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Khryi Thornton Thread

Discussion in '2014 Draft Archive' started by Wood Chipper, May 9, 2014.

  1. Bensalama21

    Bensalama21 Ben

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    Seems like this draft is one of his best when it comes to getting steals!
     
  2. Pack-12

    Pack-12 Cheesehead

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    So basically if Ted is getting ready to pick a player that's high up on his board he should head on over to CBS or Walterfootball and see where that guy is "projected" to go so he knows if they'll be available later and if those sites have the player being picked 4 or 5 rounds later he should go ahead and pick a player he has rated lower because he can "probably" get the guy he likes the best later on... I'm not sure that actually makes sense. In fact it sounds ******* stupid.
     
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  3. wist43

    wist43 Cheesehead

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    This pick is similar to the Datone Jones pick from last year - like the player, don't like the pick.

    Capers runs the 2-4 at least 50% of the time - in 2011 he ran it 62% of the time!!! Haven't been able to find a breakdown of how much he ran it last year, but if at all possible - Capers is gonna be in that disaster of an alignment.

    So that being the case - when is he gonna get on the field?? Chances are, barring injury, he's gonna be inactive most weeks. Who else ya gonna sit?? Daniels, Raji, D. Jones, Perry, Guion, Neal, Mulumba (whom I have high regard for), Worthy??

    You know Brad Jones and AJ Hawk are gonna be on the field 24/7 in that God-awful 2-4. Matthews is constant. That's 3 out of the front 6 spots that won't change - when is the guy even gonna see the field??

    An argument can be made that he was a pick for next year, as Raji, Neal, and Perry will all likely be gone... but even then, if Capers is still our DC, he won't see the field much then either.

    With Capers as our DC, no matter how you slice it - this is a wasted pick. Decent player, but a wasted pick.
     
  4. Pack-12

    Pack-12 Cheesehead

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    You act like we only use 2 DL for the whole season. We had 5 DL play over 250 snaps last year and 2 of them are gone. If the guy is good enough he will get snaps. There's more than 11 people that play defense, that's why the rosters have 53 players on them.
     
  5. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    Exactly and Datone Jones has shown that he can play head up. Wouldnt be surprised to see Datone Jones out there as a hybrid DE OLB on some downs.
     
  6. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    So if Datone becomes a good player, they'll keep him off the field? I don't see that happening.


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  7. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    Apparently thy like the versatility of this kid, he's played the 0,3, and 5 tech at Southern Miss. The team also cited his fight and effort despite playing on a losing team. Perhaps this is a further indictment of BJ Raji's play last season, a very stout nose tackle up through the first half of the season and then a swinging door once Rodgers went down with an injury.
     
  8. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    I am perplexed as well with the Packers DL outlook. I am still hoping that Jolly comes back, I thought he was looking good before the injury. MM has hinted that there will be differences to the Packer defense from last season. I hope it means no more of the 2-4. I am not sure what the plan is for Thornton. Maybe they see him as our NT in 2015. I like having lots of bodies for the DL. Late in games, when the OL has tired and worn down, fresh defensive legs can really help.
     
  9. wist43

    wist43 Cheesehead

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    I like our defensive linemen - I liked them last year.

    Still, we had one of the worst defenses in the league... as long as Capers is our DC, I don't see that changing. MM has given some lip service to "the defense will be better" - but the only way that happens is if he forces Capers out of that mind-numbing 2-4, and I simply don't see that happening.

    Capers wants to play the 2-4 as much as he can... a leopard doesn't change his spots.
     
  10. wist43

    wist43 Cheesehead

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    Well, they're going to have keep some good players off the field no matter what - are they not?? Daniels, Peppers, Jones, Raji, Perry, Worthy, Neal, Guion, Boyd, Mulumba, and now Thorton??

    Only need 2 of them at a time... somebody's gonna sit ;)
     
  11. Einstein McFly

    Einstein McFly Cheesehead

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    Uh, by 2-4 I think you mean nickel. In nickel, you're defending the pass and bring a dlineman off and a defensive back on. On third an long you want your best pass rushing lineman, so probably Daniels and Datone Jones, but you need guys to rotate in. If the other team is mixing it up, you need someone who can hopefully play both the pass and run which Jones, Worthy and probably Thornton are supposed to be able to do. You'll see that over and over again against passing teams like the lions and bears which is why having a good fifth defensive back like Hayward or Hyde is really clutch.

    A 3-4 base defense is for use against running teams like the vikes, 9ers and seahawks and if they're running the ball over and over again you need to have fresh guys that stuff the run. People seem to forget how many games we lost in the last five minutes last year because we didn't/couldn't stop the run. Drafting a guy like this who can do that without totally giving up on pass rush is really important.

    Also, I doubt Gion is going to make this team unless Worthy really falls apart.
     
  12. Einstein McFly

    Einstein McFly Cheesehead

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    You do realize that every team in the league plays nickel for many many snaps a game, right? It's not a "Capers" thing, it's a "this is a passing league" thing.
     
