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Eli Plainly is Elite, Wouldn't You Say?

Discussion in 'All Other Team Discussions' started by NYG, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. NYG

    NYG Cheesehead

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    Still think that Rogers, Brees and Brady are better than Eli? No way.
     
  2. okcpackerfan

    okcpackerfan Cheesehead

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    Yes, I think they are still better than Eli. Eli is top 10 for sure though.
     
  3. okcpackerfan

    okcpackerfan Cheesehead

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    pretty awesome that you are hopping on a green bay message board after your team wins the Super Bowl. I never get on other team's message boards because I think it is pathetic and sad, but this would be the equivalent of packer fans going on the Eagles, Falcons, and Bears messages boards last year, right after they beat the Steelers. Doesn't make sense. Tight life though man. Carry on bro.
     
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  4. Jules

    Jules The Colts Fan

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    I often give Eli credit. I don't get why this elite thing is so important to Giants fans. It's like Pats fans and their obsession with Joe Montana.
     
  5. okcpackerfan

    okcpackerfan Cheesehead

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    yea it is very weird. My definition of elite might be different than other peoples, but I consider "elite" to be the equivalent of the top 10% of a given field. Seeing that there are 32 teams there can only be 3.2 "elite" starting quarterbacks. I think Brady, Brees, and Rodgers have earned their spots. I would give Peyton (when he plays he is elite), Big Ben and Eli credit for being right near the top. There is a drop off from the best 4 (Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Peyton) to Big Ben and Eli. Not much of a drop off but a drop off. There is a bigger drop off from those 2 QB's to the likes of Philip Rivers, Jay Cutler, Tony Romo and other QB's though.
     
  6. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    Do I think Eli deserves to be called Elite now? Yes.

    Do I think he is better than Rodgers? No.

    It's one season my friend. Rodgers played lights out almost all of last season and most of this season. We'll see how things shake out come next September.
     
  7. GBPack2010

    GBPack2010 Cheesehead

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    You can argue he's better than Brees b/c he can't win away playoff games. Brady has 3 rings and Hall of Fame credentials throughout his career. Rodgers is the best QB this season and had a playoff run similar as the #6 seed not a #4 seed like the Giants this year. Rodgers and the Packers team as a whole disappointed in the playoffs this year but that happens to every elite QB and team. We'll bounce back. So yeah, Eli is a top 5 possibly top 4 but nothing more than that. Skillset alone, he's not better than Peyton, Brady or Rodgers.
     
  8. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Yes. By a mile. Eli goes on streaks, but he's too inconsistent to be considered "Elite."

    By the way, why are you still here gloating? Don't you have your own forum to go to?
     
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  9. VolvoD

    VolvoD Cheesehead

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    this isnt a Patriots forum *****.
     
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  10. Eric87

    Eric87 Cheesehead

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    The Packers and Giants almost certainly have a rematch set for kickoff Thursday. The Giants fans should take some time off and come back before then.

    It doesn't matter if Eli is a top 5 QB or whatever it takes to be "elite" from a modern perspective; two Super bowl wins makes him elite from a historical perspective. Especially when you consider he now has two game winning TD drives. That's pretty special and you guys should enjoy it in NYC.
     
  11. VersusTheMoose

    VersusTheMoose Greatest of All-Time

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    While I don't care much for titles and wouldn't say Eli comes close to any of those three on a consistant basis, he is however a big game QB playing on a team built to win on the road in big games. I have always liked the Giants and Eli, picked them to win the SB, and I am very happy they grabbed another one of Brady's rings last night.
     
  12. Southpaw

    Southpaw Endorphin Junkie

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    Eli has had his best seasons when his defense decides to play. He's won both superbowls when their defense has had an elite pass rush.

    Rodgers, Brady and Brees all succeed in spite of their defense.

    Eli is basically is the same category as Ben Reothlisberger.
     
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  13. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    I think Giants fans should go back to New Jersey for a while...
     
  14. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    Which one of those won the Super bowl this year? Oh yeah....Last year the Packers had a defense that certainly made a difference during the playoffs. And Brady, well he won his last Super bowl, what, 6 years ago. And his defense's since then? Nothing.

    Brady, since he became the starter he has played in 17 playoff games not including the Super Bowls. Of those he has played 5 on the road and is 3-2 in those games. Note that Manning has won more on the road in two years of playoffs on the road. But he's not considered elite.

    I am curious. Just what does a QB need to do be considered elite?
     
  15. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    You tell me. Does Eli's 2 all-pro seasons with 2 rings make him elite even though he's had at least as many mediocre years if not more?
     
  16. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    I don't know, Rodgers 2 pro bowl seasons and 1 ring make him elite, right? Rodgers has 25% of seasons that were mediocre. His first season he played 7 games and went 1-6, his worst full season is 8-8. He hasn't missed a game since he became the starter. If he not, he is sure on his way. No one considered Bree's elite until the past few years. His first 7 years in the league were much worse than Mannings first 7. What happens if he wins the Super Bowl again? Is he elite then? Peyton is considered elite by many, yet he didn't win his first Super Bowl until his 9th year in the league. And after 13 years of playing he still only has the one. Eli is 8-3 in the playoffs, Peyton is 9-10 in the playoffs.

    Like I asked, what is considered elite? Stats or championships? The ability to bring your team back and win when needed in the big games? Everyone talks about "elite" QB's yet no one has the guts to define what it "elite" is.
     
  17. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    Alright let's do it like this. Rodgers has been a starter for 4 seasons, Manning for 7.

    Let's consider regular season stats. Match Rodgers 4 years vs. Manning's 7 years. Who has the edge? Rodgers. He has been the better QB.

