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JROD & THE BRUISER

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by texaspackerbacker, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    I'm a little high today (not chemically) on Badger-mania, so I will throw this out, and lump it in with another suggestion discussed in other forum.

    I'd like to see the Packers give Mike Bruesewitz a tryout as a TE. Put 20 or 30 pounds on him and who knows. He's a fighter who ought to have the toughness to block; He's a hard worker; He ought to be able to catch in traffic and hold onto the ball.

    Jordon Rodgers - Aaron's little brother comes out this year - maybe a 7th round pick, maybe a post-draft FA. If I was Thompson, I would first talk it over with big brother, but it seems like the kid has potential. Supposedly they are close and he preferred advice from Aaron to what he got from his college position coach. Also, he would probably be more willing to accept a practice squad spot than a lot of guys. A factor would be what the Packers think of Harrell and Coleman, as one or the other would probably have to go if Rodgers was retained, but I'd favor giving the kid a try.
     
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  2. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Not sure if I'm interested in a guy who hasn't played college ftball. That's such a massive project.

    Jordan Rodgers is not an NFL QB.
     
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  3. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    Love the post, tex. Feeling great about my Badgers, too!

    ivo, I don't think transitioning a college basketball player to TE in football is nearly the project you think it is. See Graham, Jimmy. Quite frankly, I think it takes greater intelligence and split-second decision-making to play college basketball (especially in a program like Wisconsin's) than it takes to run routes as a TE. Since so few college basketball players in the 6'5" to 6'8" range will never play NBA, I'm a bit surprised more of them don't try to make the jump over to TE or WR: these guys are usually great athletes, well-built to go up and catch the ball. Blocking from the TE or WR position is usually a matter of toughness and willingness. Not hard to teach, not much in the way of technique. These kids grew up watching football, playing Madden. I'll bet they can pick up a route tree and blocking assignments pretty quickly.

    I'm not actually saying we should sign Bruiser as a TE project. He stands to make more money playing basketball in Europe (without the risk of head injury) but, as stated above, I'm surprised that more college basketball players remaining stateside don't try this...
     
  4. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    hahaha Let him keep the 'do for padding inside the helmet. You could have mentioned Antonio Gates in addition to Graham. I don't know if he is good enough for Europe, but Israel, Turkey, or the Philippines are also options. Go Badgers!
     
  5. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    ...Yeah, Mike doesn't really shoot it that well. Israel, Turkey, and/or the Philippines are all more likely destinations for him. Still good money + opportunity to travel/see the world.
     
  6. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Graham played a season of college ftball at Miami.

    Gates was given a scholarship under nick satan to play for MSU in ftball.

    Both these players have some history of ftball
     
  7. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I believe Gates never played college football. I believe the story was "Saten" (was that a Freudian slip?) would not allow Gates to play roundball, so he left MSU without ever taking a snap. Strictly b-ball at Western Michigan, I think it was.

    Graham didn't play as an undergrad. After his roundball eligibility was exhausted, he stuck around for a year of grad school and played football. Caught something like 20 balls.

    I know absolutely nothing about this Badger (zero interest in basketball for some years now) so I have no opinion on his prospects.
     
  8. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    Sure.

    I just disagree with the notion that a kid must play college football in order to succeed as an NFL TE or WR. Seems like any team could plug a physical specimen like Jimmy Graham into their practice squad and have a contributor in short order. TE and WR are "low football IQ" positions, IMO.

    I don't think the year of football at Miami is the reason Graham became a star TE with the Saints; I think it's the reason he was noticed by NFL scouts...
     
  9. Packer Fan in SD

    Packer Fan in SD Cheesehead

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    HRE you are right. Gates never played college football. He did transfer because Saban wanted him to only play FB but he wanted to play both. But he never did.
     
  10. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I think if a major college power forward had run routes in high school he could be an NFL prospect, but I think the athletic measurables would need to be outstanding for a team to invest time in developing him.

    A typical starting major college power forward would typically have soft hands, good eye-hand coordination, agility, good hips and an outstanding 2-3 step burst.

    As noted earlier, the guy would have to want to take the physical punishment. Crashing boards can be physical, but nothing like knowing some guy could take your head off at any time crossing the middle.
     
  11. Packer Fan in SD

    Packer Fan in SD Cheesehead

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    I also think that for every basketball player that makes the NFL having never played football in college, there are maybe thousands that never make it, heck, there are thousands that play in college for every position that never make it.
     
  12. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    That could be the case but I'm not sure whether it's accurate to think there are "thousands" of college basketball players really trying to catch on with the NFL. I follow college basketball rather closely and I don't hear much about kids attempting this sort of cross over. (FWIW, I know Bruce Ellington at the University of South Carolina plays both sports but he is rather short, 5'9", and compact; not what I had in mind in terms of basketball players with the physical tools to really excel as big NFL pass-catchers.)

    Seems like plenty of high school athletes come to college wanting to play both sports but few ever get the opportunity. In major college athletics, I believe kids are encouraged to pick a sport and stick to it for a couple of reasons:
    (1) Football is a fall semester sport. The college basketball season extends across both the fall semester and the spring semesters. Due to the overlap, it's difficult for a kid to play both sports at the collegiate level. Academically, it poses a serious challenge unless the kid is smart.
    (2) Football and basketball coaches at major colleges usually earn very lucrative salaries and their continued employment is often dependent on the success of their programs. Where careers are on the line, nobody is interested in sharing their players. Especially where an injury in the other sport could blow up their season.

