Elite or semi elite players we have now. A little but not much looking into the future alliwed. Just opinions.

[Voyageur]

Is there a something better than elite? Only the elite should go into the HOF. We have awards for all of the other guys, like All-Pro and Pro Bowl. I don't like handing out participation awards to everyone unless you're under the age of 13.

I agree. I wouldn't put a kid in a program where they don't keep score and everyone gets a participation trophy. They're not teaching the kids that you need to work hard to be rewarded. There's no free lunch in life.

 

[tynimiller]

Is there a something better than elite? Only the elite should go into the HOF. We have awards for all of the other guys, like All-Pro and Pro Bowl. I don't like handing out participation awards to everyone unless you're under the age of 13.

This is why the "Gute never drafts anyone Elite" crowd bug me so much because then they'll point at really good players others draft but are no where near elite.

Elite to me is a guy that is minimum in the top 5 of his position group in the NFL and is widely accepted as such. Jaire Alexander is the last consensus Packer IMO that has been drafted that is there...now people that know football and study edge players pressures, forced turnovers, sacks, TFLs and such do say Gary is in company with that so I'd concede there is an argument there for it (too many ignorantly look just at sack totals).

It is RARE, VERY VERY VERY RARE to find those truly ELITE guys....especially guys that do it right away within their rookie deal.

To me on our roster we have 1 consensus current elite guy and that is Xavier McKinney.
We have 1 guy arguably to many there and that is Rashan Gary.

Then we have by my counts 3 additional guys that are just outside elite:
-Josh Jacobs...Consensus top 8/10 type guy but rarely inside of 5
-Zach Tom...if he has one more season like he has he is a top 5 RT
-Jordan Love...he is consistently ranked by many in their top 10
(little separation here)
-Kenny Clark...ask his peers and some still argue he's one of the best interior guys...trending down but he is just outside elite.

Guys trending towards the top:
-Edgerrin Cooper...he doesn't have even a single season but if you know football you see it - Elite ability is there.
-Jayden Reed...he broke rookie records in GB that no one thought would likely fall...down year in 24', if he bounces back there is still a chance he at minimum becomes a consensus top 25 or so WR.
-Tucker Kraft...honestly if he has a 25' like 24' and maybe increases stuff like 5% many might argue he is in that top 5 already...I see him just below the top 10 but his trend is at a steeper angle than almost any ahead of him.

*Honorable mention to Evan Williams...dude just had one of the best seasons you could have asked for a rookie safety and is so often overlooked. The defense was dramatically different when he was healthy and playing. I'd also give a nod to Christian Watson because unlike Doubs, (who very well may play as WR2 for ten plus years in the league) Watson's advanced analytics indicates he impacts games massively and if he comes back healthy there is a real chance he can find himself like Reed considered a top 30 or so WR in the league to many.

Guys that appear to be fully capable of ten years in the NFL...we have a slew of them!

 

[tynimiller]

Maybe it would be better to ask it like this:

2. Who are the best teams in the league right now? (say, top 5?)
3. How many “elite” players do those teams have?

I think this exercise helps illustrate what is elite to many...take the Eagles for example....I'd say this:

Clear Elite guys IMO - Barkley, AJ Brown
Can understand if someone wants to say these are Elite - Jalen Carter, Lane Johnson

Guys to me that are trending to be - Quinyon Mitchell and Cooper Dejean


And in truth I don't know if AJ is consensus elite now in my terms of elite you have to be a top 5 in your position league wide.

The Eagles truly are/were not loaded with ELITE talent...but across the board they had guys playing last year at least in the top 15 or higher of their positions...Baun as an example played elite for one season...but outlier season for him.

Typically SB teams have one to three guys that many will say are elite...but have a lot of guys playing elite or high level compared to their histories or are on the upward ascensions and that is the perfect storm.

 

[Voyageur]

This is why the "Gute never drafts anyone Elite" crowd bug me so much because then they'll point at really good players others draft but are no where near elite.

Elite to me is a guy that is minimum in the top 5 of his position group in the NFL and is widely accepted as such. Jaire Alexander is the last consensus Packer IMO that has been drafted that is there...now people that know football and study edge players pressures, forced turnovers, sacks, TFLs and such do say Gary is in company with that so I'd concede there is an argument there for it (too many ignorantly look just at sack totals).

It is RARE, VERY VERY VERY RARE to find those truly ELITE guys....especially guys that do it right away within their rookie deal.

To me on our roster we have 1 consensus current elite guy and that is Xavier McKinney.
We have 1 guy arguably to many there and that is Rashan Gary.

Then we have by my counts 3 additional guys that are just outside elite:
-Josh Jacobs...Consensus top 8/10 type guy but rarely inside of 5
-Zach Tom...if he has one more season like he has he is a top 5 RT
-Jordan Love...he is consistently ranked by many in their top 10
(little separation here)
-Kenny Clark...ask his peers and some still argue he's one of the best interior guys...trending down but he is just outside elite.

