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Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by refpacker, Mar 5, 2007.

  1. sbp_387

    sbp_387 Cheesehead

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    I would like to see willis magahee.
    this way we can take a good saftey in the first and a wr in the second!!!!
     
  2. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    You pretty much ignored eveyrthing in that post. :whippin:

    Moss is not a free agent. He's under contract. By the logic your using Brett Favre is on the market along with every single player in the NFL. That's not how it works. If that was the case then every year would be big.
     
  3. refpacker

    refpacker Cheesehead

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    I agree.....
     
  4. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    What draft pick would you give the Buffalo Bills? The Bills won't just give him to us. The asking price is a 2nd but a 3rd is more likely. Also are you willing to pay him simlar cash that Ladainian Tomlinson is making. That's what Drew Rosenhaus would like to get for his client.
     
  5. refpacker

    refpacker Cheesehead

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    Dude it was my post...I messed up when I said the FA market....AND NO NOT EVERYPLAYER IS AVAILABLE!!!!

    THE PLAYERS I LISTED ARE EITHER FA's OR ON THE TRADING BLOCK..... Brett IS ON NEITHER SO HOW IS HE AVIALABLE....POINT is there are big names out there whether they be fa's or not...and we are doing nothing to get them .....WAKE UP... :comp:
     
  6. chibiabos

    chibiabos Cheesehead

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    :jumpsmile: keep talkin that way and you will be out of money and saddled with a bunch of overpaid lo-talent players who either are mal-contents or getting very long in the tooth! Pick and choose very carefully or you will end up in cap-hell. Nothing wrong with building for the future through the draft or a very few select players from wherever; even street free . Fill your needs, not your wish list and you can go a long way.
     
  7. JbShell

    JbShell Cheesehead

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    Ref calm down there man. Honestly i see your point but you tend to miss everyone elses.

    This by virtue of being a so so F/A market causes people to reach on signings. TT while I too get frustrated is waiting for the bomb to finish its explosion and go for value over hype.

    While alot of those you mentioned not all would be a fit for the Pack.
    Hell I dont even think Randy Moss would be a fit in a west coast scheme that relies so much on crisp routes over just run that way and I will throw it up there you go get it.

    With Zone Blocking a proper fit at running back is exteremly important. Zone runners cannot be dancers in the backfield a one cut and gone guy is what you need.

    While Ahamn will be missed he is not a omg we are destined for a 2-14 season. RB's can be had and for value say round three or four where smaller school backs tend to sit. Look at Denver and how they were a running back factory with guys most would consider reaches in the 3rd and fourth round at the time.
     
  8. refpacker

    refpacker Cheesehead

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    I agree...I understand the point of not signing the wrong player or giving up too much money... Im just gettin worked up that there are big names out there. They arent FA's but they are out there.... no one can say Lance briggs, adalius thomas, and nate clements werent big names...All im sayin is with our cap room why cant we get someone....I know we dont need lb's but u see where im goin.
     
  9. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    It's not as simple as calling them up and signing them.

    How about some facts. Such as the Packers have contacted the Raiders about Randy Moss. That sure seems like their doing something to get him.

    Also you ignored what I asked about McGahee and Clements. Sure it's easy to say "Yeah let's go get them" but how about analyzing what it would take to get them.

    For instance. Willis McGahee

    The Packers would have to trade a 2nd or 3rd round pick

    The Packers would have to sign him to probably between 5 and 6 years worth 40 to 50 mil with 15 and 20 million up front.

    Is he worth that?

    Then Nate Clements. Looking at the contract he signed which is a cap killer down the road. Would you pay him that kind of money and then suffer the consequences down the road including financial problems and a possible unhappy tandem of Charles Woodson and Al Harris?

    Then you act as if the market is completely gone. Plenty of talent left. Keep in mind Ryan Pickett was not signed unit a few weeks into free agency a year ago and Charles Woodson was signed a few days before the NFL Draft.
     
  10. refpacker

    refpacker Cheesehead

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    I get ur point man...Some are aking for too much money or too many picks...But what I dont understand is that we have soo much cap room we can afford it...Why not spend alittle...I mean are we saving all this money to signe 40 guys of mediocre or less talent...Lets bring in some big names, we are one of the only organizations who have the ability to do so .....