  13. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    Perry is our ROLB. Why would you group him with those others?
     
  14. wist43

    wist43 Cheesehead

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    Most teams play a 4-2 or 3-3 nickel - which, given our personnel is what we should be running.

    If the strength of our front "seven" is in our defensive line, and our greatest weakness is our ILB's - what sense does it make to put together game plans that have us playing a 2-4??

    The answer is obvious - it doesn't make any sense at all.

    Worse than that - Capers plays the 2-4 on 1st and 10, 2nd and 6, 3rd and 3, lol... which is why we get run over all the time. We allowed 167 yds/game rushing last year - good for 29th in the league.

    All that defensive line talent, and the obvious lack of ILB talent, and we're playing a scheme that sits the defensive linemen, and plays the ILB's??

    What's wrong with that picture??
     
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  15. wist43

    wist43 Cheesehead

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    Perry is a fish out of water at LOLB (Matthews played on the right side last year).

    Which speaks to how Capers misuses everyone - the Perry at LB experiment hasn't worked out... solution?? Put his hand in the dirt in pass rushing subpackages.

    Of course Capers will never do that - and Perry will sign with another team as soon as his contract expires. He said he had no interest in playing LB in the NFL - so what do we do?? We draft him and immediately stick him at LB, lol... Makes a lot of sense, huh??
     
  16. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    Capers was the coordinator the whole season in which the run defense was good the first part of the year and awful the second part of it.

    Same scheme. Different results. To me, that says players doing something wrong.


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  17. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    For all of you folks who always claim oh this guy won't fit because he's to small and he's not a 3-4 this that blah blah blah. Explain this pick....while your at it explain why Pittsburgh a 3-4 team took Shazier who was trashed by many on this board because he was to "small" and wouldn't fit.
     
  18. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Is this the second, third, or more iteration of a fan not understanding the 2-4 is really a 4-2 with more flexibility? That lack of understanding is why wist43 includes Perry, Neal, and Mulumba in with the “only need 2 of them”: Because he doesn’t understand the formation. Also, from what they’ve said, Peppers will be in the LBs room and will not have his hand in the dirt a lot of the time. Get better play out the safeties and the two ILBs in the 2-4-5 and it will miraculously transform into a great formation.
    - - - -
    And crap on Capers all you want but since Collins career-ending injury he’s had Burnett, MD Jennings, McMillian, Banjo, Richardson, Bush, and Peprah to work with at safety. What DC could make a good safety duo out of those players? And some of the same posters who crap on Capers, crap on the ILBs he has to work with as well. Nothing wrong with criticizing the GM, HC, coordinators, coaches or players, but a little consistency would be nice.
     
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  19. Dylan Hoppe

    Dylan Hoppe Cheesehead

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    C'mon guys. It only takes two buyers to end up with a "fan's reach" TT loves a guy and hears somebody else loves him just as much and TT grabs him early to keep him from the other team.


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  20. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Perhaps we only use 2 DL so much because we don't have any others that would actually help the pass defense? Seriously, as little as AJ Hawk brings to the pass defense, he still provides more than putting CJ Wilson into the game.

    People complain about the 2-4 but I have yet to hear anyone actually explain how putting a terrible pass rusher in on the dline would help the defense.
     
  21. wist43

    wist43 Cheesehead

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    You're not putting "a terrible pass rusher" on the field, you putting a guy like Perry on the field, doing what he wants to do, i.e. rush with hand in the dirt. You're putting a concentration of pass rushers on the field at the same time - suppose a line of Daniels, D. Jones, and Perry; with Matthews and Neal on the outside, and one of B. Jones/Hawk/Mulumba either shading for the run, pass, or blitz. That's just one lineup example.

    Raji's strength used to be inside quickness and penetration - when was the last time he was used in that role?? He's been overused, and misused for the past 3 years.

    Even last year before we signed Peppers, we would have been better off playing a 4 man line in the nickel than the 2-4. Perry and Neal at DE's, and Daniels and D. Jones inside, with Matthews and any one of the 3 LB's mentioned.

    Now with Peppers, I'd argue that same lineup, but Peppers on the line, and Neal at LB.

    Just about anything is better than what Capers has been doing. We've been getting killed in that alignment for years - how could something else be worse??
     
  22. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    ...Or it says our age and lack of depth up front caught up with us as the season progressed. Doesn't help that we keep adding 4-3 type, gap-shooting defensive linemen that haven't contained the run or opened lanes for the LBs.
     
  23. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    Whether it's age or lack of depth or whatever reason, the players weren't getting it done.


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  24. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    I get that you're reacting to the "Fire Capers" sentiment around here. Personally, I don't blame Capers for everything but he has plenty of input on the composition of the roster and I'm not sure how well he's adapted to the personnel he has.

    Also, it's not necessarily a condemnation of Capers to point out that sometimes change breathes new life into things.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2014
  25. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I´m not sure Capers has a lot of input on how the roster is set up.
     

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