Gm rankings for draft

[Mondio]

My bad. I thought Gute was MLF's boss.

He might be, but in any structure you give those under or around you responsibility and then you're either going to trust them with it and adjust accordingly or micromanage them. I don't know what their rules are, but I wouldn't be surprised if MLF has say over his staff 100% final decision. I'm guessing they talked plenty but MLF had final say.

if I was a coach or a lead on a project or study, I'd want final say who's on my staff too. or you run the risk of running a team like Jerry Jones did for a while. Whenever he didn't like the decisions he just overruled them because he was the "boss" That's fine, you can certainly do it that way, but it does create a different work environment. I'm guessing Gute nor MM want to micromanage MLF.

 

[longtimefan]

He was still a good quarterback, there's no doubt about it.

But if he was still a ~95 Passer Rating type of player and they gave him 50M AAV, they would all but eliminate their chances of winning a Super Bowl.

If you want a real shot at a ring with an expensive QB, he has to be elite. Paying a giant chunk of your cap for "good" isn't going to get it done.

So I think the FO looked at who he has been for 3 straight seasons and knew that if things didn't change, they'd need to move on rather than extend him again.

Then things changed.

Just the facts

 

[OldSchool101]

In my opinion a lot of fans unfairly assess Rodgers' performance in the seasons leading up to the Packers drafting Love as well. It's true his passer rating dropped since he won his second MVP in 2014 but he was still leading the league in TD/INT ratio from 2015-19.

True. Yet, while his TD % remained great, many other important aspects declined.

In 2019, Aaron’s completion % (62.0) had dropped to the 2nd lowest of his career as a starter.

His 2019 passing yardage had waned (4,002) to his 3rd lowest of the 11 seasons where he played a full season. (Not dinging him for injury seasons).


Also, Rodgers QB rating (66.0, 58.5 and 52.0) had dropped substantially in the 2 seasons leading up to the 2020 draft (2017,2018,2019) #6 poorest, #2 poorest AND #1 poorest QB rating of his 13 year career

Now let’s not forget to mention his raw TD #’s dropped markedly for the 2 seasons leading up to the 2020 draft.
In 2018-2019 Rodgers passed for just 25,26 TD’s, both in complete seasons. Those were the #13 and #12 ranked out of 13 seasons he had played as a starter. Yes, bottom dwelling 2 seasons. This was also coincidentally, directly after his last significant injury (2017).

Completion %, QB rating, Passer rating, yardage, TD scored… all dropped significantly leading right up to the 2020 draft.

Anyone not recognizing that or ignoring that going into the 2020 draft wouldn’t be doing their due diligence as a Coach or GM or really I’ll add experienced fans also. They should know better. We bought insurance with a late Day 1 QB draft selection. The odd thing is that Love draft pick had a separate, profound (and possibly unplanned?) effect.. it lit a fire like there ain’t no tomorrow.

I heard MLF say recently in an interview. There’s no better way to incentivize performance like competition.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm just curious how many fans calling for the mid season firing of the ST coordinator were appalled that the Packers fired McCarthy before the end of the season

The Packers found themselves in a way different situation during the 2018 season when they fired McCarthy. At that point they were all but eliminated from playoff contention at 4-7-1 and weren't going to content for a Super Bowl. Therefore they could have kept MM for another four games as well.

Last season, it was pretty obvious that the special teams were that terrible all season long that their performance could potentially come back and haunt the team at the most untimely point of the season. Therefore it would have made sense to move on from Drayton before that happened.

So I think the FO looked at who he has been for 3 straight seasons and knew that if things didn't change, they'd need to move on rather than extend him again.

Then things changed.

True. Yet, while his TD % remained great, many other important aspects declined.

Anyone not recognizing that or ignoring that going into the 2020 draft wouldn’t be doing their due diligence as a Coach or GM or really I’ll add experienced fans also. They should know better.

I guess McCarthy's offense having gone stale as well as Rodgers getting used to a new offense under MLF were the main reasons for him struggling based on his standards in the two years leading up to the 2020 draft. The front office should have known better that he was capable of bouncing back from it.

We bought insurance with a late Day 1 QB draft selection. The odd thing is that Love draft pick had a separate, profound (and possibly unplanned?) effect.. it lit a fire like there ain’t no tomorrow.

