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let's talk about the D-line

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by cara murphy, Jul 22, 2014.

  1. cara murphy

    cara murphy Cheesehead

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    The Packers have a good mix of youth and experience on the defensive line.
    http://pack.rs/1emsr
     
  2. Green and Gold

    Green and Gold Cheesehead

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    What people don't understand about Peppers is he doesn't have to play at a Peppers level to be an improvement. Occasionally he will show massive upside, but his age will show as well. It's more about general consistent play and the potential to threaten the qb.
     
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  3. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Youth and experience don't mean much if you can't control the LOS.
     
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  4. cara murphy

    cara murphy Cheesehead

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    you are right.:sneaky:
     
  5. pduck

    pduck Cheesehead

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    Even if Peppers is past his prime, other teams will still need to respect him. This should free up Matthews, et. al. We're not such a one-person defense anymore.
     
  6. wist43

    wist43 Cheesehead

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    I think a couple of things portend well for our defensive front this year.

    1) The addition of Peppers gives us a dimension of size and ability we haven't had since Reggie White. Granted he is 34, and isn't what he once was, but Peppers is a stud football player. He needs to have his snaps measured out, but if he is handled correctly both in terms of snap count and how he is used - he could be a huge boost for our defense.

    2) The subtraction of both Pickett and Jolly. I love both of those guys as players in a 3-4, but we haven't played a 3-4 for at least the last 3 years - we've been playing the 2-4 predominantly, and have only been playing base 3-4 about 20% of the time.

    This, combined with the fact that Capers used Pickett and Raji in a "jumbo nickel" was a disaster for our defense - not b/c of the players themselves, but b/c of how they were used. With Pickett and Jolly gone, Capers really can't play that idiotic "jumbo nickel", and will necessarily have to go to a more mobile, diverse, multiple look front in nickel situations - that can only help.

    It will necessitate that the young DL talent that TT has brought in will be on the field in those situations - either in a 3-3 look, or if Capers can't tear himself away from the 2-4, at least it will have Peppers at OLB which would be close to matching how the Niners run it with Aldon Smith.

    The downside to running the 2-4 that way would be that Hawk and Brad Jones would still be on the field full time, but at least we'd be much more athletic and mobile in front of them.
     
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  7. brandon2348

    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

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    There is also talk of Capers using the 1-3-7 psycho package that they might finally have the right personnel to run. I don't see Peppers playing with his hand on the dirt other then obvious passing downs. They want to use him in the new "elephant position" which is kind of what you described. Maybe Bradford could be the guy in the 2-4 set and replace Jones.

    Overall I believe the D-line should be much improved and make a significant jump in positive direction, especially in the area of pass rush. Lot's of 2nd, 3rd, 4th year talent there along with Raji moving back to nose where he is best suited and last productive. Mike Daniels appears to be a new leader on defense and if he makes another jump from his play last year, he could have a huge impact. It usually takes D-lineman a few year to develop.

    Capers has the pieces and he really needs to put it together this year as patience is wearing thin.
     
  8. brandon2348

    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

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    Peppers does something for this defense that it hasn't had, which is presence opposite side of "Claymaker". Teams wont be able to double team both of them so yes, that alone should improve defense immensely.
     
  9. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I got booed in this forum last summer for saying that the Packers needed to watch Jolly's snap count. He tired as the season went on and then sustained a season-ending neck injury. Obviously the injury wasn't necessarily related to age being away for three years, but his conditioning was and if the Packers are smart they will watch Peppers' snap count. We do have some talent in Perry and others who can learn from a good veteran and provide him some breathers. Assuming most things go as usual, we should get into the playoffs but we need a Dline that still has some spring in the playoffs. Hopefully the replacement of Jolly and Pickett with youth will result in additional speed and stamina more than a loss in experience and savvy.
     
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  10. Zartan

    Zartan Cheesehead

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    No doubt the D-Line has improved considerably. Peppers is a great addition hopefully he brings the heat oppside of Mathews. Mathews needs someone oppside to bring the heat something the D line hasent done lately.

    Also with Raji in a prove it year hopefully he has a beast of a season I hope.
     
  11. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    Well, Peppers has been basically an injury free, extreme durability guy his entire career. If he comes up hurt here in GB, we will know that the injury bug is really a true GB curse now. I think that with a HEALTHY clay maker, peppers, Daniels..... we should be a potent pash rushing team. I also think the secondary will produce a lot more picks due to QB pressure and that we have some guys back to a healthy status back there.
     
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  12. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I think with the addition of Peppers and getting more athletic on the DL the pass rush will be improved compared to last season. I´m a little worried about the run defense though.
     
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  13. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Couple of things:

    1) It won't really be that hard to improve on last year's dline

    2) While everyone is focused on how well Peppers performs or if Jones can make a jump in his second season, I think the real key to this year's dline will be the performance of Raji at NT. If Raji can, contrary to his career thus far, play well at NT then this dline should be pretty good. If he continues to get shoved around one-on-one, then it won't matter how much pressure the team brings in the pass rush, team's will just run up the middle all day because we don't have the inside linebackers to compensate for a weak NT.

