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Heyjoe4

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The Packers significantly regressed on offense in red zone efficiency last season. While they led the league in points scored per opportunity in 2020 they dropped to 19th last season.
Yeah it seemed like they could move the ball between the 20s at will, only to stop cold in the red zone. I'm not sure why. Coverage certainly tightens, there's only so much territory to cover. But I would think a guy as talented as Rodgers would over come that. It will be a continuing challenge with the loss of Adams.
 

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Yeah it seemed like they could move the ball between the 20s at will, only to stop cold in the red zone. I'm not sure why. Coverage certainly tightens, there's only so much territory to cover. But I would think a guy as talented as Rodgers would over come that. It will be a continuing challenge with the loss of Adams.

Maybe Tonyan not performing up to potential early in the season and then suffering a season ending injury factored into the offense struggling in the red zone. In 2020, he was second on the team in TD receptions in the red zone with seven.
 

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Yeah it seemed like they could move the ball between the 20s at will, only to stop cold in the red zone. I'm not sure why. Coverage certainly tightens, there's only so much territory to cover. But I would think a guy as talented as Rodgers would over come that. It will be a continuing challenge with the loss of Adams.
It seemed that once the offense got into the red zone, the first and third down end zone shots were going towards Adams. I think the opposition defenses caught on.
 

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Maybe Tonyan not performing up to potential early in the season and then suffering a season ending injury factored into the offense struggling in the red zone. In 2020, he was second on the team in TD receptions in the red zone with seven.
Yeah and TEs make for good red zone targets. The area is limited so even average secondaries will cover tight. Big targets like TEs, especially TEs who can jump, help a lot.
 

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It seemed that once the offense got into the red zone, the first and third down end zone shots were going towards Adams. I think the opposition defenses caught on.

Adams was only targeted on 16 of 131 first and third down plays in the red zone last season.
 

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Adams was only targeted on 16 of 131 first and third down plays in the red zone last season.
(Where do you come up with these stats? I'm just curious. Does it require a lot of digging?)

And that stat is amazing, and sad. So much for Rodgers only having eyes for Adams.

In addition to the WR group woes, GB needs a pass-catching TE to help out on the RZ.
 

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Adams was only targeted on 16 of 131 first and third down plays in the red zone last season.
And when the defense was such that AR12 had to throw it away? How many of the 131 were called runs? He may have gotten 12% of the targets but he most likely was the #1 read on a great more than that.
 

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And when the defense was such that AR12 had to throw it away? How many of the 131 were called runs? He may have gotten 12% of the targets but he most likely was the #1 read on a great more than that.
Yeah especially near the goal line. Adams had a great first step inside, then quickly broke outside and the ball was there. Amazing to watch. The defender can know it's coming and still not be able to defend against it.
 
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The Packers significantly regressed on offense in red zone efficiency last season. While they led the league in points scored per opportunity in 2020 they dropped to 19th last season.
Bobby started the season slow early on. Then about the time he warmed up? he injured.
They seem to really like Tyler Davis in limited looks last season, but I would naturally think that this year he has a better command of the playbook. Getting those bigger, sure handed TE’s more involved is going to be a key in being formidable in the Redzone.

Even Deguara was silently rising late last season. We should have better playbook options (than 2021) with all of these Packer veterans

(Edit: Just realized several points were brought up already above) might be an obvious area of improvement if we all see it.
 
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Bobby started the season slow early on. Then about the time he warmed up? he injured.
They seem to really like Tyler Davis in limited looks last season, but I would naturally think that this year he has a better command of the playbook. Getting those bigger, sure handed TE’s more involved is going to be a key in being formidable in the Redzone.

Even Deguara was silently rising late last season. We should have better playbook options (than 2021) with all of these Packer veterans

(Edit: Just realized several points were brought up already above) might be an obvious area of improvement if we all see it.
I hope you're right because that TE group doesn't look real solid right now. But yeah, guys can step up big from year to year.
 
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I hope you're right because that TE group doesn't look real solid right now. But yeah, guys can step up big from year to year.
I truly believe it’s a TE “by committee” approach. I think we will see more of Tyler Davis abs Deguara tested early this year. Both have another year in the system and both have shown glimpses of solid play in limited targets.
It’s also quite possible that Tonyan will be in a more limited role for several regular games as they gradually ramp him up early in the season. Just a hunch, but expect a 2022 riser from either Deguara or Davis
 

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I truly believe it’s a TE “by committee” approach. I think we will see more of Tyler Davis abs Deguara tested early this year. Both have another year in the system and both have shown glimpses of solid play in limited targets.
It’s also quite possible that Tonyan will be in a more limited role for several regular games as they gradually ramp him up early in the season. Just a hunch, but expect a 2022 riser from either Deguara or Davis

None of the TEs on the roster are what anybody should consider above-average. This year’s QB room is definitely going to be a committee-of-mediocrity; normally this would be fine since there aren’t many good tight ends in the league, but oh boy is that going to put more pressure on the rookie receivers to produce.
 

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None of the TEs on the roster are what anybody should consider above-average. This year’s QB room is definitely going to be a committee-of-mediocrity; normally this would be fine since there aren’t many good tight ends in the league, but oh boy is that going to put more pressure on the rookie receivers to produce.
I think you mean "TE room" and I agree with you. DeGuarra didn't do anything to show me he's more that a poor man's Richard Rodgers, and I don't remember Davis playing. I think the FA market for TEs is tapped out and a trade seems unlikely.

One possibility, it other WRs step up, is to move Lazard to TE. He's tall, strong and can catch the ball. He's about 20-30 lbs too light, but he's a tough guy. Not an ideal situation, especially considering he's the #1 WR right now....... Yikes!

Or they can grab a TE when teams start trimming rosters. Not gonna find an All Pro that way, but it may be the only thing Gluten can do.
 

