Hawk over Davis

[Cory]

Especially coming off a 4-12 season.

 

[porky88]

I can't believe how you make up stuff, you don't know anything about the Packers draft board, in fact only the guys in the warroom knows anything about it and they don't reveal it after the draft either. Stop assuming stuff you don't know.

Perhaps if you used your reading skills and saw where I said I'm just the messanger here, you would of come to the sense that I am just saying something I heard from some one. I have no idea what the board looks like. I was told from some one who works with in the NFL that Ted Thompson was very high on Vince Young and projected him up there with Reggie Bush.

:roll:

Also, if Vince Young continues running up the middle like he did in college he will get a career ending injury in a blink. In college he was good doing things you can't do in the NFL and that doesn't bode well.

It's all about his upside. He does need a lot of coaching but his arm is strong and he has something that is uncoachable and that is Poise. You can't teach poise and he has that. It sounds as if you just flat out don't like Vince Young and that is why your skeptical of him. You can be skeptical of him all you want but his upside is huge and there is more upside with Young than any other player in this Draft because of his position. Just about every scouting report I read said that on the guy and I agree with that assessment.

I see you mentioned further down that Leinhart was the kind of guy that needs weapons around him, doesn't every QB need weapons around him? Look at Brett Favre, a perennial HOF QB, what is he without weapons?

Favre has the ability to make average WR's look great. In his prime he could do that. When Matt Leinart hit his prime I'm not sure he'll be able to do that. Leinart will be more of a Brad Johnson type of QB in the NFL. He'll manage the game very well because of the talent around him. He'll never be able to turn an average player and make him look great.

 

[GakkofNorway]

What I mean is, if you don't get your QB weapons on offense you've managed your team completely wrong.

 

[Cory]

I can't believe how you make up stuff, you don't know anything about the Packers draft board, in fact only the guys in the warroom knows anything about it and they don't reveal it after the draft either. Stop assuming stuff you don't know.

Perhaps if you used your reading skills and saw where I said I'm just the messanger here, you would of come to the sense that I am just saying something I heard from some one. I have no idea what the board looks like. I was told from some one who works with in the NFL that Ted Thompson was very high on Vince Young and projected him up there with Reggie Bush.

:roll:

Also, if Vince Young continues running up the middle like he did in college he will get a career ending injury in a blink. In college he was good doing things you can't do in the NFL and that doesn't bode well.

It's all about his upside. He does need a lot of coaching but his arm is strong and he has something that is uncoachable and that is Poise. You can't teach poise and he has that. It sounds as if you just flat out don't like Vince Young and that is why your skeptical of him. You can be skeptical of him all you want but his upside is huge and there is more upside with Young than any other player in this Draft because of his position. Just about every scouting report I read said that on the guy and I agree with that assessment.
[quote:3t5vkb90]
I see you mentioned further down that Leinhart was the kind of guy that needs weapons around him, doesn't every QB need weapons around him? Look at Brett Favre, a perennial HOF QB, what is he without weapons?

Favre has the ability to make average WR's look great. In his prime he could do that. When Matt Leinart hit his prime I'm not sure he'll be able to do that. Leinart will be more of a Brad Johnson type of QB in the NFL. He'll manage the game very well because of the talent around him. He'll never be able to turn an average player and make him look great.[/quote:3t5vkb90]

From what I read scouts and GMs were extremely split on Young for a few reasons. 1. They seem to all believe it will take him 3-4 years to become a good NFL QB and some are willing to wait while others aren't. 2. His Football IQ. 3. His throwing motion...

Now, I don't have a crystal ball. I have no idea how his career will turn out. I hope for his sake that he proves me wrong. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong on a player and it sure as hell wouldn't be the last. Personally, my fav QB in this draft was Cutler because he reminds me of Favre.

I did read that TT was very high on Young. How high on the board? I have no idea, but I read that he said if Young was there at 5 he'd be a strong possibility.