    It's weird, but for me the two biggest question marks on the team this year are the two guys playing the center of the line on either side of the ball.
     
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  14. brandon2348

    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

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    I really think the biggest question is if Clinton-Dix can come in and kill it at safety position.
     
  15. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    If our NT stinks the safeties won't matter. If teams can get 5 yards per carry on the ground, the safety play isn't really going to mean much. Also, people seem to expect HaHa to come in and know the defense inside-and-out, that's not really too realistic. It may well happen, but it wouldn't be surprising to see Hyde as the starter at the beginning of the year.
     
  16. brandon2348

    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

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    Right, I suppose I am banking on Raji moving
    back to nose where he was last productive and being on a "prove it deal". Boyd could step up as some of these young guys have to pan out you would think.
     
  17. wist43

    wist43 Cheesehead

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    We only played a 3-4 about 20% of the time over the past few years - so we didn't have anybody playing NT most of the time anyway.

    In Capers "jumbo nickel", he had Pickett and Raji lined up as DT's, not on the nose.

    If we are going to play nickel 75-80% of the time, then stopping the run isn't going to be determined by how Raji performs at NT, it will be more dependent upon how Capers uses the DL in the nickel. Playing the "jumbo nickel" was a disaster the way Capers has played it.

    Given that we no longer have Pickett, I would expect that Capers will necessarily have to play more 3-3. If all Capers does is substitute Boyd for Pickett in continuing to play the "jumbo nickel", then I would expect our pathetic run defense to remain pathetic.

    We simply don't have the talent at ILB to get away with playing the "jumbo nickel" the way Capers plays it.

    I still like Raji as a player; granted, he underperformed last year, but that was a much Capers fault as anything else.
     
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  18. brandon2348

    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

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    I am curious if that 20% was played primarily on first down or short yardage situations such as 2 and 4. If so, I think the nose tackle situation is very important. If you can hold teams on first down it really increases your chances of getting off the field.

    I don't know. I've heard so many different things from 1-3-7 psycho package this year to running less scheme's. I suppose we will just have to wait and see. Bottom line is Capers has the pieces on the D-line and with Peppers added he needs to figure it out.
     
  19. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Don't know what you're talking about there as Raji had by far his best season playing NT in 2010.
     
  20. wist43

    wist43 Cheesehead

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    Where we usually got gashed in the run game was when we were in the nickel. If we were in the 3-4, we were pretty good against the run - witness the Forty-Niner games where we played the 3-4 more often.

    Depending on opponent, Capers would utilize the 3-4, but for the most part Capers used the 2-4 as his base. Anytime an opponent trotted out 3 wides, he would counter with the 2-4, regardless of down/distance. So, on 1st and 10 Capers would have Pickett and Raji at DT, and Brad Jones and Hawk at LB - those were the only 4 guys in the box. If it was a run and the RB cleared the line, our LB's simply aren't very good and we would get gashed a lot of the time. We simply don't have the talent at ILB to line up like that IMO.

    I don't think we will play more 3-4 this year than last, but I do think we will play more 3-3 and 4-2; and when we do play 2-4, we will have Peppers on the field as one of the LB, so that makes that alignment better as well.

    Still, our ILB's are below average, so we have to hope improved line play in front of them will help them as well as in the back end.

    I do think we'll be better this year - can't be much worse. Statistically, we fielded one of the worst defenses in the league last year.
     
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  21. brandon2348

    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

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    Good insight. I see the unit easily being better rushing the passer. Lets just hope they can improve against the run.

    Everyone knows about middle linebacker situation. Its why a lot of people wanted C.J mosley including myself but he was gone and ended up with Dix.
     
  22. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Geez, stop blaming not playing more base defense for the poor run defense. Take a look at the Eagles last drive vs. the Packers in which they killed 9:32 minutes off the clock running the ball vs. our base defense.

    The scheme wasn't the problem, it was the talent level on defense.
     
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  23. brandon2348

    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

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    Don't forget about the Bears game at Lambeau. They ran the clock out too.
     
  24. wist43

    wist43 Cheesehead

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    I said "usually" CW... you're reading what you want to read. You cite one example of when we struggled to stop the run in the base - but as everyone knows, we only played base about 20% of the time.

    Since we finished 29th against the run, giving up an average of 167 yds/game - it only stands to reason that the vast majority of that yardage came against the nickel.

    And if it was the talent - then that means that TT has been stinking it up pretty bad, yet I don't hear many people beating that drum??
     
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  25. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Would like to repost my belief that Datone Jones is Mike Neal 2.0 (I have to apologize to Jerel Worthy for that one). He needs to work on his run stopping just to see snaps in our Nickel packages, and would probably do better dropping weight to play LB.
     

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