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Mike Daniels could propel the Packers defense

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by FrankRizzo, Jun 5, 2012.

  1. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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  2. Aaron rodgers is god

    Aaron rodgers is god Cheesehead

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    When they showed the clip of him on draft day he was looked extremely fast on tape. Many scouts have said he had probably the best jump off the line. The problem with him is he is undersized for a DT or DE in our system; however, he is going to do wonders for us in pass rush situations.

    Here is the video
     
  3. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    The knock on Cullen Jenkins was always his size too. He was a smurf compared to his brother and 'too small for our defense.' That worked out well for us
     
  4. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I am getting excited to see what this D can do on the field! Anything will be better than last year, :)
     
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  5. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    That was a well written article. A lot of national commentators either miss the fact the Packers played more two-man DL than 3-man or fail to mention it. That Capers does use the 2-4-5 so often is why Daniels fits. If his quickness translates to the NFL, his relentlessness will endear him to Packers fans. It would be great to have a relentless rusher from the inside - it'll make Clay and Perry even better from the outside. And with the rest of what we hope is the new depth on the DL, perhaps Raji's snaps will be reduced and he'll be more relentless too.

    As I mentioned in another post, Worthy is about the same size as Cullen Jenkins so while he may be undersized for a traditional 3-4 DE, if he can emulate Cullen it won't matter at all. A tall order I know, I'm just saying it won't be his size that holds him back.
     
  6. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    We were 12th in points allowed. Even if we double our sack totals, if we end up less than 12th on that list, we have done worse. The defense wasn't anywhere NEAR as bad as some people like you to think. Yards aren't the only, nor best measure of a defense. Points and turnovers are far more important.
     
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  7. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    We were toothless last year. Nobody feared our D. That has to change.
     
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  8. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    That's a great stat and definitely important for most folks to keep in mind. The other factor was that our offense was so prolific and good at fast starts, that other teams were in their hurry-up offenses before halftime! So we did give up tons of yards.

    The defense plunged when compared to the 2010 defense but they still weren't half bad considering how much the other teams were throwing the ball due to their 1st and 2nd quarter deficits.
     
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  9. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    It won't be one guy that makes the difference. If one does jump out and surprise it's a plus but what TT did was add speed and athleticism at multiple positions for a cumulative improvement. They obviously got together and made the decision of speed/athlete over size/power.
    We have added quck first step guys with tenacity in Daniels, Hargrove, and, hopefully Worthy, that won't stop. Last year it looked like our interior linemen were playing patty cake with the Olineman. They would get squared up on and get no penetration at all.
    I see a more relentless effort and better results this year because we have several more guys making an impact. Two years ago we got this and any given player would have a great game with multiple sacks. Last year this never hardly happened.
     
  10. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Our defense was fricking horrible. Let's cut the BS..... we couldn't stop anyone unless they threw it to us by mistake.
    Thank God Ted doesn't buy that "total points was okay" theory. He used his first 5 picks on defense, plus shockingly signed 3 or 4 free agents, all on defense. He did it because the defense was horrible. Even Woodson agrees.
     
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  11. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    Yep yep. There's no shielding the fact that the defense was our weaker the unit last year. Regardless of our mediocre standing in points allowed, I saw a group that couldn't get off the field on third down.

    P.S. Daniels is my sleeper surprise from this year's draft: "You're my boy, Daniels!"

    [​IMG]
     
  12. shockerx

    shockerx Cheesehead

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    Guys think giving up yards on D is no big deal....well it means the ball is not in rodgers hands...it means we have a longer field on O.give up fewer yards a short field and rodgers handles the ball a couple more times, we score 50.
     
  13. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    You couldn't be more WRONG on this. We LED the NFL in takeaways (which is NOT something that happens on accident) and at the end of the day, points allowed IS the primary function of a defense. If you want to say we had a horrible pass rush, I would agree with you (which is exactly what Ted addressed in the draft). But defense is more than just pass rush.

