For those who think Brett should call the plays...

[Bruce]

I know it is popular to blame the play calling for everything from the loss in Chicago to the killing of **** robin, but if one is going to climb out on that limb at least try to factor in a few facts.

Brett's bone headed, game turning interception right before the half was an audible. The call from the sidelines was a shovel pass, a relatively safe call -- and in the WCO similar to a run. Brett read the blitz and shifted to a pass to the endzone.

Pack66 will call this Favre hating, but it is simply adding a few facts to the rants that people go off half cocked on.

 

[DePack]

Bruce....we have had that argument over and over. Favre has said many times that he has no desire to call the plays. There is way too much to it. You need to be thinking ahead a couple of plays or even series' to effectively call plays. There is nothing wrong with him giving his input for a play here or there but calling the entire game puts too much on the QB.

BTW....I don't think it was an audible. I think he ad-libbed when the shuffle pass was sniffed out by the bears. If he was trying to throw the ball away, then it was a good decision. If he was forcing it in to Fergy it was a mistake. Ferguson was actually blocking downfield on that play. He wasn't looking for the ball.

 

[Bruce]

Bruce....we have had that argument over and over. Favre has said many times that he has no desire to call the plays. There is way too much to it. You need to be thinking ahead a couple of plays or even series' to effectively call plays. There is nothing wrong with him giving his input for a play here or there but calling the entire game puts too much on the QB.

BTW....I don't think it was an audible. I think he ad-libbed when the shuffle pass was sniffed out by the bears. If he was trying to throw the ball away, then it was a good decision. If he was forcing it in to Fergy it was a mistake. Ferguson was actually blocking downfield on that play. He wasn't looking for the ball.

If he was trying to throw the ball away -- why continue to drop back? The blitz was from the right side -- why not take the snap and fire the ball out of bounds? Further, if you watch the replay Fergy is deeper and outside of the CB -- a well thrown ball (which given the blitz was near impossible) deep and outside would have been a TD.

 

[Cheesehog]

How about when he could have run for that first down and might have made it but tosses it away. that's twice this year he could have run for a TD or first down in sight but throws off a bad pass. I guess later in the game he makes up for it( not taking a hit) by making a great block on the reverse.(No wonder he drives coaches mad). :roll:

 

[DePack]

Bruce....I'm just taking Brett's word for it. He said he was trying to throw it away. Fergy wasn't even looking for the ball. His job on that play (shuffle pass) was to take his man deep out of the play.

 

[Bruce]

Bruce....I'm just taking Brett's word for it. He said he was trying to throw it away. Fergy wasn't even looking for the ball. His job on that play (shuffle pass) was to take his man deep out of the play.

DePack: I am not arguing with you, I know that is what Brett said about his boneheaded play.

However, if Brett was trying to throw the ball away -- it was a very poor attempt at it. Since when does one try to throw the ball away by lofting it into the endzone (barely) and in the middle of the field.

It was a poor audible, a poor decision at the line, and a poor throw. One that most coaches would not accept from a mediocre High School QB.

Taking the sack or sliding to the ground assures a FG attempt. Putting it up for grabs while running backwards is always a mistake.

Calling timeout was another option if he didn't like his presnap read.

Even a great player like Brett Favre needs to be accountable for inexcusable plays -- this one qualifies as just that.

 

[P@ck66]

Bruce..

i guess the ferocious bear pass rush in his face has nothing to do with it...?

 

[DePack]

Bruce....once again there was no audible or bad presnap read. Watch the play again....they ran the Shuffle pass but the defense snuffed it out. Hindsight tells you that it would have been better to just dump the ball at Fishers feet but instead he tried to make a play. If it was a presnap read and audible then noone else on the entire team caught on to it. They all ran the shuffle pass play....watch the blocking and watch Fisher. I'm not arguing that is wasn't a bad throw and bad decision....
I'm just saying it was not an audible at the line of scirimmage.

 

[tromadz]

even sherman said that was a shovel pass play. figure it out, bruce

 

[Bruce]

even sherman said that was a shovel pass play. figure it out, bruce

Tromadz: That is exactly what I started this thread saying -- that the call from the sidelines was a shovel pass. What is it you want me to figure out?

 

[tromadz]

you said he audibled. not true

 

[Bruce]

Bruce....once again there was no audible or bad presnap read. Watch the play again....they ran the Shuffle pass but the defense snuffed it out. Hindsight tells you that it would have been better to just dump the ball at Fishers feet but instead he tried to make a play. If it was a presnap read and audible then noone else on the entire team caught on to it. They all ran the shuffle pass play....watch the blocking and watch Fisher. I'm not arguing that is wasn't a bad throw and bad decision....
I'm just saying it was not an audible at the line of scirimmage.

I HEAR YOU DEPACK. I know the play call was a shovel pass. You are correct, what I was calling an audible would have been better described as an improv by Brett. I don't need to rewatch the play, I have and knew what the play call was all along.

