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Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Whatthehellsgoinonouthere, Sep 9, 2013.

  1. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    No way I would go back to a 4-3, it takes a season, or two of adjustment for players to adapt to that and not to mention it would involve personel changes.
     
  2. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    My only problem with Greene would be his lack of experience. I would not want a first-time DC for a team with Super Bowl expectations. That said, this is kind of an asinine discussion to be having right now, is it not? Didn't we already have TWO "Fire Capers" threads for this crap?
     
  3. RockyRaccoon

    RockyRaccoon Day Tripper

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    So replace Dom with the guy who is more similar in scheme to Dom than anyone else?

    I wouldn't mind seeing Greene get a shot.

    As far as going to a 4-3, our best defensive player, whom we just played handsomely, is a prototypical 3-4 outside linebacker. Where does he fit in a 4-3? I don't see him becoming a DE.
     
  4. Dan115

    Dan115 Cheesehead

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    [quotbut why have they wanted so long. He has been here how many years now? heTruth, post: 512618, member: 5878"]They will if we get bitch slapped out of the playoffs this season. Of course they won't fire him now. No one does that during the season in the NFL. Of very rarely at all.[/quote]
    Yes, butwhy
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  5. 12theTruth

    12theTruth Guest

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    This makes no sense! If you're going to post the quote at least provide the quote in its entirety! LOL
     
    • Old Old x 1
  6. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    I think that we need some younger DC to adapt to the changing ways of offense in the new style NFL. Capers, at one time was a D guru, but his lack of ability to adapt and overcome is just getting old. He seems to stuck in his ways and stubborn. Why stay with a scheme if its not working? Keep getting burned time after time....not just this young season, Im talking seasons past as well. He is old and times have changed. We need someone newer and more crafty.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. PFanCan

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    Why is that opinion "unpopular"? I think it is about right and most/all of the analyists have the Packers around #3 in the NFC. Some as high as #2, some as low as #5. So, IMO, #3 is in the middle and could be labeled as "popular".

    There is no doubt in my mind that the road to the SB goes through the stadium that the Packers just played in. So, yes, it will have to be done the hard way. But, Cincy is in the AFC, so no worries about them in the playoffs until (possibly) the SB.
     
  8. RockyRaccoon

    RockyRaccoon Day Tripper

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    The Niners are the best team in the NFC, but the West is no joke. Those teams will beat up on each other, and I wouldn't be surprised if Seattle comes out on top. 49ers could be as low as a #5 seed. I expect the #1 seed in the NFC will go to the winner of the South.
     
  9. Whatthehellsgoinonouthere

    Whatthehellsgoinonouthere Cheesehead

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    We PLAY Cincinnati week 3, I believe on the road, so we have to worry about them before we even get to the playoffs.
     
  10. PFanCan

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    Good point. I don't disagree.
     
  11. PFanCan

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    Yes, I know we play them in a couple weeks, but for some reason I thought you were worried about them come playoff time. I re-read your post and see that I just misread it.
     
  12. Dan115

    Dan115 Cheesehead

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    I am in a 3rd world country. The servers here are no where like the ones in the USA. I have to watch Packer games in the very early mornings. But I do get up and watch the Packers.
     
  13. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Ain't nothing wrong with a 3 seed.
    Giants twice, Ravens last year, us..... seems lower seeds make the Super Bowl more often than the 1 seed does.
    Or than the 2 seed does.

    As long as we're healthy-ish, and improving in late December-January, we got a chance.
    Keep us healthy please at key spots.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    No it's not clear. If fact, you still haven't responded to the jsonline article which details explosive plays by the 9ers when the scheme had Boldin doubled and bracketed. Of course you are under no obligation to respond to anything, but IMO it is disingenuous of you to continue posting as if there isn't evidence to the contrary of your "scheme is NOT working" idea.

    Burnett isn't a pro bowler but he is a starting quality NFL safety and IMO he's the only one on the roster. IMO it is noteworthy that McGinn had Burnett as the third most valuable player on the roster. Not because he's the third most talented but because of his importance to the team considering the depth behind him. A DC can "hide" one player in the D backfield but how could any DC hide two? Hayward was a play maker/ difference maker. A big play by either of them could have won the game. Lacy not fumbling in the red zone could have made a big difference. Finley catching the ball instead of having it intercepted could have made a big difference in that game.

    As I and others have posted many times, it's not how a team is playing early in the season, its which team is getting hot late. Anyone "certain" the Packers will be a three seed, should be happy. Once they're in...

    Having said that, if the Packers' defense is responsible for another playoff exit, it will be time for Capers to go IMO, even if personnel is partly or mostly to blame. Who should replace him? I'd prefer the best young 3-4 D coach be acquired. I don't know who that is, but I'm sure the Packers front office has a list of candidates.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
    • Agree Agree x 3
  15. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    Outstanding post.
     