Guys trending towards the top:
-Edgerrin Cooper...he doesn't have even a single season but if you know football you see it - Elite ability is there.
-Jayden Reed...he broke rookie records in GB that no one thought would likely fall...down year in 24', if he bounces back there is still a chance he at minimum becomes a consensus top 25 or so WR.
-Tucker Kraft...honestly if he has a 25' like 24' and maybe increases stuff like 5% many might argue he is in that top 5 already...I see him just below the top 10 but his trend is at a steeper angle than almost any ahead of him.

*Honorable mention to Evan Williams...dude just had one of the best seasons you could have asked for a rookie safety and is so often overlooked. The defense was dramatically different when he was healthy and playing. I'd also give a nod to Christian Watson because unlike Doubs, (who very well may play as WR2 for ten plus years in the league) Watson's advanced analytics indicates he impacts games massively and if he comes back healthy there is a real chance he can find himself like Reed considered a top 30 or so WR in the league to many.

Guys that appear to be fully capable of ten years in the NFL...we have a slew of them!

I don't get it either. Why do people look around the league and want to compare every Packer by position with the guy on another team who is on their way to the HOF and say that our guy was a bad pick because someone got someone better? It's a marathon, and you don't win it by beating everyone in the first 100 yards. You need to pace yourself by improving your team across the board in attainable increments. It isn't like going into a store and grabbing a pair of socks because you like the color. You need to think for a moment if you have clothes in your wardrobe that will go with those socks and if you don't, you either don't buy those socks or you buy the socks and add additional clothing that will match up properly with the socks.

 

[OldSchool101]

Is there a something better than elite? Only the elite should go into the HOF. We have awards for all of the other guys, like All-Pro and Pro Bowl. I don't like handing out participation awards to everyone unless you're under the age of 13.

I’d say for myself there’s 1 level above and that’s what I’d refer to as Elite+ or guys that stand out among that grouping.

Not all Elite players end up in Canton imo.

 

[OldSchool101]

I don't get it either. Why do people look around the league and want to compare every Packer by position with the guy on another team who is on their way to the HOF and say that our guy was a bad pick because someone got someone better? It's a marathon, and you don't win it by beating everyone in the first 100 yards. You need to pace yourself by improving your team across the board in attainable increments. It isn't like going into a store and grabbing a pair of socks because you like the color. You need to think for a moment if you have clothes in your wardrobe that will go with those socks and if you don't, you either don't buy those socks or you buy the socks and add additional clothing that will match up properly with the socks.

I totally agree @Voyageur as an example to your point. I agree we missed on Myers, I think picking the best player you can find in the draft behind our selection and using that as evidence we draft terrible is being too critical. We did this with TJ Watt and if you go back and look? I wanted Watt also as did many others in here before anyone knew what King Offered. Anyone can go back on each player and find a better one at their position in the entire draft after the fact, that’s not how you grade a GM It’s called overly critical into the opposite direction imo.

We are not going to nor should we expected to draft every TJ Watt or Humphrey All pro in every round. That’s just not the way it works in reality. There’s maybe 3-5 teams in a season that hit in those Elite level players, which infers there’s 27-29 teams that missed. Correct me if I’m not wrong but nearly 29 Teams passed on TJ Watt and that number could very well have been 31 Teams had Pitt passed on him.

As far as Creed Humphrey. If he was so good? Why did 32 teams pass on him in Rd1,2 So really? every team passed on him.. an All Pro1?? What a bunch of idiots! (Sarcasm) the bulk of the NFL waited at going onc! Going twice! and almost reluctantly were forced to take him before Round 3 started. He went in the last 2 selections of 2 full rounds and if someone argued KC Is a lone exception? KC passed on Creed in RD2 and chose Nick Bolton first. Take a look they passed on Humphrey until afterwards. No offense to Bolton he’s a great Off ball LB but which GM’s today would choose Nick Bolton over Creed Humphrey?

Technically KC also made a mistake there and this is the model of perfection we’re trying to judge Gute by? Sounds a little flawed to me. Someone who uses flawed scale measures flawed. Myers was a miss and should be judged accordingly, but some of these guys jump on Gute like he’s the only GM that passed on Humphrey. John Stossel.. “Give me a Break!”

 

[gopkrs]

I sure hope we didn't miss out on Cooper DeJean. He can play. Inthink we took Belton instead. If Belton is good I wouldn't mind

 

[OldSchool101]

I sure hope we didn't miss out on Cooper DeJean. He can play. Inthink we took Belton instead. If Belton is good I wouldn't mind

I was surprised at the time that Dejean wasn’t Drafted in Day1. In my Mocks I didn’t ever wait past around pick 30-35 area. Most of the time when I drafted him I backed up in Round 1 to a top 30 area and then chose him. Often in interactives he was gone in that top 25 area.

 

[gopkrs]

I sure hope we didn't miss out on Cooper DeJean. He can play. Inthink we took Belton instead. If Belton is good I wouldn't mind

Come to think of it, I guess we took Morgan instead. My feelings are the same though. If Morgan is good I don't mind

 

[tynimiller]

I sure hope we didn't miss out on Cooper DeJean. He can play. Inthink we took Belton instead. If Belton is good I wouldn't mind

Different years.

 

[n4t]

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