 

[pyledriver80]

I am so glad we took Hawk over Vernon Davis. As much as I like Vernon, and he is an athletic freak and will be a top tight end in this league. Even though the TE is becoming more and more important in today's game, I still think its a luxury (and top 5 picks shouldnt be used on luxuries). Whereas a top LB is a necessity, and thats what we got, a pillar for our defense and it filled a need which was another plus. But it would of been sweet to see the ,best ever->Brett Favre and Vernon Davis hook up for amazing plays that only an athlete like Davis can do.

I like Vernon Davis as well. He is a beast and will probably become one of the top TEs in the league barring injury. A Tight End is important, however as you mentioned, it is a luxury. We already had Bubba Franks who's also a hell of a TE when he's in shape. Also we had much more "critical" positions to fill than TE, it's like the position you draft with your first round pick when you got nothing else to take.

I'm glad we got AJ Hawk, I think he will become a great player for this team and he seems to have good attitudes as well. In addition to Hawk we got Greg Jennings in the second round, which up till now has shown great promise. Jennings has a huge upside and fits perfectly with our westcoast offense, and the thing about Jennings is that he's a religious guy with an excellent attitude, this means he will probably never ever become a Javon Walker or Terrell Owens problem.

Ted Thompson made several good picks in this draft, I think we should be pretty happy.

I will, when these "Good Players" start racking up the W's.

I'm glad you aren't a GM or a coach, because evaluation of coaches/players aren't based on the wins solely.

I'm sorry but this is where you are wrong. It IS all about the WIN/LOSS record period.

This is how coaches/gm's/players are judged. Maybe you have a different opinion than me and thats fine but to say it isn't all about the W's makes me wonder why you set such low standards. You can ask any NFL player or head coach and I bet they will tell you it IS all about the win/loss record.

Again as The Bear said - "Moral Victories Are For Losers"

 

[Cory]

So you think a losing record this year would get MM fired? You're right that in the end it's all about wins and losses especially in the playoffs. For right now, though, it's about progress.

 

[porky88]

From what I read scouts and GMs were extremely split on Young for a few reasons. 1. They seem to all believe it will take him 3-4 years to become a good NFL QB and some are willing to wait while others aren't. 2. His Football IQ. 3. His throwing motion...

Now, I don't have a crystal ball. I have no idea how his career will turn out. I hope for his sake that he proves me wrong. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong on a player and it sure as hell wouldn't be the last. Personally, my fav QB in this draft was Cutler because he reminds me of Favre.

I did read that TT was very high on Young. How high on the board? I have no idea, but I read that he said if Young was there at 5 he'd be a strong possibility.

I bet if you look at every report the positives say the upside is there. The upside of Young is so big that he is the type of player that if you hit with the gamble you probably have a legit shot at winning the Super Bowl unless you really mess up managing your team. In this case I think the risk is worth it because of the reward in my opinion.

You read and I was told from some one who I talk to from time to time. I saw him before the draft and we talked about the Packers and the Draft and he told me about Vince Young and how TT had what he described like a "man crush" on him.

He could've been wrong but we'll never know. Although just a few weeks ago Havel was talking about Young and pretty much said the same thing on the radio about how Ted Thompson was very impressed with Young. They were talking I believe about the top 5 picks in the draft and comparing Hawk to the other 4. Also keep in mind their were a lot of leaks that if a QB was there the Packers would strongly consider taking one. 2 of them were but Young wasn’t and they passed on Young. So the evidence is there and I think it’s rather interesting. A lot of “What ifsâ€

 

[Cory]

From what I read scouts and GMs were extremely split on Young for a few reasons. 1. They seem to all believe it will take him 3-4 years to become a good NFL QB and some are willing to wait while others aren't. 2. His Football IQ. 3. His throwing motion...

Now, I don't have a crystal ball. I have no idea how his career will turn out. I hope for his sake that he proves me wrong. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong on a player and it sure as hell wouldn't be the last. Personally, my fav QB in this draft was Cutler because he reminds me of Favre.

I did read that TT was very high on Young. How high on the board? I have no idea, but I read that he said if Young was there at 5 he'd be a strong possibility.

I bet if you look at every report the positives say the upside is there. The upside of Young is so big that he is the type of player that if you hit with the gamble you probably have a legit shot at winning the Super Bowl unless you really mess up managing your team. In this case I think the risk is worth it because of the reward in my opinion.