  16. 12theTruth

    12theTruth Guest

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    Did the 49ers double Boldin on the most important play of the game? The final 4th and 2 conversion. I thought I read that they hadn't. There is NOTHING disingenuous as to what I said. I said Capers scheme didn't work. Did it? I'd say no. We gave up 400+ yards to yet another QB through the air not to mention 200 yards to a WR. As far as showing frustration about the lack of double teams, well I didn't have game tape so I couldn't go back and look just exactly how often bracket coverage was employed.

    Capers did double cover Boldin, but with what frequency? Isn't Capers ALSO partially responsible for the development (getting them prepared for game) of defensive players or is that just the position coaches? Also is it not Capers who made the decision not to waver from what looked to my like his scheme of holding Kap in the pocket. He was so afraid of Kaepernick to run to the edge that he wouldn't blitz or send his D-lineman in if at all towards the QB.

    So the Packers I've read in news reports were in scramble mode last week in practice because Burnett was expected to play and then on Friday (last minute) so McMillian didn't get "enough" reps to get ready. I think Capers and Co. dropped the ball as to getting their backups ready to go for Week 1 in the event they were needed.

    I just feel over the course of his time here with the Packers, Capers has failed to make the necessary in game adjustments when other teams have identified an area to attack and they have constant and sometimes unmitigated success for the remainder of that particular game.
     
    • Old Old x 1
  17. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    You were presented with evidence/analysis stating several occasions where it was the players at fault and not the scheme. You post there isn’t any way for you to confirm or contradict that analysis. But you are posting as if you have contradicted it (by continuing to post over and over it's the scheme). That is what is disingenuous about your posting.

    The number of yards surrendered overall and the number surrendered to an individual WR do not prove the scheme didn’t work because the cause could also be mistakes by the players, as the jsonline piece pointed out.
    This is from that same jsonline article:
    So according to this, the Packers defended the original route, then failed to contain Kaep, allowing him to escape to the defense’s left and Williams failed to make a play. That's at least in part the players' fault.
    According to McGinn the Packers blitzed on 32.5% of passing plays. That’s not a lot but that’s not “he wouldn’t blitz” either. And yes, Capers is responsible not only for the development of players but also for the work of his assistant coaches and how they develop players. But how good are the players who are not developing? One poster in particular (sorry I don’t recall who) frequently makes the point that until players who have left the Packers become good or great players elsewhere there’s no evidence the Packers coaches are failing to develop players. For example, how good is MD Jennings (why can’t the coaches make him add 20 pounds of muscle?); how would other DCs do if one of their only options was to put J. Bush on the field?
    But regarding Boldin, you admit you don’t know if the examples from the jsonline story are correct, you admit you don’t know how often Boldin was doubled and you are wrong about ‘Capers wouldn’t blitz’. So maybe you don’t know as much of the scheme as you think.

    I’m certainly not saying Capers bears no responsibility. What I am saying is IMO those that believe it’s only the scheme at fault are wrong. Give Capers another legit pass rusher to team with Clay and an enforcer in the defensive backfield (or at least two legit starting safties) and he’ll “all of a sudden” look much, much smarter and so will his scheme. Probably 2010 smart (Cullen Jenkins, Nick Collins, Charles Woodson…).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. RockyRaccoon

    RockyRaccoon Day Tripper

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    I think the pass rushers are already there, and I think we'll see them out in force starting in in Cincy. Dom schemed to contain Kaepernick's ability to scramble. I expect more of the same against RG3. But once we get past these running QBs, this pass rush will come alive.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  19. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    If Jennings and McMillian aren't worthy, does anyone then blame Thompson for not bringing in a veteran back there at safety, or is it the fault of the coaching for not getting these 2nd/3rd year safeties ready back there?

    Remember, it was Crabtree who torched us and many teams down the stretch last year when Kaepernick took over.
    Crabtree is expected to be back well before playoff time, luckily for them.

    Crabtree WITH Boldin, WITH Vernon Davis, and that running threat, that doesn't sound very enticing to me.
     
  20. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Really do you think there isn't someone out there who could do a better job? Is Dom the end all and we couldn't do any better?
     
  21. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    There maybe someone better, and his question was who..

    I ask that as well when someone says fire so and so, or we need a different player in ____ position. My question is always, who out there is better
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  22. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Yes I blame Thompson. I'm a fan of Ted's but everyone makes mistakes and IMO more attention needed to be paid to the safety position after Collins' career ended. Now of course that's easy for me to say since I don't have to find that player. And since I do understand the cap consequences I don't think Ted had to acquire a UFA. But if not that, then a player in the draft should have been targeted. BTW, I think there are two players currently at CB who would make better safeties than either MD or McM: Hayward and Hyde. But a mid-season switch would be very difficult.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Totally agree about Micah Hyde and safety.
    I believe most draftnicks and scouts penciled him down as a safety entering the NFL.
    If neither Jerron or Doc get it going by this season, I'd expect them to start to groom Hyde for safety next year along side Burnett.
     
  24. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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