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(Where do you come up with these stats? I'm just curious. Does it require a lot of digging?)

I use Stathead to come up with those stats. It's a great tool and doesn't require a lot of work. You need to pay for it though.

And when the defense was such that AR12 had to throw it away? How many of the 131 were called runs? He may have gotten 12% of the targets but he most likely was the #1 read on a great more than that.

You can take a look at the numbers here:


None of the TEs on the roster are what anybody should consider above-average.

In my opinion Tonyan should be considered an above average tight end when healthy.

One possibility, it other WRs step up, is to move Lazard to TE. He's tall, strong and can catch the ball. He's about 20-30 lbs too light, but he's a tough guy. Not an ideal situation, especially considering he's the #1 WR right now....... Yikes!

I fully expect someone else than Lazard to actually be the #1 receiver this season.
 

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I use Stathead to come up with those stats. It's a great tool and doesn't require a lot of work. You need to pay for it though.




You can take a look at the numbers here:




In my opinion Tonyan should be considered an above average tight end when healthy.



I fully expect someone else than Lazard to actually be the #1 reAs far as Lazardceiver this season.
As far as Lazard, I'm probably too optimistic. He's been around a while now, and what we see may be his best. That leaves Watkins or another veteran FA like Julio Jones to take the #1 WR spot and put up a 1,000 yd season. It won't be a rookie, barring a miracle.
 

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In my opinion Tonyan should be considered an above average tight end when healthy.
TDs are the most variable receiving stat and Tonyan does nothing after he’s been contacted by a defender. He’s good at catching the ball and that’s about it. I could see the argument for him being the leagues average TE but no way a guy that can’t do anything after the catch is above-average (especially when he’s not a great blocker).
 

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As far as Lazard, I'm probably too optimistic. He's been around a while now, and what we see may be his best. That leaves Watkins or another veteran FA like Julio Jones to take the #1 WR spot and put up a 1,000 yd season. It won't be a rookie, barring a miracle.

I believe either Watkins or Watson need to become the most productive receiver for the passing offense to be successful.

TDs are the most variable receiving stat and Tonyan does nothing after he’s been contacted by a defender. He’s good at catching the ball and that’s about it. I could see the argument for him being the leagues average TE but no way a guy that can’t do anything after the catch is above-average (especially when he’s not a great blocker).

Tonyan has averaged 4.76 yards after the catch per reception over the past two seasons. While that's not elite by any means it isn't terrible either.
 

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I believe either Watkins or Watson need to become the most productive receiver for the passing offense to be successful.



Tonyan has averaged 4.76 yards after the catch per reception over the past two seasons. While that's not elite by any means it isn't terrible either.
Yeah we're in agreement that Lazard doesn't rise to true #1 WR status. This year it's more likely to be Watkins (or maybe Julio Jones if they can afford him) than Watson. And there's a good case to grab OBJ for later in the year when everyone is banged up.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love nothing more than for Watson to put up 1,000 plus yards and 8-10 TDs. That's just a long shot. But who knows. If he can get tight with Rodgers in Training Camp and repeat it early, it could happen. Watson has to work on those drops though, and that might hold him back for a year, similar to Adams first two years.

That's another interesting stat on Tonyan. I knew he put up more YACs than say, Richard Rodgers. Or did he? What did RR do after the catch when he was in GB? It always looked like he caught the ball and then went no further.
 

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I believe either Watkins or Watson need to become the most productive receiver for the passing offense to be successful.



Tonyan has averaged 4.76 yards after the catch per reception over the past two seasons. While that's not elite by any means it isn't terrible either.

After the catch is not what i was talking about. He doesn’t break tackles. He gets exactly what the defense gives and nothing more. I’m not arguing he’s bad, just that he’s nothing special. He’s perfectly adequate, which is fine but not especially helpful to an unknown/young receiver group.
 

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After the catch is not what i was talking about. He doesn’t break tackles. He gets exactly what the defense gives and nothing more. I’m not arguing he’s bad, just that he’s nothing special. He’s perfectly adequate, which is fine but not especially helpful to an unknown/young receiver group.
Sounds to me like you guys are saying the same thing. If a TE (or any receiver) catches the ball and can't break the first tackle, his YAC numbers will be low. Sounds like Tonyan has a YAC just under 5. That's acceptable but certainly not great.

What he does seem to possess is the ability to find the end zone. I'd like for him to return to 2020 form. In the meantime, the TE group has more glaring problems than the WR group. The draft this year was weak for TEs. GB needs to improve that group, but I'm not sure they have the ability to do that this year.
 

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Sounds to me like you guys are saying the same thing. If a TE (or any receiver) catches the ball and can't break the first tackle, his YAC numbers will be low. Sounds like Tonyan has a YAC just under 5. That's acceptable but certainly not great.

What he does seem to possess is the ability to find the end zone. I'd like for him to return to 2020 form. In the meantime, the TE group has more glaring problems than the WR group. The draft this year was weak for TEs. GB needs to improve that group, but I'm not sure they have the ability to do that this year.

Yards after catch is different than yards after contact. Defense might be in zone so defender is 4 yards from Tonyan when he catches it and Tonyan can run before defender tackles him.
 

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Yards after catch is different than yards after contact. Defense might be in zone so defender is 4 yards from Tonyan when he catches it and Tonyan can run before defender tackles him.
Thanks Sunshine. That's interesting. I guess I should have known. Now I do!
 

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After the catch is not what i was talking about. He doesn’t break tackles. He gets exactly what the defense gives and nothing more. I’m not arguing he’s bad, just that he’s nothing special. He’s perfectly adequate, which is fine but not especially helpful to an unknown/young receiver group.

Gotcha. You're right, Tonyan doesn't break any tackles.
 

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