You read and I was told from some one who I talk to from time to time. I saw him before the draft and we talked about the Packers and the Draft and he told me about Vince Young and how TT had what he described like a "man crush" on him.

He could've been wrong but we'll never know. Although just a few weeks ago Havel was talking about Young and pretty much said the same thing on the radio about how Ted Thompson was very impressed with Young. They were talking I believe about the top 5 picks in the draft and comparing Hawk to the other 4. Also keep in mind their were a lot of leaks that if a QB was there the Packers would strongly consider taking one. 2 of them were but Young wasn’t and they passed on Young. So the evidence is there and I think it’s rather interesting. A lot of “What ifsâ€

 

[pyledriver80]

So you think a losing record this year would get MM fired? You're right that in the end it's all about wins and losses especially in the playoffs. For right now, though, it's about progress.

I don't think like that, sorry. It's not in my nature. I am a black/white type of guy.

Their are two types of people in sports "Their is the Winner and then thier is everyone else"

It's my mindset in anything I do in life. You don't have to be the best at everything but until you are you must recognize you are the loser instead of trying to justify your failure. It makes you push even harder to be the best.

 

[GakkofNorway]

I am so glad we took Hawk over Vernon Davis. As much as I like Vernon, and he is an athletic freak and will be a top tight end in this league. Even though the TE is becoming more and more important in today's game, I still think its a luxury (and top 5 picks shouldnt be used on luxuries). Whereas a top LB is a necessity, and thats what we got, a pillar for our defense and it filled a need which was another plus. But it would of been sweet to see the ,best ever->Brett Favre and Vernon Davis hook up for amazing plays that only an athlete like Davis can do.

I like Vernon Davis as well. He is a beast and will probably become one of the top TEs in the league barring injury. A Tight End is important, however as you mentioned, it is a luxury. We already had Bubba Franks who's also a hell of a TE when he's in shape. Also we had much more "critical" positions to fill than TE, it's like the position you draft with your first round pick when you got nothing else to take.

I'm glad we got AJ Hawk, I think he will become a great player for this team and he seems to have good attitudes as well. In addition to Hawk we got Greg Jennings in the second round, which up till now has shown great promise. Jennings has a huge upside and fits perfectly with our westcoast offense, and the thing about Jennings is that he's a religious guy with an excellent attitude, this means he will probably never ever become a Javon Walker or Terrell Owens problem.

Ted Thompson made several good picks in this draft, I think we should be pretty happy.

I will, when these "Good Players" start racking up the W's.

I'm glad you aren't a GM or a coach, because evaluation of coaches/players aren't based on the wins solely.

I'm sorry but this is where you are wrong. It IS all about the WIN/LOSS record period.

This is how coaches/gm's/players are judged. Maybe you have a different opinion than me and thats fine but to say it isn't all about the W's makes me wonder why you set such low standards. You can ask any NFL player or head coach and I bet they will tell you it IS all about the win/loss record.

Again as The Bear said - "Moral Victories Are For Losers"

I didn't say it isn't about W/L. It is, but we are coming off a 4 - 12 season, do you expect the team to go 16 - 0 all of a sudden? Do you think TT and MM will get fired if we have a losing season? They probably won't if there is progress and things are coming together. Teams doesn't judge everything on the W/L record, other things play in as well..

 

[Cory]

So you think a losing record this year would get MM fired? You're right that in the end it's all about wins and losses especially in the playoffs. For right now, though, it's about progress.

I don't think like that, sorry. It's not in my nature. I am a black/white type of guy.

Their are two types of people in sports "Their is the Winner and then thier is everyone else"

It's my mindset in anything I do in life. You don't have to be the best at everything but until you are you must recognize you are the loser instead of trying to justify your failure. It makes you push even harder to be the best.

Believe it or not I think the same way. But as they say you have to be able to appreciate the journey to being the best and that journey includes many failures. I fully believe that MM and his team are trying to be the best with their no excuse attitude. You aren't a failure or a loser if you fall....you're only a loser or a failure when you don't get back up and frankly I don't see this team quitting.

