berry. They had Frank Ryan at QB for several years. The criticism was directing toward what was there before him. Like Milt Plum who wound up with the Lions.

Glad you mentioned Raymond. Amazing receiver. People said he didn't run his routes. Of course he didn't, but he did. He could read the defenders, and Unitas could read the defenders. Berry knew where he should be, and when, and Unitas knew he'd be there at that precise time. It isn't always about speed. No matter how physical the game is, the real winners are those that can play the game between their ears and react to the situation as it stands at that particular instance.

Raymond was among the walking wounded every year. I remember an announcer saying that if Berry wasn't playing with a sprained wrist or broken ribs, something was wrong with the Colts. He had a congenital back condition causing one leg to appear shorter, poor eyesight, and was by all means never going to pass an NFL physical. Today, that HOF player would never be picked up by a team because of injury history.

Sometimes injury history is important. Sometimes it's much less important. Sometimes it's the player himself who has to make a decision on how far he's willing to take it. I know Doubs went through the concussion protocol twice last year, but I'm not really certain that the second time around it was actually a concussion as much as the fear it could have been a concussion and the protocol was invoked because it was hard to evaluate.

Too many coaches today are overly enthralled with speed. They think it's all there is and gear their games to it. A good defensive team that can pressure a QB and who has solid CBs and a safety or two who can read offenses and give coverage over the top will neutralize that speed more than people think. The best way to combat offensive speed is by getting on the QB so he needs to get rid of the ball early. With less than 2.5 seconds of time before he needs to release the ball, most QBs won't have an open window to hit that fast wide receiver.

 

[OldSchool101]

Well we could’ve used a Tampa Win but we get a consolation prize either way. GB is in the Drivers seat.
#1 in the NFC

Been awhile since we could say that.

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[milani]

So GB is in the Drivers seat.
#1 in the NFC

Been awhile since we could say that.

Lions 2nd string secondary looked 10 times better than our first.

 

[rmontro]

That's cool, although the #1 seed hasn't done us much good in recent years, including against Tampa. Although I don't know if I'd want to play in Florida come playoff time either.

 

[OldSchool101]

That's cool, although the #1 seed hasn't done us much good in recent years, including against Tampa. Although I don't know if I'd want to play in Florida come playoff time

It’s a long ways to making plans for a Bye. However it goes to show that with a Low Loss total the Tie doesn’t hurt as much as everyone thought.

 

[OldSchool101]

Lions 2nd string secondary looked 10 times better than our first.

I doubt we’re done making adjustments just yet. I do wish we’d find a trade partner for a CB. We don’t need a Top flight CB, but it would be wise to trade for a veteran that’s at least good enough to push our guys for that CB2 spot. A move for a veteran presence Similar to what we did with Tramon Williams back in 2018-19 or what we did with Rasul shortly after that. Matter of fact Rasul has been playing better this year and if there’s no bad blood I’m not opposed to grabbing him.

 

[rmontro]

It’s a long ways to making plans for a Bye. However it goes to show that with a Low Loss total the Tie doesn’t hurt as much as everyone thought.

Well, we're talking #1 seed so it just follows to talk about what it means. The Packers tend not to play well after a week off though.

But yeah, I said at the time the tie can help you, or hurt you, depending on the situation.

 

[OldSchool101]

Well, we're talking #1 seed so it just follows to talk about what it means. The Packers tend not to play well after a week off though.

But yeah, I said at the time the tie can help you, or hurt you, depending on the situation.

See I don’t think you can put the 2020 Tampa Loss on This Team. This is a completely different Roster. Different QB, WR, RB, changes all over the Roster.
If we think like that we would be afraid to go for the 61 yard field goal because of what happened at Dallas. Gotta shake that off imo. I’d MUCH rather have the Bye and advance to divisional and play the bottom remaining seed and sleep in our own beds. You gotta have a short term memory in this League.

It sure didn’t work out any better in 2024 Wildcard. No thanks give me the Bye and a lower seeded opponent

 

[gopkrs]

Lions 2nd string secondary looked 10 times better than our first.

I noticed that too

 

[rmontro]

See I don’t think you can put the 2020 Tampa Loss on This Team. This is a completely different Roster. Different QB, WR, RB, changes all over the Roster.

That's true, of course, although the tendency to not play very well after a bye seems to have stuck with us.
At one time we were 9-0 without a loss in the playoffs at Lambeau, and that doesn't have any relevance either.

 

[OldSchool101]

That's true, of course, although the tendency to not play very well after a bye seems to have stuck with us.
At one time we were 9-0 without a loss in the playoffs at Lambeau, and that doesn't have any relevance either.

I just think we learn from the past and maybe shake up our process during a Bye week. I think it’s dangerous to say we don’t want a Bye week in the playoffs though. It’s quite possible we just were not the best team on the field that day and were ill prepared.

I think you know the Bye is very advantageous, just Look at more recently historical examples of successful teams like New England. They had lots of Bye weeks it actually assisted their postseason success. The Bye isn’t the problem, the format of how we use the Bye might be a problem, I’d give you that.