    I suspect the vast majority of basketball players with the physical tools to thrive as TEs or WRs were steered away from football after high school and that few of them ever made a concerted effort to get back to the sport.

    This is probably because many division 1 college basketball players can have lucrative careers playing their sport overseas and because a basketball career is usually more attractive. Statistically speaking, basketball careers last longer and carry fewer long-term health risks than football. Because the sport is played worldwide, the market for a basketball player's talents is also much greater.

    Nonetheless, I'm a bit surprised we don't see a few more Dale Mosses: kids that exhaust their college eligibility in hoops with no prospects of playing overseas but who, nonetheless, possess the physical gifts to become NFL pass catchers. Perhaps we'll see more of this in the years to come- it's no secret that Gates, Graham, even Tony Gonzalez come from basketball backgrounds.

    This is being quickly legislated out of the NFL and it's the reason TEs and slot receivers have become increasingly popular as pass catchers in today's offenses. They're not losing their heads over the middle anymore.
     
  13. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I'm aware of the rules. It's also against the law to drink and drive.
     
  14. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    Poor analogy.
     
  15. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    How so?
     
  16. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    A drunk can frequently drive without being caught.

    An NFL linebacker or defensive back is filmed from multiple angles on every snap: if he violates the league's new standards by launching or by leading with the helmet he's virtually certain to receive a fine or a suspension from the league.

    It's pretty tough to put a hard, clean hit (i.e., with the shoulder) on a guy moving across the middle of the field. The shoulder is biologically designed to give under such impacts so the body absorbs a great deal of energy. When your target is 6'5" and 260 pounds, the physics make it unlikely that you're hurting him more than you're hurting yourself in such an attempt.

    I'm sure you can point me to a few crushing hits across the middle in recent years but this misses the larger trend: offenses are attacking the middle of the field because receivers aren't getting killed the way they used to and the league will continue to heavily police these sort of hits going forward.
     
  17. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    It happens every week.

    I'm aware of the larger trend. But until they make it flag football, players will get clocked over the middle. It's unavoidable.
     
  18. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    I agree that it's a contact sport. I disagree with the characterization that receivers are getting "clocked" over the middle on a weekly basis (the type of injuries occurring with TEs and slot receivers in recent years don't support that, either).

    Nonetheless, it's a physical sport and it takes a rough-and-tumble mentality to succeed in football. Seems like one could find this mindset in many college basketball power forwards. Going back to the original post, I think Bruiser certainly qualifies.
     
  19. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Sure they are. I would wager there were at least 16 defenseless receiver penalties last season.

    And those plays don't even include the legal hits to the head which are more frequent. Even if every single defensive player in the league lowered his angle of attack, you'd still get head hits on a weekly basis. They're unavoidable.
     
  20. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    Cops, Firemen, and most of all Soldiers are at 10 times the risk for less than 1% of the pay of an NFL player. If they don't want to risk scrambling their brain, they can just turn town that COLOSSALLY big money they get for playing a fun game. Who among us wouldn't trade places with them?
     
  21. Alex

    Alex Cheesehead

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    I'm not into basketball but if the guy has the tools to be a good TE AND be a Badger I'd welcome the opportunity.
     
  22. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    In 256 regular season NFL games last season, 16 defenseless receiver penalties is not a significant total.

    A legal hit to the head, which I understand as a hit with the shoulder, does not present the same risk of injury or concussion as a hit with the helmet. The shoulder gives way and the defender's body absorbs a great deal of the impact. The helmet, on the other hand, does not give way and it can be a weapon on the football field.

    I decided to check into some actual data. According to spotrac.com, the NFL issued 33 fines for "Hits to Defenseless Players" but if you examine the notes accompanying each fine, you'll see that many of these came as a result of hitting a defenseless QB, offensive lineman, or RB. Some of these fines came on special teams plays. Counting those fines that were unclear, I have a total of 16 fines for hits to a defenseless TE or WR. There were just three or four such fines for hits to TEs. In 256 games. Plus there's no way to separate the hits that came over the middle from those that occurred outside the hashes. You'll also note there were just 17 fines for helmet-to-helmet hits issued last season. This doesn't indicate the total number of such penalties that were called last season, but it does shed some light on the number of crushing hits that warranted further sanction after-the-fact: there weren't many.

    Irrespective of the league's significant interest in curbing these sort of hits, frankly it's impractical for defensive players to hit high on large pass catchers over the middle anyway. That's not the way to bring down a 6'5", 260 pound man.

    Coupled with the lack of head/neck/spinal injuries to WRs and especially TEs in a league where teams are throwing across the middle more and more often, the data doesn't really support the conclusion that these guys are getting "clocked" on a weekly basis over the middle, especially the large pass catching TEs that have taken the league by storm in recent years.

    I'm not interested in quibbling with you over this ad nauseum. I don't believe the physical danger is as great as you seem to think it is. We can agree to disagree.
     
  23. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    No he didnt play college ftball, I mentioned the scholarship bc he obviously had talent early on in ftball to warrant a scholarship
     
  24. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    I watched several vanddy games last season and J. Rodgers does not seem to even come close to having that pre-NFL look to him. This is not even close to a P manning / Eli manning situation. Jordan rodgers is NOT good, period.
     

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