I heard MLF say recently in an interview. There’s no better way to incentivize performance like competition.

As I have mentioned repeatedly I consider it to be utter BS that the Packers drafting Love had anything to do with Rodgers having performed at an MVP level over the past two seasons.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Oooo no???

Some will be pissed

Ranking the 32 NFL General Managers after the 2022 NFL Draft

Across the NFL, General Managers are trying to build their best possible team. Let's rank the 32 General Managers after the 2022 NFL Draft. The responsibil...

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It seems like he picked the teams that all finished with good records last year.

Not saying he's wrong, but it seems like an easy play.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

True. Yet, while his TD % remained great, many other important aspects declined.

In 2019, Aaron’s completion % (62.0) had dropped to the 2nd lowest of his career as a starter.

His 2019 passing yardage had waned (4,002) to his 3rd lowest of the 11 seasons where he played a full season. (Not dinging him for injury seasons).


Also, Rodgers QB rating (66.0, 58.5 and 52.0) had dropped substantially in the 2 seasons leading up to the 2020 draft (2017,2018,2019) #6 poorest, #2 poorest AND #1 poorest QB rating of his 13 year career

Now let’s not forget to mention his raw TD #’s dropped markedly for the 2 seasons leading up to the 2020 draft.
In 2018-2019 Rodgers passed for just 25,26 TD’s, both in complete seasons. Those were the #13 and #12 ranked out of 13 seasons he had played as a starter. Yes, bottom dwelling 2 seasons. This was also coincidentally, directly after his last significant injury (2017).

Completion %, QB rating, Passer rating, yardage, TD scored… all dropped significantly leading right up to the 2020 draft.

Anyone not recognizing that or ignoring that going into the 2020 draft wouldn’t be doing their due diligence as a Coach or GM or really I’ll add experienced fans also. They should know better. We bought insurance with a late Day 1 QB draft selection. The odd thing is that Love draft pick had a separate, profound (and possibly unplanned?) effect.. it lit a fire like there ain’t no tomorrow.

I heard MLF say recently in an interview. There’s no better way to incentivize performance like competition.

I notice you're comparing Aaron to Aaron.


A bad year for our #12 is a career year for a lot of other NFL starting quarterbacks, so I'm not sure what this proves. Obviously, one of his years has to be his worst year.

 

[gopkrs]

I notice you're comparing Aaron to Aaron.


A bad year for our #12 is a career year for a lot of other NFL starting quarterbacks, so I'm not sure what this proves. Obviously, one of his years has to be his worst year.

I noticed a lot of things Arod did not do as well over those few years. Like not leading receivers well. And his wheels (injuries or no) took a step backwards. With MVS getting separation Arod was as likely as not to put the ball in a good place deep. Not to say MVS would have caught the ball. That is why I was not upset with the Love pick. Hopefully his chapter is not complete for the GBP.

 

[tynimiller]

I noticed a lot of things Arod did not do as well over those few years. Like not leading receivers well. And his wheels (injuries or no) took a step backwards. With MVS getting separation Arod was as likely as not to put the ball in a good place deep. Not to say MVS would have caught the ball. That is why I was not upset with the Love pick. Hopefully his chapter is not complete for the GBP.

Him adjusting to his loss of mobility I think was a bigger cog in that hiccup than many think. He clearly has become smarter and more cognizant of precisely what he is capable of now leg wise.

 

[PikeBadger]

The Packers found themselves in a way different situation during the 2018 season when they fired McCarthy. At that point they were all but eliminated from playoff contention at 4-7-1 and weren't going to content for a Super Bowl. Therefore they could have kept MM for another four games as well.

Last season, it was pretty obvious that the special teams were that terrible all season long that their performance could potentially come back and haunt the team at the most untimely point of the season. Therefore it would have made sense to move on from Drayton before that happened.





I guess McCarthy's offense having gone stale as well as Rodgers getting used to a new offense under MLF were the main reasons for him struggling based on his standards in the two years leading up to the 2020 draft. The front office should have known better that he was capable of bouncing back from it.