I can’t find it but I recall an interview with Brady and he said the 2 keys to their success were Winning their Division and playing at home. Not to say you can’t win on the road like 2010. I’m pretty sure the teams with Bye weeks advance farther than the teams who are lower seeded across a large sample. (Ignore the WI teams!) LOL

 

[tynimiller]

The gauntlant starts this week....when Burrow went down I circled this weeks game vs Steelers clear through till the end of the season as the gauntlant...because oh my word it is going to be tough...

In those 11 games we have 5 against NFC North teams which all have winning records currently
In those 11 games we play only two teams with a losing record and that is Lamar Jackson led Ravens...and the playing much better Giants
The combined records as of typing this of our remaining games are 33-21 (.611)
In those 11 games we play 3 current division leaders (Lions would be four if we weren't ahead of them)

5 wins is minimum IMO needed out of these 11 to have a chance at Playoffs, 6 wins makes it highly likely and I bet 7 locks it.

The hardest games IMO left if I were to rank them are:

November 27th at Lions - ALWAYS TOUGH
December 14th at Broncos - Their defense is insane and going to their house is going to be TOUGH
October 26th at Steelers - Place is incredibly tough to play, Rodgers controls the ball and is willing to live on quick stuff...
November 10th vs Eagles - That team is simply good and will always hold my worries
January 4th at Vikings - IF this game means nothing by then of course would be last on the list but I would HATE to go there with something on the line.
December 28th vs Ravens - Ravens go on a run they're going to be hungry that week possibly fighting for their playoff lives...another game that could mean NOTHING and slide down
December 20th at Bears - Early enough both teams could be playing for something in the annual cointoss divisional games
November 2nd vs Panthers - This team is playing very well...
November 23rd vs Vikings - At home I don't have as much anx
December 7th vs Bears - For some reason don't fear them at home
November 16th at Giants - For some reason I sense we take care of business.

 

[OldSchool101]

The gauntlant starts this week....when Burrow went down I circled this weeks game vs Steelers clear through till the end of the season as the gauntlant...because oh my word it is going to be tough...

In those 11 games we have 5 against NFC North teams which all have winning records currently
In those 11 games we play only two teams with a losing record and that is Lamar Jackson led Ravens...and the playing much better Giants
The combined records as of typing this of our remaining games are 33-21 (.611)
In those 11 games we play 3 current division leaders (Lions would be four if we weren't ahead of them)

5 wins is minimum IMO needed out of these 11 to have a chance at Playoffs, 6 wins makes it highly likely and I bet 7 locks it.

The hardest games IMO left if I were to rank them are:

November 27th at Lions - ALWAYS TOUGH
December 14th at Broncos - Their defense is insane and going to their house is going to be TOUGH
October 26th at Steelers - Place is incredibly tough to play, Rodgers controls the ball and is willing to live on quick stuff...
November 10th vs Eagles - That team is simply good and will always hold my worries
January 4th at Vikings - IF this game means nothing by then of course would be last on the list but I would HATE to go there with something on the line.
December 28th vs Ravens - Ravens go on a run they're going to be hungry that week possibly fighting for their playoff lives...another game that could mean NOTHING and slide down
December 20th at Bears - Early enough both teams could be playing for something in the annual cointoss divisional games
November 2nd vs Panthers - This team is playing very well...
November 23rd vs Vikings - At home I don't have as much anx
December 7th vs Bears - For some reason don't fear them at home
November 16th at Giants - For some reason I sense we take care of business.

Yep. No doubt if we don’t improve we can find ourselves asking each other what happened afterwards. We’ve got great teams in our path.

Our biggest weaknesses are OL (run block) and perimeter CB. I really hope we can figure out a better plan for Hobbs but we can’t afford on the job training at boundary right now. Swallow our pride and get Valentine back out there. Go grab a moderate priced $3-5M etc Boundary option before deadline. That’s our biggest concern and least fixable if someone injured.

All this said. GB might have serious flaws. However the Packers are good enough to trip over good teams for a Win also. I think we’re all guilty of downplaying how dynamic we are. I’m 100% confident that if our Roster just plays B grade football we can cause lots of problems against anyone in our path. We’re dynamic up n down but it still shows we’re capable of up. When Jordan first started he would lose 2 of 3 games down a games 4th qtr stretch… the tide is turning.

This is why if I’m Gute I’m not afraid to attain a bonafide, established Vet at CB etc. We shore up boundary and get a little uptick at OL we’re gonna punish teams once Watson or Reed enter stage right

 

[tynimiller]

Yep. No doubt if we don’t improve we can find ourselves asking each other what happened afterwards. We’ve got great teams in our path.

Our biggest weaknesses are OL (run block) and perimeter CB. I really hope we can figure out a better plan for Hobbs but we can’t afford on the job training at boundary right now. Swallow our pride and get Valentine back out there. Go grab a moderate priced $3-5M etc Boundary option before deadline. That’s our biggest concern and least fixable if someone injured.

All this said. GB might have serious flaws. However the Packers are good enough to trip over good teams for a Win also. I think we’re all guilty of downplaying how dynamic we are. I’m 100% confident that if our Roster just plays B grade football we can cause lots of problems against anyone in our path. We’re dynamic up n down but it still shows we’re capable of up. When Jordan first started he would lose 2 of 3 games down a games 4th qtr stretch… the tide is turning.

Concur, this team even with Hobbs and OL issues at times could keep playing as we have and win 5 of those 11 IMO...