    Let's consider playoff performances:
    Rodgers has played in 3 postseasons, all coming after his 1st season as a starter. He is 4-2. In 2008 he threw for 423 losing to the Cards 51-45 in the wild card. Last year he won the SB. This year he had his poorest playoff performance, 1 and out.

    Manning has played in 5. He is 7-3. 4 of those were between 2005-2008. In 2009-10 the Giants did not make the playoffs with Manning as their QB. IN 2005 and 06 Giants were bounced out in the WC. In 2007 they won the SB. In 2008 they are 1-and-out again. In 2011 they win the SB.

    Winning the SB this year gives Manning the edge, but before then it's pretty even with an edge going to Rodgers because he's led his team to the playoffs 3 years in a row. Both have had clutch performances in the playoffs. Manning has won more SBs and has also laid more eggs.

    So...after all this, to answer your question, what makes a QB elite? I would say this:

    1. Consistently great seasons where you lead your team into the playoffs. You gotta get there. Who has been better at that? Rodgers I'd say.
    2. Great performances in the playoffs. Who has been better? If you count SB victories, Eli. If you count total performances, Rodgers.

    Based on his first four seasons as a starter, Rodgers has played at an elite level. Based on his first seven seasons as a starter, Eli has played at an elite level some years, and not others. This year, he did.

    Based on playoff performances, they are pretty even with the edge now going to Eli because he has won two SBs. Rodgers has played 3 less seasons as a starter however, which means that we really can't put them in a side-by-side comparison.
     
  18. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    Based on history, Eli only started 7 games his first year. So that one is kinda of a wash. Still, he has brought his team to the playoffs 5 out of 8 years(7 as full time starter). Has an 8-3 records in the playoffs and super bowls. Does he have the stats as Rodgers? no. But the question remains, and not just comparing him to Rodgers, which was not my intent, what constitutes an "elite" QB?

    Getting to the playoffs, He has done better than Brees the last 7 years and the same as Brady 5 times. In the last 7 years he has done better than Brady, Brees, Rodgers and his brother in the playoffs. The only QB that comes close. Big Ben. He's 9-2 in the playoffs and Super Bowl the last 7 years. But then many don't consider him elite either. So if you take him out of the elite QB club, what about the others? Does that make Brees not elite, is Brady no longer elite(considering he was and is?).
     
  19. mikeymidnight

    mikeymidnight Cheesehead

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    Eli Manning wins because of his defense is what someonr posted. That is way off the mark.
    NY Giants won SuperBowl XLII with 17th ranked defense. Eli Manning had to take NY Giants dow the field for a second TD in 4th wuarter after NY Gianta defense blew the lead he gave them.

    NY Giants defense in SuperBowl XLVI was ranked 27th. After Tom Brady dissected them and broke Joe Montanas straight completion record in SuperBowl putting them up 17-9, Eli Manning slowed the game down and took 8 minutes and led NY Gianta downfield to score a field goal giving defense a rest. Eli Manning took that game back and NY Giants time of possession for SuperBiwl XLVI was 38 minutes.

    Eli Manning is ELIte. He is the best QB in NFC and only QB in NFL better than him is Tom Brady.

    Eli Manning doesn't win because of his defense he wins in spite of it.

    Eli Manning is bringing another Lombardi Trophy home yo NYC thia season.

    I bELIeve.
     
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  20. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    okie doke.
     
  21. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    LOL!
     
  22. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Phil Simms says he isnt haha
     
  23. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Kinda funny, since he was calling him a lock for the hall of fame prior to the beginning of the season...
     
  24. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Can he be both?

    I dont think he is a lock for the Hall yet myself.

    I have made comparisons to Big Ben before and Giants fans scoffed at the notion. But its pretty valid imo. Clearly both are talented and have shined at the right times, and are on the fringe most seasons of the top 10 QBs. Never really top 5 but belong somewhere in the 10 area. They ride it right and they both can go to the hall without ever being elite.
     
  25. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Someone over on another forum mentioned a formula for grading players and their hall of fame worthiness. I'm not sure where the idea came from, or how accurate it is, but it makes for interesting discussion. For quarterbacks it works like this:

    One points is given for accomplishing any of the following:

    Setting a new NFL record in a stat of note.
    Earning the league MVP or Offensive Player of the Year.
    Winning a Super Bowl.
    Earning a Super Bowl MVP award.

    A score of 5 is needed to ensure entry, while a score of 3 gets you into the discussion. Anything less than three and you can forget about it.

    • Using this formula for the current crop of NFL Quarterbacks, Eli has four- two Super Bowl MVP's and two Super Bowl wins.
    • Rodgers has three- NFL MVP, Super Bowl MVP, Super Bowl Champion. Four if you consider setting the single season passer rating to be a record of note.
    • Roethlisberger has three- Two Super Bowl wins and one Super Bowl MVP.
    • Drew Brees has three or four, depending on whether you consider throwing for the most passing yards in a single season a significant record. The three are: Super Bowl win, Super Bowl MVP and OPOY.
    • The only locks for the hall of fame are Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, who each have at least 3 NFL MVP's, are Super Bowl MVP's, have Super Bowl Wins, and also broke a significant NFL record of note (Most TD passes in a season.)
    • None of the other QB's currently playing in the league today have come anywhere close to meeting any of the above metrics.
    Does this make Eli elite? I don't know, but my guess is, ultimately you'd have to say yes. When it's all said and done and you consider his entire body of work, from start to finish, is he going to be remembered more for his up and down performance during the regular season, or for performing well under pressure during the post-season? My guess is the latter.
     

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