As I have mentioned repeatedly I consider it to be utter BS that the Packers drafting Love had anything to do with Rodgers having performed at an MVP level over the past two seasons.

His mechanics had gotten sloppy. Too much throwing off his back foot.

 

[Heyjoe4]

13 wins a year and using all the tools to build his team, the only pissed people should be those that think he is rated too low IMO.

I agree. And Gluten gets rightfully praised, but dissed because he didn't get enough for Adams. I don't agree with that. The Raiders were already a playoff team and could have waited a year for Adams, meaning GB gets nothing for him. That's an extreme case and maybe Gluten gets an extra 4th or 5th round pick, but I thought getting a first and second was amazing.

I admit I was no fan of Gluten to start. A lot of it had to do with the weird org structure, with Gluten, MLF, and Ball reporting to MM. I couldn't see how they'd get anything done. I still don't like it, but Gluten has risen above it purely on his talent. He knows how to play the internal game. He tripped a little with Rodgers but that's fixed. He may make a good replacement for Murphy some day.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Gutekunst is significantly better using all methods available to improve the roster. Thompson was more successful in the draft early in his tenure though.

That's all true. We shouldn't forget who drafted Rodgers after all, among other good drafts at the start of his GM years. I'd still take Gluten over TT. Gluten got off to a slow start but more than made up for it.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Not going to mince words here. If anyone doesnt think he is miles better than TT, they are not paying attention.

He exceeded TT in one year - the year he signed the Smiths, Turner, and Amos in FA. TT wouldn't have touched that, and look at the payoff those players provided. Expensive? Yes. But as the saying goes, you have to spend money to make money, or win a lot of games.

 

[tynimiller]

He exceeded TT in one year - the year he signed the Smiths, Turner, and Amos in FA. TT wouldn't have touched that, and look at the payoff those players provided. Expensive? Yes. But as the saying goes, you have to spend money to make money, or win a lot of games.

Did it get Gute an SB though some would say?

Both are quite good GMs, in rather different ways. I see Gute as a perfect median between an oober aggressive and dumb fiscal GM and a patient penny pincher like TT.

 

[sschind]

True. Yet, while his TD % remained great, many other important aspects declined.

In 2019, Aaron’s completion % (62.0) had dropped to the 2nd lowest of his career as a starter.

His 2019 passing yardage had waned (4,002) to his 3rd lowest of the 11 seasons where he played a full season. (Not dinging him for injury seasons).


Also, Rodgers QB rating (66.0, 58.5 and 52.0) had dropped substantially in the 2 seasons leading up to the 2020 draft (2017,2018,2019) #6 poorest, #2 poorest AND #1 poorest QB rating of his 13 year career

Now let’s not forget to mention his raw TD #’s dropped markedly for the 2 seasons leading up to the 2020 draft.
In 2018-2019 Rodgers passed for just 25,26 TD’s, both in complete seasons. Those were the #13 and #12 ranked out of 13 seasons he had played as a starter. Yes, bottom dwelling 2 seasons. This was also coincidentally, directly after his last significant injury (2017).

Completion %, QB rating, Passer rating, yardage, TD scored… all dropped significantly leading right up to the 2020 draft.

Anyone not recognizing that or ignoring that going into the 2020 draft wouldn’t be doing their due diligence as a Coach or GM or really I’ll add experienced fans also. They should know better. We bought insurance with a late Day 1 QB draft selection. The odd thing is that Love draft pick had a separate, profound (and possibly unplanned?) effect.. it lit a fire like there ain’t no tomorrow.

I heard MLF say recently in an interview. There’s no better way to incentivize performance like competition.

Nice post except the part about Love pushing Aaron. Not saying that it couldn't or didn't happen but it didn't fit with your otherwise factual post.

I guess McCarthy's offense having gone stale as well as Rodgers getting used to a new offense under MLF were the main reasons for him struggling based on his standards in the two years leading up to the 2020 draft. The front office should have known better that he was capable of bouncing back from it.

.Being capable of bouncing back is not knowing he will bounce back. No one could know he would bounce back. Love was drafted just in case he didn't.

I notice you're comparing Aaron to Aaron.


A bad year for our #12 is a career year for a lot of other NFL starting quarterbacks, so I'm not sure what this proves. Obviously, one of his years has to be his worst year.