 

[GakkofNorway]

So you think a losing record this year would get MM fired? You're right that in the end it's all about wins and losses especially in the playoffs. For right now, though, it's about progress.

I don't think like that, sorry. It's not in my nature. I am a black/white type of guy.

Their are two types of people in sports "Their is the Winner and then thier is everyone else"

It's my mindset in anything I do in life. You don't have to be the best at everything but until you are you must recognize you are the loser instead of trying to justify your failure. It makes you push even harder to be the best.

That's because you deal in absolutes, and history have proved people who deal in absolutes fail.

Examples:

******
Osama bin Laden

There is something called the golden mean which works pretty well. I'm not judging you, but people who deal in absolutes often have extreme , opinions, like NRA, ***, muslim extremists, radical left and rightwing people. But let's not get political.

 

[Cory]

So you think a losing record this year would get MM fired? You're right that in the end it's all about wins and losses especially in the playoffs. For right now, though, it's about progress.

I don't think like that, sorry. It's not in my nature. I am a black/white type of guy.

Their are two types of people in sports "Their is the Winner and then thier is everyone else"

It's my mindset in anything I do in life. You don't have to be the best at everything but until you are you must recognize you are the loser instead of trying to justify your failure. It makes you push even harder to be the best.

That's because you deal in absolutes, and history have proved people who deal in absolutes fail.

Examples:

******
Osama bin Laden

There is something called the golden mean which works pretty well. I'm not judging you, but people who deal in absolutes often have extreme , opinions, like NRA, ***, muslim extremists, radical left and rightwing people. But let's not get political.

I agree you can't only deal in absolutes all the time, but I do believe there are absolutes in life.

 

[GakkofNorway]

If a man finds that his nature tends or is disposed to one of these extremes..., he should turn back and improve, so as to walk in the way of good people, which is the right way. The right way is the mean in each group of dispositions common to humanity; namely, that disposition which is equally distant from the two extremes in its class, not being nearer to the one than to the other.

 

[Cory]

If a man finds that his nature tends or is disposed to one of these extremes..., he should turn back and improve, so as to walk in the way of good people, which is the right way. The right way is the mean in each group of dispositions common to humanity; namely, that disposition which is equally distant from the two extremes in its class, not being nearer to the one than to the other.

Therein lies a problem. Who determines the absolute of what is extreme and what isn't?

 

[pyledriver80]

So you think a losing record this year would get MM fired? You're right that in the end it's all about wins and losses especially in the playoffs. For right now, though, it's about progress.

I don't think like that, sorry. It's not in my nature. I am a black/white type of guy.

Their are two types of people in sports "Their is the Winner and then thier is everyone else"

It's my mindset in anything I do in life. You don't have to be the best at everything but until you are you must recognize you are the loser instead of trying to justify your failure. It makes you push even harder to be the best.

That's because you deal in absolutes, and history have proved people who deal in absolutes fail.

Examples:

******
Osama bin Laden

There is something called the golden mean which works pretty well. I'm not judging you, but people who deal in absolutes often have extreme , opinions, like NRA, ***, muslim extremists, radical left and rightwing people. But let's not get political.

Are you not taking the most extreme side of something?

You know another person who dealt in absolutes - Jerry Rice

Just because you don't believe in failure and refuse to accept it as reality and make excuses doesn't make you Osama Bin Laden? That is absurd

Of all the things I'vebeen compared to this takes the cake man

Sincerely
Pyle 'ADOLF' Driver

 

[Cory]

Haha I've now decided that in respect to the moderators of this good forum no matter what is said on this new subject in this thread I will not respond to...anyways back on subject.

So is Vernon Davis' troubles so far in San Fran his fault? or just the result fo a young developing offense?

 

[pyledriver80]

I can't comment on Vernon Davis as I haven't really seen him play. He obviously hasn't done to much however.

 

[Cory]

I can't comment on Vernon Davis as I haven't really seen him play. He obviously hasn't done to much however.

His first ever touch in his first ever game was for a 31 yard td. Since then he's had 4 catches for 6 yards. I really have no idea what's going on there. Maybe he and Smith haven't connected yet.