    The Vikings allowed 50 fewer yards per game than the Packers. They led the league in sacks. But they also had 23 fewer interceptions and were second in MOST points allowed. I suppose you think they have a better defense?

    BTW, the two Super Bowl teams last year also had one of the 6 worst defenses (if all you care about is yards, for some reason).

    Sorry, you can crow all you want about the Packers having the worst defense but it simply is not true. They are overall a good defense in desperate need of some help on the DL, and they got that.
     
  14. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    If time of possession is the measure you want, then we were 12th in ToP. You seem to be another member of the "yards is all that matters" camp.

    BTW, correction: We ended the season 18th in points allowed, BUT prior to the final meaningless game in which most of our starters barely played, we were 8th.
     
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  15. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    I like him too, but I think Worthy is going to be a beast.
     
  16. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Let's look at some basic team stats from last year.

    OFFENSE, Total Offense (Yards Per Game):
    1. Saints
    2. Patriots
    3. Packers
    4. Eagles
    5. Lions
    I think we can all agree they were all really good offenses last year.

    DEFENSE, Total Defense (Yards Per Game):
    1. Steelers
    2. Texans
    3. Ravens
    4. 49ers
    5. Jets
    I think we can all agree that those 5 were really good defenses.

    In other words, this statistic is very accurate, reflective, of how good or bad, a defense was.
    We were dead last, 32nd. New England was 31st, and their fans told us all year how bad their defense was. They were clones of us last year, but they made the Super Bowl because they got Denver while we got the Giants, and because we had the punk kid get drunk & stoned and cause the team/organiation to lose its edge as a funeral took place 48 hours from the game and took all kinds of focus & intensity off us. But their defense was bad as ours was.

    They, coincidentally, used their TOP 6 top picks in the draft on defense just like we did. BPA? Nonsense. Both teams knew they needed big time help on defense, and went that route. Smartly.

    PATRIOTS GRADE: A
    Bill Belichick cleverly maneuvered around the draft board to address the Patriots' suspect defense. He nabbed a pair of first-round difference makers in Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower, and found a few potential sleepers in Alfonzo Dennard and Jake Bequette. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...als-patriots-giants-chiefs-ace-2012-nfl-draft


    Our defense was atrocious.
    Looking further, our defense allowed an average of 22.4 first downs per game. That's terrible. That was 2nd from the bottom. And it translated over to the playoff game against the Giants when time & time again in the first half, we couldn't get the stop on 3rd down and give the ball back to the MVP.
    Our defense also allowed 6.3 yards per play, which tied the Buccanneers as dead last in the NFL.

    The camoflauge was the turnovers, keeping points off the board at times, bailing us out. But against good QBs, those donations don't occur and we need defenses to get stops.

    Anyway, we're all happy now that we addressed he defense in the draft and free agency, and let's hope they rise to the occasion!
     
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  17. GeeDogWarrior

    GeeDogWarrior 0 - 0

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    Jay Ratliff is an undersized 7th round pick that plays Nose Tackle for the cowboys.... seems to have worked out for them.

    so idk, you never know, hoping Mike Daniels and Jerol Worthy kick some butt and compliment Raji at the Dline.
    Perry and Matthews bring the noise and we move on up to reclaim our Championship... GEROUAOHGOAHGOAH! :x3:
     
  18. 60six

    60six DIE HARD

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    He hasn't played one snap in any OTAs or mini camp yet, so I'm not sure how this thread as any merit. When he gets started, he'll be behind. I hope he's a beast, but let him get on the field against a pro L-men before he's crowned.
     
  19. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    If only we had more guys with prototypical size for the 3-4... like Mike Neal!
     
  20. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Okay, DoddPower. What part of post #14 do you disagree with. There is nothing in that post except facts. Which fact do you dispute? That we were 12th in ToP or we finished 18th in points allowed, or that we were 8th in points allowed until the throw-away game against the Lions?
     