It doesn't matter. If any level of player has a couple of down years it could be a sign that he has peaked and will continue to fall. So even his down years were better than a lot of QBs. Should a GM expect him to level out at that lower but still very good level and consider that good enough or should he expect him to bounce back to his elite form like Captain suggests or should he consider that fact that he may continue to decline and take steps to plan for that if it happens. IMO Gute made the sensible choice which was the last one.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Did it get Gute an SB though some would say?

Both are quite good GMs, in rather different ways. I see Gute as a perfect median between an oober aggressive and dumb fiscal GM and a patient penny pincher like TT.

Good point and like all 32 people in his position, he'll ultimately be judged by a SB win(s). He's more or less remade the Packers this year. And why not? They weren't even getting to the SB with the old approach. This will be an interesting year. I think the D wins 2 or 3 games, and I think Rodgers works some magic with the WR room, however it ends up looking. (With the Alexander deal done, I expect another veteran to be added, ideally in a trade.)

That said, my own minimum expectation is a SB appearance, ideally a win. However you cut it, they have to improve in the post-season and that means getting to the SB.

 

[Heyjoe4]

True. Yet, while his TD % remained great, many other important aspects declined.

In 2019, Aaron’s completion % (62.0) had dropped to the 2nd lowest of his career as a starter.

His 2019 passing yardage had waned (4,002) to his 3rd lowest of the 11 seasons where he played a full season. (Not dinging him for injury seasons).


Also, Rodgers QB rating (66.0, 58.5 and 52.0) had dropped substantially in the 2 seasons leading up to the 2020 draft (2017,2018,2019) #6 poorest, #2 poorest AND #1 poorest QB rating of his 13 year career

Now let’s not forget to mention his raw TD #’s dropped markedly for the 2 seasons leading up to the 2020 draft.
In 2018-2019 Rodgers passed for just 25,26 TD’s, both in complete seasons. Those were the #13 and #12 ranked out of 13 seasons he had played as a starter. Yes, bottom dwelling 2 seasons. This was also coincidentally, directly after his last significant injury (2017).

Completion %, QB rating, Passer rating, yardage, TD scored… all dropped significantly leading right up to the 2020 draft.

Anyone not recognizing that or ignoring that going into the 2020 draft wouldn’t be doing their due diligence as a Coach or GM or really I’ll add experienced fans also. They should know better. We bought insurance with a late Day 1 QB draft selection. The odd thing is that Love draft pick had a separate, profound (and possibly unplanned?) effect.. it lit a fire like there ain’t no tomorrow.

I heard MLF say recently in an interview. There’s no better way to incentivize performance like competition.

I've never seen an analysis like this on Rodgers' performance leading up to Love's draft. Well done. I wouldn't have bet a nickel that he would go on to win two consecutive MVPs.

Cap makes a good point that his TD/INT ratio remained out of this world. But that's just one stat. I can see why Gluten would feel pressured to draft his replacement. We all know things turned out differently, the sea got rough and settled down. I think Rodgers declining performance can largely be attributed to frustration with MM's stale approach. Anyway he bounced back big time.

The only thing I don't buy is that drafting Love lit a fire under Rodgers. MLF and his game planning lit a fire under Rodgers. And I think MLF played a largely quiet role in making peace between Rodgers and Gluten.

 

[Dantés]

I guess McCarthy's offense having gone stale as well as Rodgers getting used to a new offense under MLF were the main reasons for him struggling based on his standards in the two years leading up to the 2020 draft. The front office should have known better that he was capable of bouncing back from it.

McCarthy's offense sucked, but it's also true that Rodgers developed bad habits that exacerbated things (esp. holding the ball and trying to constantly create plays out of structure).

His first year in LaFleur's scheme showed that some of those habits had stuck around.

I think reasonable people can disagree as to whether the front office should have known he would bounce back or not from those habits. If you've got a 35 year old QB with bad habits who has carried them over to a new coaching staff and system... I can see how they might suspect he was an old dog who wasn't going to learn new tricks.

I think we all readily admit that predicting player development and progress is far from an exact science.

 

[Heyjoe4]

McCarthy's offense sucked, but it's also true that Rodgers developed bad habits that exacerbated things (esp. holding the ball and trying to constantly create plays out of structure).