Apparently, I mis-read Favre's inprov on the play as a play change between he and Fergy. We seem to agree on everything else about the play. Fergy actually is deeper and outside the CB on the play.

Regardless, it was a bone-headed play by Brett that was a 6 point swing from leading 10 to 6 at the half to trailing 9 to 7 and playing from behind.

 

[Bruce]

you said he audibled. not true

Ok. His improv caused a 6 point swing. It changes little. It was pathetic play by a great QB.

Flinging the ball up in the air in the middle of the field is something that basic level QB are taught to never do, yet here you have a 1st ballot hall of famer doing it at a critical time in a rivalry game.

How did the Philly game end the week before? Do you think the play call was to heave it up for grabs into triple coverage? And how did the game end in the famous 4 and 26 game against Philly?

I love Brett Favre but he is not above accoutability.

 

[Bruce]

Bruce..

i guess the ferocious bear pass rush in his face has nothing to do with it...?

That is a pretty stupid question. Of course the pass rush had something to do with his panic and poor decision making on the play.

And your point was?

 

[Greg C.]

Regardless of the circumstances, it was clearly a lousy play. I've heard many people say over the years that you have to accept those kinds of plays from Favre if you're going to accept the great throws, but I disagree. I have no problem with Brett trying to fit the ball into tight spots (as long as the team is not protecting a lead), but increasingly he has been throwing the ball to receivers who simply are not open in any way, shape, or form. In the fourth quarter alone I counted three passes that were thrown directly into coverage, and I'm not counting the one that was picked off. But the toss-ups are the ones that really drive me nuts. With Javon Walker sometimes those throws work. With Donald Driver, MAYBE they can work. But there is no point throwing jump balls to Robert Ferguson or Antonio Chatman. Neither of those guys are leapers.

 

[P@ck66]

Well stupid...

the point was that errors friggin' happen in a football game ...

(and you would know that if you ever played the game..but obviously you haven't)

The simple point that I was making was that perhaps Favre was off balance when he threw the ball..and it didn't go as far as he wanted...but perhaps for some reason..you are unable to understand that, and if you want to lay the blame at Favre's feet...fine...

doesn't change the fact that he still has few quality receivers to throw to.

 

[WinnipegPackFan]

This is a "BoneHeaded" thread and I wasted five minutes reading it.

 

[vixtalkn]

Disagree Winni ... this is not a boneheaded thread. Is just another rant by the two camps dwelling on this forum: one camp is content to live by the Favre, die by the Favre; the other wants his head hung on the goalpost whenever he makes a mistake.

This week JS offered some fodder for this particular rant. It quoted Bevell saying he and the coaching staff are on Favre all the time about reckless plays. Bevell commented that Favre is routinely criticized, but the coaches still want Favre to be Favre.

Favre responded later that, sure, Holmgren got in his face when he was young, but after 15 years Sherm simply coaches with a different style. Yet, the message is the same--run the plays we call. In fact, Favre admits that the coaches repeatedly tell him to trust the receivers he has on the field, regardless of who they are and the experience they might have.

Based on the stuff JS reported this week, it appears Favre and the coaches all have accepted responsibility for his miscues and all have worked diligently to limit their number.

Is clear, however, the coaches are definitely members of the "live by the Favre; die by the Favre" camp. For those in the "hang 'em high" camp, appears your frustrations will continue.

 

[DePack]

I hear ya Bruce. vix...I am in the "live by Favre; die by Favre" camp but to be fair, I don't think Bruce and the others "want his head hung on a goalpost". I think we all appreciate Brett but disagree on how to handle him. I, for one, feel he IS above "jumping in his face". He doesn't need it. To me he IS above criticism. He has earned it.

 

[Bruce]

I hear ya Bruce. vix...I am in the "live by Favre; die by Favre" camp but to be fair, I don't think Bruce and the others "want his head hung on a goalpost". I think we all appreciate Brett but disagree on how to handle him. I, for one, feel he IS above "jumping in his face". He doesn't need it. To me he IS above criticism. He has earned it.

No one who knows me thinks I would want Brett's "want his head hung on a goalpost" -- his bust in the hall of fame for sure, but this accusation is ridicules.

I also am not advocating getting in his face, however NO PLAYER or coach or front office person is above accountability or criticism. Brett Favre deserves respect and admiration, but he also deserves honest feedback when he screws up. He screwed up here. How can that be hard to face?

 

[Bruce]

Well stupid...

the point was that errors friggin' happen in a football game ...

(and you would know that if you ever played the game..but obviously you haven't)

The simple point that I was making was that perhaps Favre was off balance when he threw the ball..and it didn't go as far as he wanted...but perhaps for some reason..you are unable to understand that, and if you want to lay the blame at Favre's feet...fine...

doesn't change the fact that he still has few quality receivers to throw to.

Of course errors happen in football. I didn't hear you talking about an error. Rather I heard you making excuses.

Further, being questioned on my football credentials by an impulsive little kid is humorous.