  21. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    I call B.S. on that one. Teams generally tend to rise up when a coach or teammate faces a personal tragedy. I would bet more than half the guys on the team didn't even know the kid personally. Coaches tend to keep their personal lives separate from the team. Oh, and BTW, you make yourself a punk by calling a kid that you don't even know a punk just because you have this messed up idea that that is why we lost a playoff game. Anyone who values a football game more than a life is pretty messed up. You have a lot of hatred in you.

    BTW, you dodged my question. The Vikings allowed a lot fewer yards than we did and they led the league in sacks. Are they a better defense?
     
  22. DoddPower

    DoddPower Nick Perry is watching you, NFL QB's!

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    No statistic is going to justify this defense to me. I watched every single snap, as most others here, two games in person, and they were horrible. It doesn't really matter if they were only 18 in points allowed, what matters most is getting stops when it mattered most, which was a rare occasion. The high number of turnovers don't really matter to me either. I'd gladly sacrifice some interceptions for key 3rd down stops and more 3rd down sacks.

    The 2011 Packer's defense was horrible. Statistics can almost always be used in such a way to justify a certain perspective. I don't see what point it serves here because the fact remains that the defense was bad and needs serious improvements. Thankfully the front office agrees, as do most. I had little to no faith that the Packer's were going to come up with that crucial 3rd down stop last year. Even when it mattered most, in the playoffs, they couldn't even contain the long draw play that lead to the horrible hailmary touchdown. Nauseating, to say the least.

    With that being said, I certainly expect them to be better this upcoming season.
     
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  23. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    ROFL I love the way you want to devalue the impact of generating turnovers, even though historically the team that wins the turnover battle wins the game 68% of the time and what that margin is +2 turnovers, the win percentage is close to 85%. If turnovers were nothing more than "donations" by bad QBs, then every team would have a lot of turnovers. Your clear implication that it wasn't because of anything our defense did is laughable at best.

    BTW, NOWHERE did I say our defense was good. I am merely that they weren't the WORST either.
     
  24. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    As did I.

    So let me get this straight... you'd trade away a guaranteed change of possession to give the other team a chance to punt the ball and likely give us worse field position or maybe a chance at a first down on a 4th down conversion? Sounds like a VERY bad trade to me.

    Consider the scenario you just proposed for a moment: Third down and 10 to go... Giants at the 50 yard line. Manning back to throw... He's got Cruz deep down the sideline... INT by Woodson... 10 yard return! Packers ball on their own 30 yard line! But you turn around and tell Coughlin, "You know what? I'd rather have the 3rd down stop. You go ahead and take the ball back. You can just punt and we'll just take our chances with that. Hopefully we don't muff it!"

    ROFL See how much sense that doesn't make?

    Why do you think it is that every single week you hear coaches talking about "winning the turnover battle?" It's because the team that wins that USUALLY WINS THE GAME. Last year, it resulted in helping us win 15 of them. Of course, that stat probably doesn't matter to you either. Wins? Turnovers? None of that matters right? The only thing that matters on defense is yards, man! Frank won't answer my question, so maybe you will. Were the Vikings a better defense than we were last year?

    Look, I never said the defense was good. But there seems to be a contingent here who thinks anyone who dares say the Packers weren't the absolute worst must be saying they were good. The fact of the matter is they were terrible in some aspects and good in others.

    The worst defense was Tampa Bay, hands down. I would also say our defense was better than Buffalo, Carolina, St. Louis, Minnesota and Indy. Those are the obvious ones. You could also argue we were better than New Orleans too, who was second worst at generating turnovers (right behind Pittsburgh), although they did allow fewer total points than us (but not until the Lions game where most of our starters sat out).
     
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  25. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    While I agree 100% our defense wasnt that horrible as people think..I also have to remind myself...

    Panther game
    Charger game
    Tampa game
    Giants game
    Last Lions game

    Playoff Giants game


    What is common denominator?? If I defense played half way decent, those games wouldnt have been close..Only cuz of our offense did we win those games..

    Dotn forgot how HORRIBLE our defense looked in the playoff loss...Points given up do not matter stat wise when your defense looked like crap
     

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