His first year in LaFleur's scheme showed that some of those habits had stuck around.

I think reasonable people can disagree as to whether the front office should have known he would bounce back or not from those habits. If you've got a 35 year old QB with bad habits who has carried them over to a new coaching staff and system... I can see how they might suspect he was an old dog who wasn't going to learn new tricks.

I think we all readily admit that predicting player development and progress is far from an exact science.

You and Cap make good points. I'm a sample of one, but watching GB up until they fired MM, I could easily blame the stale performance of Rodgers, and the whole team, on MM. He was in his 13th year, had no energy, and was still apparently using the game plan from the 2011 SB. Most HCs, even the best, need to move on after 10 years. Mike Tomlin is the only exception that comes to mind. I'm sure there are a few more, not many.

 

[tynimiller]

Good point and like all 32 people in his position, he'll ultimately be judged by a SB win(s). He's more or less remade the Packers this year. And why not? They weren't even getting to the SB with the old approach. This will be an interesting year. I think the D wins 2 or 3 games, and I think Rodgers works some magic with the WR room, however it ends up looking. (With the Alexander deal done, I expect another veteran to be added, ideally in a trade.)

That said, my own minimum expectation is a SB appearance, ideally a win. However you cut it, they have to improve in the post-season and that means getting to the SB.

I believe they'll minimum make it to the NFCCG, for me personally my minimum bar is same as you - make it to the SB.

 

[tynimiller]

The only thing I don't buy is that drafting Love lit a fire under Rodgers. MLF and his game planning lit a fire under Rodgers. And I think MLF played a largely quiet role in making peace between Rodgers and Gluten.

It might be years post-retirement before we learn from Rodgers, if we ever do, about whether the Love pick put a chip on his shoulder.

At a minimum it absolutely did something IMO...was it just a tiny little stick that got tossed on an already burning fire, or was it a few logs and some lighter fuel added....we might never know.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I believe they'll minimum make it to the NFCCG, for me personally my minimum bar is same as you - make it to the SB.

I agree they'll make it pretty handily to the NFCCG. Sure would be nice to get to the SB, even better to win it.

 

[Heyjoe4]

It might be years post-retirement before we learn from Rodgers, if we ever do, about whether the Love pick put a chip on his shoulder.

At a minimum it absolutely did something IMO...was it just a tiny little stick that got tossed on an already burning fire, or was it a few logs and some lighter fuel added....we might never know.

It played a role, for sure. I don't think even Rodgers knows what it was.

 

[tynimiller]

It played a role, for sure. I don't think even Rodgers knows what it was.

Very possibly could be the case. With as candid as Rodgers has grown to be on Pat's show now while still playing...I get a sense at some point in the future when the reflection has been a daily thing for him we may get a guess or answer even from him. I don't think he will be able to resist not sharing it with us if it did light a fire...because let's not forget how much of a chip sitting on draft night put on his shoulder that he announced to the world over and over again for awhile.

 

[PikeBadger]

McCarthy's offense sucked, but it's also true that Rodgers developed bad habits that exacerbated things (esp. holding the ball and trying to constantly create plays out of structure).

His first year in LaFleur's scheme showed that some of those habits had stuck around.

I think reasonable people can disagree as to whether the front office should have known he would bounce back or not from those habits. If you've got a 35 year old QB with bad habits who has carried them over to a new coaching staff and system... I can see how they might suspect he was an old dog who wasn't going to learn new tricks.

I think we all readily admit that predicting player development and progress is far from an exact science.

I think we all readily admit that predicting player development and progress is far from an exact science.

Heck, we've got people here that don't recognize the existence of player development.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Very possibly could be the case. With as candid as Rodgers has grown to be on Pat's show now while still playing...I get a sense at some point in the future when the reflection has been a daily thing for him we may get a guess or answer even from him. I don't think he will be able to resist not sharing it with us if it did light a fire...because let's not forget how much of a chip sitting on draft night put on his shoulder that he announced to the world over and over again for awhile.

The guy does know how to carry a grudge. That ages a person. Look at Rodgers and Brady side by side. Few would guess Brady is like 16 years older.