    I mean this is what I dont understand so if you could explain it to me id be greatful....We have all this money...what are we waiting to do with it? Are we just goin to keep stock pilin it..The reason to have a big cap is to sign big guy...But when big guys want big money, we back away...Like is still dont get the javon thing..that was one of the biggest mistakes ive witnesses in the packers organization..
     
  11. BairesPackFan

    BairesPackFan Cheesehead

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    Agreed in everything except that.

    Not EVERY player has a position of strenght, just the top players.

    If you have the money, the cap space, the need to fill a hole and its not a sky price contract, why not take it?

    I think this year contracts are for top players but they are just good or very good (not even great or whit high an instant impact on the team).
     
  12. JbShell

    JbShell Cheesehead

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    Yeah I see were you are going but also remember that big names mean big busts. Remeber GM Mike Sherman and how he tried over and over to make big F/A splashes that turned into belly flops.
    The way TT works he minimizes the risk i.e front loaded contrats that provide outs if the the bust comes.
    While I admit watching TT as an emotional fan is like watching concrete dry in a rainstorm it is a method and it is maddening.

    I want more than anything to be able to look at this team and say wow look at that guy that we picked up.

    Then however I look at it like this kind of like looking at a little baby you say huh how is that little child ever going to amount to something and then 18years later you are wiping the tears away from your eyes as the graduate high school and leave the house.

    Making a winning team takes time and energy and it pisses me off when no quick fix is there. Look at the Patriots and how they were over the years never overspending and having superb drafts that allowed them to keep plugging guys in. I think that is were TT wants to go with all this.

    I will say this TT will not survive anything worse than 9 and 6 this year with it being his third year it is his make or break phase. So I am sure he wants to win as bad as anyone.
     
  13. refpacker

    refpacker Cheesehead

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    Yes big names mean big busts but so do 1st round draft picks.....Why spend it on an unproven player..than one who is proven....If I was a betting man id like my odds alot better in the favor of proven players than unproven ones...
     
  14. JbShell

    JbShell Cheesehead

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    1st round bust are still a hell of a lot cheaper than F/A busts in this market. Ok so say we went out and reached on Clements. 60 mil 8 years 18 mil gaurenteed. Now second week of training camp he breaks his leg.
    Out 6-8 weeks. Comes back and gives you 3 picks but gets burned badly because his leg is not at equal stregth to his other. Now you still pay him his 9 mil regardless. Next year he comes out and is just average.

    It is like this with anything you buy you assume risk.
    Like buying a car.
    Now I have a 2000 BMW 300ii with 250,000 miles Its actual value is 5,000 dollars but I will not take anything less that 15,000 because the BMW market is very thin.

    I also have a 2006 Dodge Grand Caravan with 100mile. Its actual value is 25,000 but because the market is flooded with caravans I want 17,000.

    So I ask you which is the better VALUE the vehicle that has the sex appeal or the vehicle that you know will get more use out of..

    That is what this Market is right now. Over priced BMW's TT is waiting on that Grand Caravan.
     
  15. refpacker

    refpacker Cheesehead

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    You'll also never win a race or pull any tail in a grand caravan....
     
  16. JbShell

    JbShell Cheesehead

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    Maybe so but I will be more likely when shopping value (and have the cash) to walk into that 10,000 for a posche 929 with 1200 miles from a pissed off divorcee who wants to get back at ex hubby. While not having to worry that my stable of overpriced and over hyped BMW's are on the scrap pile or in the shop while still making payments.

    Cant get tail when you got no ride
     
  17. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    I'm sorry but the reason to have money is not to sign big name guys. That's not how it works. You have to spend the money wisely to be successful in the NFL. You can't go out and spend on every big name player that comes across. Would it be nice to see a big name in Green and Gold next year? Certainly and it's still very likely that they do sign a big name player or acquire one via trade. However to over do it like your suggesting would lead to a path the Packers traveled during the Sherman era.

    The title of this thread is very misleading. Here we go again? As I recall last year Green Bay signed Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett. I've disagreed with moves Ted Thompson has made in the past but Woodson was the best signing this decade for the Packers and Pickett paid great dividends as well. Woodson didn't sign until a few days before the Draft and Pickett several weeks after free agency started.

    Farther more the money we have in our cap can be used to keep some of our guys. In the last year the Packers have held onto Aaron Kampman, Donald Driver, Al Harris, Cullen Jenkins, and Scott Wells. If we go out and sign several big name players it could backfire and leave Green Bay with very little money and players such as those could get away. The Packers would likely lose guys like Corey Williams and Nick Barnett next year. Do you want that? I hope not as they've been huge for this team. By spending money on 2nd tier free agents whom fit the system and signing a big name every once in a while it allows the Packers to have much more flexibility year in and year out and it's much easier to keep your own guys such as the names above.

    There are still plenty of talent left on the market and Green Bay is in talks for Randy Moss and they've brought in Justin Griffith for a visit. You can’t denounce the franchise 5 days into the free agency period and this isn't baseball where you can buy a championship. In football you build one.
     
  18. nathaniel

    nathaniel Cheesehead

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    I think the most important thing to do with the money is make sure our guys are staying here. We didn't do it with Green but thankfully we locked up Kampman last year, and taking care of Jenkins was a big deal. The one guy in free agency that I thought could really make a difference immediately was Adalius Thomas and we never had a chance, regardless if we were interested or not. With big names floating around, it's always frustrating watching them just pass by, but it's good to make sure our core team is still intact.
     
  19. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    refpacker, how do you think DD would feel if Bennett/Stallworth was the highest paid WR?

    How would DD feel if Moss came in as the highest paid WR?

    NONE of these guys would beat out DD for the starting spot at WR, so why pay them more than Driver?

    By simply going out and spending big, you risk upsetting some of your star players, and they may in return ask for their contracts to be redone.

    IIRC, Harris started talking up about getting his contract redone (aka getting more money) after Woodson signed, but never once before.
     
  20. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    I think the idea is to spend our available money on players already within the organization who deserve an extension *cough* *cough* NICK BARNETT *cough*

    On another note, here's a little look at the remaining FA market. LINK, so try not to panic. There's a BIIIIG chunk of that list still unsigned.

    Also, I'd suggest looking at the positions of need (ie TE, RB, and S). Our defensive front seven, along with our starting CB tandem is pretty close to locked in. The 'big names' that ref has been complaining about are: CB, OLB/DE, and RB. As far as RB is concerned, it's a tough market when a 30 year old, fumble prone, injury-historied, asthmatic is given 12 mil up front. And can we all stop with the 'why didn't we sign Henry?' stuff? He was scheduled to visit GB, but DEN signed him too quickly.
     
  21. millertime

    millertime Cheesehead

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    great post
     
  22. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    The "Just because we have it we should spend it quick" attitude could put the team in trouble REAL fast.
    Yes, TT has alot of cap space. Why? Because so far he has made the right moves that GAVE us the cap space. Now, if a great player comes along that WILL greatly improve the team, he has the cap space to make a move.
    And if you don't use it wisely, you may end up kicking yourself later on for wasting it on over paid has beens.
     
  23. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Um....ref....McGahee is a malcontent headcase who wants out of Buffalo in large part because it is cold and snowy, and has little to offer socially to a brutha from FL. Yep....Green Bay is the perfect place to cure his ills.

    This from a guy who shows no loyalty to a team that selected him with a first round pick when his knee was ****** UP...and then goes off in the press about Buffalo.

    Class act too, that McGahee.
     
  24. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Porky you made great points...

    They evaluate the players on the team and decide which ones they want to keep and which ones they are okay with letting go..

    The team wants to keep its own "core" players-Harris, DD, Kampman, Wells and will pay accordingly when they feel its a necessity..

    People also think that the entire amount of salary cap is ONLY to sign free agents...It is almost like they fail to realize that what ever you have, is your "BUDGET" fort the entire season..

    Rookies from the draft, players that may want an extension( Barnett) during the season, and if needed to replace injured players once season starts...These things also take away from the cap..

    Just something I also noticed in your post..You said Pickett was signed a few weeks into f/a..Last year f/a started on March 11, and Pickett was signed on March 17th...

    And Woodson signed on May1st, which was after the draft..
     

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